Xbox Live banhammar

[Rokku]

No, I actually quoted where federal law says it is not illegal to copy and give unless the value ( of the original ) is over $1000, however civil statutes and some state laws may apply. So no it is not 'definitely illegal.' I'm glad you read over that so you could waste time writing a long winded post.

It's actually in that post you hit the quote button for. Check it out, it's a good read.

What you quoted was that it wasn't a federal crime over anything less than a thousand dollars. Breaking a law doesn't always constitute a felony, I know, crazy concept.

Sorry, but a PhD in Wikipedia won't win this argument.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

What you quoted was that it wasn't a federal crime over anything less than a thousand dollars. Breaking a law doesn't always constitute a felony, I know, crazy concept.

Sorry, but a PhD in Wikipedia won't win this argument.

Breaking a federal law doesn't mean it's a felony. Sorry, but a PhD in uneducated won't win this argument.

[Judai]

With so many companies screwing their customers with bugged, incomplete, shoddy quality merchandise now-a-days; I don't care if someone can find a way to save a few bucks and get shit for free.

Xbox Live is shit anyways. Microsoft and video game companies release half assed games with a ton of DLC just to make a few hundred thousand extra bucks. On top of DLC, some games are adding in-game merchandising(Madden 10 has in-game pop ups for McDonald's, BK, Snickers, etc. which get updated more then the actual game itself [which is beyond broken imo]).

With so many companies micro managing and trying to squeeze a little extra cash out of every customer, why should people really care if a customer happens to strike back and get something for free? If they are willing to take the risks involved with pirating or torrenting or w/e they choose, more power to them. I really don't get why people get so angry because someone else got it for free. I used to let my friends copy my shit all the time, as long as they tossed me a few copies of other shit they got for themselves. Now I don't even bother to buy movies anymore because there are so many ways to just watch them for free. I don't pirate games but people who do don't bother me at all.

[Cow_k]

I used to let my friends copy my shit all the time, as long as they tossed me a few copies of other shit they got for themselves.

Except when others pirate shit you paid for, they're getting things free on your dollar and you're not getting anything for it except harsher DRMs, accidental bans from companies when they drop the hammer and inferior products as taking chances become less worth it as more people steal others creativity.

What an awesome deal. I don't get why that makes people who enjoy video games, movies, books and other easily stolen things angry either. They just need to lighten up man.

If you're seriously trying to 'bring down' the game industry.. Well, I guess that's valid enough reason to pirate ethically depending on the reason, but stop trying to pretend you're either doing nothing or even worse, doing something constructive rather than destructive. Even if you're 'fighting the man' you're still bringing harm on someone who probably doesn't deserve it.

[Aevis]

The fact is, you wouldn't have anything to steal if others weren't paying for it for you. If anything, you bastards should be praising the people who keep your hobby afloat

i own/owned every major console since the NES days (nes, sega master, sega mega drive, snes, n64, saturn, ps1, dreamcast, ps2, cube, xbox360, ps3) and between 15-40 bought games for each. only exception is the SNES, where i had over 100 at a time. this does not include any pc games, but i can take pics of the original Loom (1990) or Kings Quest V (also 1990) box and floppies (KQ5 even with 5.25'' ones), which i still own. so praise me, right?

on the other hand, i also modded each console since ps1 aera and my first copied game was zak mckracken (on 80386), where you got the floppies together with a phyisical copy of the visa codes. or the monkey island cardboard wheel. which brings me to your next point:

You're doing nothing but hurting yourself and if you think piracy isn't becoming a huge issue, you need to look around more. It's being discussed more and more everywhere.

people act like piracy now suddenly is THE big thing. while it sure increased thanks to the internet, it's technically even more difficult than back in the days of floppies and vhs. my mom wouldn't struggle to get rent a vhs, put some tape on it and press record on one + play on the other vcr. doing the same with a dvd or even leech it from the inet + install correct codecs etc...

the thing is, videogames made their way out of the geek corner and are able to make not only a lot, but an insane amount of ca$h. most up to date example is cod:mw2, which grossed $310 million on its opening day in the US and U.K and analysts expect it to reach $837 million (http://gnews.com/entertainment/Call-...153431692.html). reminds of GTA4 sales earlier this year. shouldn't those super promoted games be target nr.1 of all pirates around the world, thus not break records by an absurd level

fact is, piracy is a problem but neither a new one nor as hyped as certain companies want us to make belive. their estimated loss by assuming that each copy is a lost sale is as much thinking in black & white as teens promoting pirating as cool and not having an impact on developers. there are much more factors which influence their wealth but it's a lot easier go on mininova, enter your game name, count the seeds and put it on the table of your next publisher meeting (exaggerated). it also seems to be an easy enough topic to attract the media to hit the headlines. nobody cares for whats beneath the surface, or they wouldn't implement one ridiculous copyprotection over another, which only cause trouble for those that buy the games.

