Summoner's Spats Change

[Riiaider]

certain assaults (like that annoying Dvegr one) for example.

Dont need a smn for that one lol. They are good in like... Golden Salvage pre RvB /shrug

[vivix]

Does anybody remember the first episode of Heroes. In particular, the events surrounding the cheerleader? Well that is what has happened to this thread.

[Jado818]

Dont need a smn for that one lol. They are good in like... Golden Salvage pre RvB /shrug

I agree you don't need one. Ive beaten it both with and w/o a smn. Just trying to make the point that smn's can be useful outside of astral burn is all.

Either way.. Dream Shroud is nice when you are getting spammed by magic damage.

[Spira]

What plow says about ABs is true. There are many things you learn from normal exp/campaign EXP/Soloing/pet-based PTS that ABs can never teach.

In fact, the "skills" a SMN learns from these astralburn are never really used by SMN outside of BC settings. The way a SMN uses Astral Flow changes as he levels up - easy to learn by reading but less easy to apply.

Tsuko is wrong in saying that everything can be learnt from wiki, because thats obviously not true (duh, stupid sweeping statement without using modality), and its not just SMN but pretty much every job that has things about it you can only learn from actually playing it. Thats the reason why the term "hands-on experience" comes about, or experience alone, for that matter.

One thing I never really truly noticed was what Plow said. With the inclusion of Favors (specifically, Diabolos's Favor) now, SMN truly does have everything. It can pretty much fulfill every single role in the game, albeit not being of the best efficiency at it, or doing so most conveniently.

SMN maybe a jack of all trades, but its still a master of things that pretty much all other jobs cant do at the same time.
To give you an example that comes right out of the most recent update. Take 6 of any job and do ASA's final bc - you can win with SMN, but no other job, and this is but 1 example...

[Cesaria]

Some of us fossils levelled SMN in the days long before astral burn and level sync... back when explodey bombs were our only friends and there was none of those new-fangled chocobos at crags malarky. I've never done an astral burn for various reasons - mainly my playtime is completely out of kilter with the astral burn junkies in LS and the fact that since the favour changes I don't like the way the job's evolved at all.

What I don't like about the whole astral burn thing is that it provides a nice stick for everyone to hit anyone who does something they don't like with - similar to the "zomg you must have bought your account durrrrr" thing that used to be the pet insult, now it's "zomg you must have astral burned your brain to 75 durrrr"... this late in the game I'm past giving a shit to be honest.

Hadn't noticed the change on the pants but I'm generally Captain Oblivious anyhow so it's not surprising.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Tsuko is wrong in saying that everything can be learnt from wiki, because thats obviously not true (duh, stupid sweeping statement without using modality), and its not just SMN but pretty much every job that has things about it you can only learn from actually playing it. Thats the reason why the term "hands-on experience" comes about, or experience alone, for that matter.

And yet you people still cannot provide an example, go figure.

[Taruking]

And yet you people still cannot provide an example, go figure.

Will you trust a PLD who leech off exp as a PLD/WHM healer all the way from lv1 to lv75 to tank Tiamat for your LS?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Paladin was probably the worst example you could possibly come up with. Tanking your way to 75 has nothing to do with tanking -at- 75.

And as a humorous spin to your idiotic attempt at a logical rebuttal, I filled the healing role to get to 75 on my red mage, and was easily one of the best tanks Asura had to offer(plenty will attest to this).

[Ivve]

Will you trust a PLD who leech off exp as a PLD/WHM healer all the way from lv1 to lv75 to tank Tiamat for your LS?

This just in: tanking mid level EXP mobs teaches you everything you'll ever need to know about tanking HNM. More at 11.

Paladin was probably the worst example you could possibly come up with. Tanking your way to 75 has nothing to do with tanking -at- 75.

And as a humorous spin to your idiotic attempt at a logical rebuttal, I filled the healing role to get to 75 on my red mage, and was easily one of the best tanks Asura had to offer(plenty will attest to this).

NO WAY YOU'RE TOTALLY LYING. Seriously, learning how to do XYZ thing @75 is not even remotely difficult with all the resources available now. All it takes is the motivation to work the google machine and/or read various blogs and forums. Nobody's first attempt at playing their job in a new situation will be without flaw; everything is a learning experience in those situations. Your ability to adapt has absolutely nothing to do with how you leveled your job. Needs less fucktarded responses please. I would even settle for fucktarded responses that remain on topic, because this stupid bullshit about how you leveled your job and when as proof of superiority is pretty stupid. Put your dicks away; nobody gives a shit.

