Avatar's Favor Results

[Nuiness]

People still play Summoner? O_o

[Draylo]

People still play Summoner? O_o

Wow you have made a great discovery!

[Keyln]

I'm of the opinion now that Ifrit's Favor may not necessarily be as borked as I originally thought. Was in an assault (Excavation Duty) with a BLU/NIN and a MNK/WAR. I was using Ifrit's Favor the entire time (We won, but ran out of time before we could leave). BLU and MNK were reporting an increase in attack rounds (BLU described as having a ridill), and I even double attacked a few times in that time period.

Ifrit's favor does appear to work, but it may be very subtle, especially with 2 handers are involved.

[Nuiness]

Wow you have made a great discovery!

I know! Kekekeke.

[Crab_Cake]

No, Avatar's Favor stays active for 2 hours even though it's a pet command. The buff from the avatar goes away when you release it, but the effect of Avatar's Favor remains active. It would have been awfully fucking stupid otherwise given that it's on a 5 minute recast.


Also, Ifrit's Favor is broken; I had him out and was soloing mobs for a good 10 minutes and not a single double attack proc.

Shiva appears to cap at around +10 MAB.

Ahh I see. That's good then.

Though, I'm a little disappointed that:

1. The Favors do not work on the avatars themselves. Soloing with Carby and "both" having 12 hp regen per tick would be amazing but there goes that.

2. The Favor reduces damage of Avatars. In terms of soloing/farming, getting +2 mp per sec in exchanged for 15%~ reduced damage does not seem to be worth it. I mean I might as well stick with good old Carby or Fenrir/Garuda and just do without Avatar's Favor.

Overall, it helps in party situations but I am disappointed it won't be that great with soloing(considering I use SMN a lot for soloing or campaigning, etc).

[AoshiZ]

Some things I've noticed so far.

The bonus from the Favor seems to get weaker when using blood pacts temporarily. For instance, I am getting 3 MP per tick with diablos and then when using a BP the MP per tick takes a dip to 2MP per tick for about 15 seconds and goes back up to 3.

In otherwords, I think favor weakens your avatar and actively using your avatar weakens the favor effect.

[AoshiZ]

Just confirmed with TItan. The defense bonus gets weaker after eathen ward and then starts to shoot back up.

However, it seems that the bonus recovers much faster than the initial summoning and favor strength buildup.

[Meian]

Some things I've noticed so far.

The bonus from the Favor seems to get weaker when using blood pacts temporarily. For instance, I am getting 3 MP per tick with diablos and then when using a BP the MP per tick takes a dip to 2MP per tick for about 15 seconds and goes back up to 3.

In otherwords, I think favor weakens your avatar and actively using your avatar weakens the favor effect.

Would it be capped out again before your next BP? If not, then does the blood pact get stronger while the favor weakens?

Better yet, do the blood pacts get weaker progressively as the favor gets stronger or do they stay the same weakened state the entire time?

[AoshiZ]

Would it be capped out again before your next BP? If not, then does the blood pact get stronger while the favor weakens?

Better yet, do the blood pacts get weaker progressively as the favor gets stronger or do they stay the same weakened state the entire time?

It caps again really quickly. like about 15-20 seconds. Maybe even faster. The weakened BPs seem to be static.

[Silenka]

This is why I said the smn update sucks. It makes no sense to gimp an already gimp job further if the initial idea was to buff it.

[Byrthnoth]

If you never use the JA, then it doesn't change the job at all. Also, how could you call the option to Refreshga your party gimping the job?

[FriskUni]

Testing Smn magic skill effects on favor (for titan).
With 183 DEF, no smn magic skill gear on, and max smn magic skill merits (285 smn skill) his def boost at cap is giving me +57 DEF.

With 243 DEF, all my smn skill gear on as well as previously mentioned merits (335 smn skill total) his def boost at cap is giving me +62 DEF.

The only thing I can think is maybe it's a percentage if it's not based off smn skill.
Anyone care to math that out if it is?

SMN
274 SMN skill/303 max defense (246 base) +57
313 SMN skill/301 max defense (244 base) +57

only change in defense is when i change from relic+1 hands to nashira, which is +2 difference on nashira

PLD
274 SMN skill/527 max defense (470 base) +57
313 SMN skill/527 max defense (470 base) +57

towards the end of the +57 i was recieving +5/tick, so it's possible you got another tick based on SMN skill that i cant hit, perhaps 320/330+?
were you able to get 4tick from diabolos aswel? i'm only able to get 3/tick

running out of 10' of the avatar you have about ~3sec before the aura fades
running back within 10' you get the full benefits without having to wait for the 1minute~ build up (not sure if that was already posted)

[Silenka]

If you never use the JA, then it doesn't change the job at all. Also, how could you call the option to Refreshga your party gimping the job?

It's more being tired of SE's bullshit - they didn't have to give smn a buff that has a bad tradeoff, but they did. Even if the avatar damage wasn't gimped with this on, SMN would still be a mostly undesirable job both for the majority of endgame events as well as xp/merit parties. It wouldn't have hurt the game balance any to just give smn something good without having to give up already-poor damage output.

You can pretty much replace my posts with 'whine whine whine' and it would be the same, I don't mind, but I get the feeling not everyone is gonna be happy with this either.

[Crab_Cake]

It's more being tired of SE's bullshit - they didn't have to give smn a buff that has a bad tradeoff, but they did. Even if the avatar damage wasn't gimped with this on, SMN would still be a mostly undesirable job both for the majority of endgame events as well as xp/merit parties. It wouldn't have hurt the game balance any to just give smn something good without having to give up already-poor damage output.