to make it clear: i do not promote pirating, as it is (imo) theft of intellectual property. i also don't give any news message credit, which is saying that x lost $x because of piracy. those might be true to a certain extend because of those who actually sale pirated copies. that's not your average torrent joe though, which is oh so omnipresent in your anti-piracy campaigns. there is also the case that someone actually buys a game because he/she got a copy and think it's worth it, and wouldn't have done so otherwise.

p.s. for OP: i'm on my 3rd xbox360 atm. 1st rrod, 2nd patched (banned, offline still in use), 3rd clean elite (for online multiplayer fun).

[Rokku]

Breaking a federal law doesn't mean it's a felony. Sorry, but a PhD in uneducated won't win this argument.

I'm really glad you responded, I'd hoped you would.

I'm just curious, did you even read the article you quoted from, aside from a cursory glance? Your overall lack of grasp on what they're talking about and how this country's legal system functions is actually startling. I'm more inclined to believe you just casually glanced over the article with Ctrl+F looking for the word "not" though. Otherwise you may have caught gems like this one

Actually, attorneys say, copying a purchased CD for even one friend violates the federal copyright code most of the time.

But Collins' attitude — that copying purchased CDs or DVDs is legal, while copying stolen music or movies is a crime — is pervasive among young people ages 12 to 24, according to a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll.

or

"A strict interpretation of the law says that if making a copy robs the marketplace of a sale, it is prohibited," said attorney Mark Radcliffe, a copyright expert at DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary. "So anyone giving a copy to a friend could technically be sued. But there is some sentiment that as long as people are only giving copies to families and a few friends, it's probably OK. But how many friends should one person have?"

Also, do you even understand the difference between the crossing of the line civil crime to a federal one? I'm going to guess not again on this, because clearly by your logic, if I steal $20 from a grocery store, even though theft is against the law, I haven't done any wrong by not exceeding $400, thereby making it a felony. Clearly petty theft isn't a crime, nor is it breaking a law, simply because no one is going to prosecute, right?

This whole conversation had nothing to do with prosecution, at least until you pulled it in as a crutch to defend your "not a crime" standpoint.

I don't even think you know why you're arguing anymore other than to make it look like you have your head up your ass, especially when you're not even making a logical point anymore. Your point is just about as valid as trying to say "If I don't get caught shoplifting and get taken to court for it, then I haven't broken a law.".

Fact is though, we're turning this thread into a conversation based entirely on a tangent. If you want to keep this debate alive in PMs, I'd be more than glad to, or we can keep at it right here.

[Cow_k]

i own/owned every major console since the NES days (nes, sega master, sega mega drive, snes, n64, saturn, ps1, dreamcast, ps2, cube, xbox360, ps3) and between 15-40 bought games for each. only exception is the SNES, where i had over 100 at a time. this does not include any pc games, but i can take pics of the original Loom (1990) or Kings Quest V (also 1990) box and floppies (KQ5 even with 5.25'' ones), which i still own. so praise me, right?

I'll praise you when you no longer feel the need to take the easy approach and almost NEVER copy games/movies whatnot. Saying, oh hey I bought 30 games but stole 300 doesn't exactly make your hands clean.

people act like piracy now suddenly is THE big thing. while it sure increased thanks to the internet, it's technically even more difficult than back in the days of floppies and vhs. my mom wouldn't struggle to get rent a vhs, put some tape on it and press record on one + play on the other vcr. doing the same with a dvd or even leech it from the inet + install correct codecs etc...

The fact of the matter is, the internet has changed everything. Back in the day you still had to deal with things like video scramblers that required a little fooling around with (even if it wasn't difficult) to get around, and even so you had to actually be told by someone else how to do these things before you could do them. Now it's as simple as going to Google and typing in "How to pirate so and so" and you'll get thousands of links including Youtube videos that show you step by step how to do things. It's easy to do and once you're past the initial set up, it's even easier as you're just clicking on a link on a page to get everything you need. People need to stop thinking that pirating is somehow magically difficult. If you can read, you can pirate.

On top of this, it's only getting worse. Out of all the people I personally know with a handheld, I'm the ONLY person who purchases all my games and more than half of those people NEVER buy games but use flash cards or modded PSPs.

the thing is, videogames made their way out of the geek corner and are able to make not only a lot, but an insane amount of ca$h. most up to date example is cod:mw2, which grossed $310 million on its opening day in the US and U.K and analysts expect it to reach $837 million (http://gnews.com/entertainment/Call-...153431692.html). reminds of GTA4 sales earlier this year. shouldn't those super promoted games be target nr.1 of all pirates around the world, thus not break records by an absurd level

This exactly proves my point. The only games that make insane amounts of money these days are safe sequels and rehashed formulas. People know what to expect and then they go out and buy them. Taking a risk on something new however is much more difficult and becoming more and more painful every day. You're fooling yourself if you think most people who pirate are going to magically run out the door and buy a game because they've downloaded it originally and enjoyed it. Unless you're a collector, which is a rather small amount of the population, you're not going to go and purchase something you've already completed.

Sometimes these pirates might be wooed into purchasing a sequel, but if everyone stole the first game, what guarantees do you have that you'll even have enough cash to make it that far? Only the really large companies that mostly churn out the same shit year after year can take an initial bump like that. Modern Warfare 2 has sold like crazy, but how many iterations of the game did it take for them to get there? How many games actually get the chance to make it that far? It's the smaller games that get hurt the most by piracy and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise (And even with the bigger games, even if you make 500 million like MW2, you still might be losing out on millions due to pirates).

None of this even touches base on the fact that pirating is just wrong to begin with. People seem to think that if you can't get caught, it's fine to do anything. The fact of the matter is, you don't have the right to play the stuff you've stolen, you don't need these things to survive and in general you're doing nothing but promoting the worst parts of the human race by partaking in the act in the first place. Slash and burn, screw the consequences, out of sight out of mind, who cares who I'm hurting as long as they're not right in front of me.

It's seriously pathetic that even after all the history behind us and the examples glaring in our faces right now that people still contribute to this shit and think they're better for it. I'm sure it would be healthy for the industry if the whole world started to look like Asia.

[Aevis]

I'll praise you when you no longer feel the need to take the easy approach and almost NEVER copy games/movies whatnot. Saying, oh hey I bought 30 games but stole 300 doesn't exactly make your hands clean.

never said anything about a rule of thumb to make my hands clean. however, you start to sound like you judge that on your own sight of justice. on a totally different note: the easy approach for me is to go and buy a game, as i actually earn enough money to buy w/e i feel required. pirating/modding stuff hasn't been a case of not enough money for a long time for me.

This exactly proves my point. The only games that make insane amounts of money these days are safe sequels and rehashed formulas. People know what to expect and then they go out and buy them.

if everyone stole the first game, what guarantees do you have that you'll even have enough cash to make it that far? Only the really large companies that mostly churn out the same shit year after year can take an initial bump like that. Modern Warfare 2 has sold like crazy, but how many iterations of the game did it take for them to get there? How many games actually get the chance to make it that far? It's the smaller games that get hurt the most by piracy and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise

i don't understand your logic here. you first say that only safe sequels and rehashed formulas make money. then you bring mw2 up and ask how many games get a chance to make it that far, as smaller games get hurt the most by piracy...while i agree that both subject are not helping the game industry from the view of a fan, you should at least decide for yourself which one is the most destructive

(And even with the bigger games, even if you make 500 million like MW2, you still might be losing out on millions due to pirates).

i agree, that sentence incl. the bolded part, perfectly describes the whole piracy situation since it's very begin.

I'm sure it would be healthy for the industry if the whole world started to look like Asia.

i'm might not have sense the sarcasm in this sentence, but from an industry's point of view, (most) of asia totally rocks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...29_growth_rate) in comparison to EU or US. i'm sure you know how bad the piracy situation in those countries is.

p.s. since i'm seeing adds for "paranormal activity" everywhere here: movie was made with a budget of $15k and grossed $9.1M in the first week in the US. it's currently over $100M (sorry, no exact number as said, seeing it in the adds) and just about to hit europe. according to this article (http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movi...vie/index.html), the very same thing which seems to kill everything and everyone at attempting to make money with movies/games, skyrocket it. also according to that article, the reason is very simple: people loved it and spread the word everywhere. the 100 torrents which mininova alone spits out for it didn't seem to have any deeper impact. that's why "might" isn't equal "does".

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I'm really glad you responded, I'd hoped you would.