You can pretty much replace my posts with 'whine whine whine' and it would be the same, I don't mind, but I get the feeling not everyone is gonna be happy with this either.

I agree. Even if the ability had no drawbacks and no recast time, it wouldn't make SMN overpowered or anything.

Not that I do not welcome this update, I mean I wasn't expecting SMN to get anything this update; but what I am saying is that since they bothered to give SMN something, they should be less afraid that buffing a job "may overpower it", and instead go all out then nerf it "if" it's overpowered.

[Tulun]

Yeah.... don't see why they need to gimp their DoT and magic BPs for Favor... Why gimp their dmg in exchange for some buffs most people won't care about anyway? Though, I bet BLMs might enjoy this, but even then, Cor has 2 rolls, and SCH weather grants MAB + macc at the same time (unless you are switching elements constantly).

I would love to see the double attack rate with War roll (boosted) + Ifrit, though. Guess you could do it on birds.

[Suiram]

For Shiva's Favor

214 skill caps at MAB+4
285 skill caps at MAB+7
322 skill caps at MAB+10


These seem to be based on the gear the SMN is presently wearing, even if the SMN changes gear while it's already up. I had MAB+10 on a nuke, then had him unequip all gear and got the +7. Although it's possible that I ran out of range for a moment and lost the favor so that could have reset it, as well.

thanks to Edari and Enilanerda for helping me test this

[Enilanerda]

After testing with Suiram on the MaB I had a hunch about Diabolos and Refresh.
The reason some of you are only see'ing 3mp/tic and others 4mp/tic is again Smn Skill effecting the buff.

With 312 Smn Skill Cost is +1mp a tick, with my gear this means +3mp total

Removed my Nashira Gages, and put on AF2 Hands, which should result in a cost of 0mp/tic due to removing a piece of Perpetuation gear... But...

With the increase of 10 Smn skill from 312 to 322 Diabolos' cost remains +1mp/tic. Meaning that at 322 Smn skill I'm receiving the full +4mp/tic, vs only 3mp/tic at 312.

Then I removed my Oracles Braconi for 317 Smn Skill, and my cost is still +1mp/tic. Making th cut off for 3/4 mp a tic is between 312 and 317.

Put my Oracles Legs back on, and removed my Smn Torque resulting in 315 Smn Skill, and cost is at 0mp/tic.

Meaning that 315 Smn Skill = 3mp/tic
317 Smn Skill = 4mp/tic

I don't have Smn Earring at the moment, so I can't be positive if the cut off is 316 or 317. If someone could test this, and verify my results that'd be great.

Just so it's clear why this is useful:
When using your Favor in a party setting, it can be beneficial to sacrifice -perp gear, for +smn skill gear. Your avatar cost can remain the same, and you can increase your party's Refresh effect by 1.

Now, from the above, it's obvious we've broken the assumed "Cap" that SE gave us, of "Lucky Cor Roll". My GUESS is that our favors, work just like Cors Rolls. If the job is IN the party, you get those buff results instead. If the Job is NOT in party, you get the lower results. Since we are in fact Summoners, Our cap for Refresh (Evoker's roll) is 4. I repeat this is just a hunch, and requires further testing. I'll see if I can get a Sch to re-test Shiva's Favor, and see if the effect is lowered.

Now at first glance, based on Suiram's test. we already hit the "assumed cap" of 10 MaB expected for "No Blm in party" but 322 Smn skill is far from the max available, I'll hope Dakpluto or another Smn chimes in with the new cap. I'm curious to see if the actual cap (with blm in party) is actually +13 MaB, when you're at the 340+ Smn Skill Range.
This can be tested 1 of 2 ways. A better Smn with more Smn Skill than my 322, or I'll repeat the test Suiram performed with a Sch, or Rdm, and see if they receive the full +10 MaB expected from my 322 skill.
If their bonus is still +10, then it can be safely assumed the job in the party has no effect. If it is lower than 10, then it would prove that we have 2 separate caps, the same way Corsair does, dependent on the jobs in party.

[Raithen]

I don't think 3 is a cap on refresh that you're breaking. The effects are just based on Summoning Magic skill. My friend astral flow burned his SMN to 75 and thus has really low skill at 75 (175 or so) and his Refresh caps at 2.

Should try to figure out where each level occurs and test with max skill gear to obtain true caps.

[ClarkSammich]

Friend just tested the summoning skill threshold for Diabolos' favor,
316 skill yielded 3/tic max, so it seems that 317 skill is needed for 4/tic.

second edit: I'm a double liar. It's 317 or 318.

[Malacite]

I didn't even notice it lowered their damage... that's serious balls WTF SE.

Maybe it's just a glitch that will be fixed with emergency maint? One can only hope anyway...

Also, I seriously doubt the buffs are based on skill. My SMN is lv 61 with only 137 summoning skill, yet I was able to get free Diabolos (with FoV refresh)

According to the chart on Wiki, his base cost is 9/tic at my level.

-2 (dark staff)
-1 (austere robe)
-1 (auto refresh)
-1 (FoV)

That brings him down to 4, so which means I was in fact getting 4/tic. It's purely based on how long the avatar is out, not summoning skill


Also, when I hit release and then re-summoned him, it only took about 5 tics to get the favor back to full strength. Now, it didn't work this way when I switched to a different avatar however this is a very interesting find;

As long as you don't change avatars you can re-summon the same avatar and get back up to full buff strength very quickly!


EDIT: Wow they don't even get their own buffs? That's horse shit. So, on top of being weakened, they are denied their own buffs. Fuck! That would have been epic win if Ifrit could Double Attack on Flaming Crush, or if Shiva could get a nice fat MAB boost for Heavenly Strike.