I'm just curious, did you even read the article you quoted from, aside from a cursory glance? Your overall lack of grasp on what they're talking about and how this country's legal system functions is actually startling. I'm more inclined to believe you just casually glanced over the article with Ctrl+F looking for the word "not" though. Otherwise you may have caught gems like this one



or



Also, do you even understand the difference between the crossing of the line civil crime to a federal one? I'm going to guess not again on this, because clearly by your logic, if I steal $20 from a grocery store, even though theft is against the law, I haven't done any wrong by not exceeding $400, thereby making it a felony. Clearly petty theft isn't a crime, nor is it breaking a law, simply because no one is going to prosecute, right?

This whole conversation had nothing to do with prosecution, at least until you pulled it in as a crutch to defend your "not a crime" standpoint.

I don't even think you know why you're arguing anymore other than to make it look like you have your head up your ass, especially when you're not even making a logical point anymore. Your point is just about as valid as trying to say "If I don't get caught shoplifting and get taken to court for it, then I haven't broken a law.".

Fact is though, we're turning this thread into a conversation based entirely on a tangent. If you want to keep this debate alive in PMs, I'd be more than glad to, or we can keep at it right here.

I like how you took the text around what I quoted and quoted it out of context. In between all that you posted, was my quote saying it's not copyright infringement when you trade if the value is under $1000.

So you wrote a whole essay refuting what I say and I had already proven you wrong in advance. Well done?

Then you go on to talk about the difference between civil suits and federal law, right after quoting a passage about civil suits.

Give it up dude, you rally don't know what you're trying to talk about you just have hurt internet ego. Keep trying though! ^_^


tl;dr? Copying and trading for free is not a crime, though you can be sued civilly, and copying / giving for free is not equal to selling copies like you ignorantly stated. Stop being retarded.

[Qalbert]

Actually you posted your quote out of context.

[Trelution]

so basically, you love bashing poor college people that can't afford $60 games every week? Of course there are solutions, like using gamefly for one, it's cheap, and play any game you want. I only own like 6 X360 games tops, last one I own and it's not really mine, it's my girlfriend's is BlazBlue. Unfortunately, some people have to resort to such means because, like me, can't afford to shell out for so many games a week, only to possibly play them for like a couple days then stop because so many games come out at once. Of course pirating is wrong, but jesus man, you don't have to go bashing on people who can only afford college and some other bills because there are very few jobs out there. Yet some people really want to play assassin's creed 2 w/o shooting their wallets.

This post makes me sad, rage, /facepalm and weep for humanity.

Gaming is a privelage, a luxury. You are not owed a quota of new games a week, a month, or a year. If you can't afford an item doesn't make the "theft" (And yeah yeah yada yada pirating is copying. No one cares) any less wrong. If you want Assassin's Creed 2 so bad, save up, trade in, Rent, or can wait a year for it to be a platinum hit, but god damn don't defend piracy because ZOMG I WANT IT NOW.

Stay in college to get a fancy job, and then buy all the pretty things you want.

[blev]

This post makes me sad, rage, /facepalm and weep for humanity.

Gaming is a privelage, a luxury. You are not owed a quota of new games a week, a month, or a year. If you can't afford an item doesn't make the "theft" (And yeah yeah yada yada pirating is copying. No one cares) any less wrong. If you want Assassin's Creed 2 so bad, save up, trade in, Rent, or can wait a year for it to be a platinum hit, but god damn don't defend piracy because ZOMG I WANT IT NOW.

Stay in college to get a fancy job, and then buy all the pretty things you want.

or keep pirating and say fuck all the haters. i personally was against pirating games before all this, but my shit was banned for taking music from a burned CD and putting it on my HDD. they didn't care that i personally own all the CDs the songs were taken from, or that i was using the copy for personal use. so, in short, fuck microsoft. this ban was more likely to raise sales during the holiday season than it was to prevent piracy. MS doesn't care about the piracy, they care about all the money they're losing out on because bill gates is a greedy little cunt.

oh, and not only did i get my box un-banned, but now i also have it modded to play pirated games just to spite those silly fucks. if i get banned again, i can reverse it in under 20min. lolmicrosoft

[Nitsuki]

You know, after seeing all this shit talk about pirates and all, it makes me wonder how legit shit talkers really are.

Music & movies come to mind.

BTW when i meant about so many games a week, i'm talking about the worthwhile games coming out in the same week, which i forgot to mention that statement. For example, Assassin's creed 2 and Left 4 Dead 2 came out on the same day, MW2 came out the week before, Mario brothers wii in-between are just some examples.

[Trelution]

or keep pirating and say fuck all the haters. i personally was against pirating games before all this, but my shit was banned for taking music from a burned CD and putting it on my HDD. they didn't care that i personally own all the CDs the songs were taken from, or that i was using the copy for personal use. so, in short, fuck microsoft. this ban was more likely to raise sales during the holiday season than it was to prevent piracy. MS doesn't care about the piracy, they care about all the money they're losing out on because bill gates is a greedy little cunt.

oh, and not only did i get my box un-banned, but now i also have it modded to play pirated games just to spite those silly fucks. if i get banned again, i can reverse it in under 20min. lolmicrosoft

If it makes you feel good sure. And I'm all for fuck Microsoft especially with how shitty a 300 to 400 dollar piece of electronics can be made. (Fuck you x-clamps)

You know, after seeing all this shit talk about pirates and all, it makes me wonder how legit shit talkers really are.

Music & movies come to mind.

BTW when i meant about so many games a week, i'm talking about the worthwhile games coming out in the same week, which i forgot to mention that statement. For example, Assassin's creed 2 and Left 4 Dead 2 came out on the same day, MW2 came out the week before, Mario brothers wii in-between are just some examples.

Just because a lot of good games came out doesn't mean you are owed or have a right to any of them. Pick the one you want the most and buy it.

And I'm not a holier then thou all pirates go to hell guy. I don't care. Hell, pirate all you want while wearing a pirate hat and having a parrot on your shoulder. Thing that gets me are the defenses for it. Its ok because (Insert company, band, etc) is rich. Its not stealing its copying. Or in this case "Man so many games came out and I must play them all but can't afford them so its OK to steal 'em So back off Brah."

Thats my problem with most of the pirates, I don't care what you are doing, but at least have the stones to admit its wrong, but I want to do it anyway.

[blev]

i only pirate while wearing an eyepatch and rapier. fuck the hat and parrot, they get in the way

[Trelution]

While drinking rum I hope!

[Qalbert]

Body shots off a shapely wench, of course.

[Rokku]

I like how you took the text around what I quoted and quoted it out of context. In between all that you posted, was my quote saying it's not copyright infringement when you trade if the value is under $1000.

So you wrote a whole essay refuting what I say and I had already proven you wrong in advance. Well done?

Then you go on to talk about the difference between civil suits and federal law, right after quoting a passage about civil suits.

Give it up dude, you rally don't know what you're trying to talk about you just have hurt internet ego. Keep trying though! ^_^


tl;dr? Copying and trading for free is not a crime, though you can be sued civilly, and copying / giving for free is not equal to selling copies like you ignorantly stated. Stop being retarded.

I don't believe I ever made the point that copying and selling is the same as copying and giving, simply the point that both fall under the legal definition of piracy and violate the US and International Copyright laws.

You can keep attempting to twist your point and my words to put yourself in an imaginary "I won" position, I could really care less. All you've proven is that you can't be taken to court over giving a friend a copy of a CD, which was never a part of the discussion anyhow.

Grats on constantly changing your point to reach a status of "I win" though.

[Day]

Fanasse getting owned lol.

Also...

or keep pirating and say fuck all the haters. i personally was against pirating games before all this, but my shit was banned for taking music from a burned CD and putting it on my HDD. they didn't care that i personally own all the CDs the songs were taken from, or that i was using the copy for personal use. so, in short, fuck microsoft. this ban was more likely to raise sales during the holiday season than it was to prevent piracy. MS doesn't care about the piracy, they care about all the money they're losing out on because bill gates is a greedy little cunt.

oh, and not only did i get my box un-banned, but now i also have it modded to play pirated games just to spite those silly fucks. if i get banned again, i can reverse it in under 20min. lolmicrosoft

Why do you think this happened? Why do you think they did the banhammering in the first place? Could it possibly be anti-pirating measures. The only reason you think like that is because you got fucked in the ass... when in reality you're just making shit worse for everyone by continuing to pirate.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I don't believe I ever made the point that copying and selling is the same as copying and giving, simply the point that both fall under the legal definition of piracy and violate the US and International Copyright laws.

You can keep attempting to twist your point and my words to put yourself in an imaginary "I won" position, I could really care less. All you've proven is that you can't be taken to court over giving a friend a copy of a CD, which was never a part of the discussion anyhow.

Grats on constantly changing your point to reach a status of "I win" though.

They don't violate copyright laws in the same way, you can repeat it over and over but this isn't Peter Pan and it won't make it true.

Giving a copy is not breaking the law, civil suits and prosecution are two separate things, nice try trying to backpedal on your initial argument after I proved you wrong though.