[Taruking]

Paladin was probably the worst example you could possibly come up with. Tanking your way to 75 has nothing to do with tanking -at- 75.

There is a big difference between a PLD who has actually tanked from lv1-75 and a PLD who NEVER tank in exp party before. Sword/shield skill and ability to time cure spell to avoid getting interrupted can only be learnt from experience. The fact that you think PLD tanking from lv1 to 75 does not contribute to the player's performance in endgame tanking already proves you know nothing about PLD.

Here are few more examples:
Hate control issue and BLM who solo BST's pet all the way from lv1-75
BST who level in exp party to 75 doesn't have a clue how to solo on BST

[Tsuko_Asura]

And as a humorous spin to your idiotic attempt at a logical rebuttal, I filled the healing role to get to 75 on my red mage, and was easily one of the best tanks Asura had to offer(plenty will attest to this).

Miss this part? Nothing about my trip to 75 taught me how to tank, and yet I excelled at it. Imagine that.

And once again, your examples are laughable; what were you ever grinding off of that enabled your tanks to cap their enmity? A black mage in a standard experience party has a tank with(to be generous) ~2,000 VE max at any given moment, where as a paladin who's been engaged to(to cite your own example) Tiamat for more than a few minutes is already at the VE cap, and making their way to the CE cap.

As for the beastmaster portion, if you truly cannot handle soloing with the charming system, its because of your inability to pay attention to mob positioning and relative levels, or because you simply have no reflexes whatsoever - the latter being something you learn in the real world, not sitting in front of a desk.

[Tzaellia]

Will you trust a PLD who leech off exp as a PLD/WHM healer all the way from lv1 to lv75 to tank Tiamat for your LS?

Haha, yup! We have one in our LS. Went from 1 to 75 in a week. Week later got Aegis, and now is prolly one of the best PLDs on the server so... yeah I'd trust him. Just because you may know sucky people doesn't mean that's all there is.

Every against SMN burns keeps saying how it brings about bad SMNs, are you saying you haven't met one good SMN that has? There are like 10 in our LS all very proficient in the job. They got to 75 fast, then proceeded to ask all they could from the veteran SMNs. We even wrote them a guide and what gear they could get and what gear they shouldn't be without.

My real thing is what do you want new SMNs to do, go back to leveling off Bombs?

[Tsuko_Asura]

My real thing is what do you want new SMNs to do, go back to leveling off Bombs?

Duh! How else are they going to learn to play their job, silly goose?

[Nirokun!]

Sorry, you can't learn pet skills from the wiki.


A BST who PT'd his way to 75 would die in a tight solo situation where a BST who solo'd would live and keep the chain

Aside from smn (and maybe bst) do you know any other job that can make effective use of Deodorize? :D Fuck smn taught me how to make a mob stop right in my face and despawn :O

Playing smn from the wiki doesnt teach you how to position your avatars for a kiting BP because you dont know shit about pathing

Reading the wiki wont tell you how to prioritize actions when working with another pet job. Several SMN/BST working together has a much different dynamic than your standard PT, akin to mages working together without "a tank."

Pet jobs teach you so much about hate and hate decay, before all of the lovely work of Kaeko and his lovely assistant and grammar-nazi Ashira

SMN might not be the best job to fill any niche that isnt necessary hatefree damage (BP>Release), but you can tailor ANY fight to include all summoners/pet jobs (BST and some PUP) in varying numbers by abusing the fact that you're essentially creating and using a disposable character to act in your stead (BP>Tank>Die/Release). Summoner is always viable but almost never optimal.

I have to go take an exam

[Tsuko_Asura]

:D

Don't worry, I edited out all of the stupid parts for you.

[Rocl]

Red Mages can paralyze weapon skills. I read it on the internet once

[Ivve]

There is a big difference between a PLD who has actually tanked from lv1-75 and a PLD who NEVER tank in exp party before. Sword/shield skill and ability to time cure spell to avoid getting interrupted can only be learnt from experience. The fact that you think PLD tanking from lv1 to 75 does not contribute to the player's performance in endgame tanking already proves you know nothing about PLD.

Here are few more examples:
Hate control issue and BLM who solo BST's pet all the way from lv1-75
BST who level in exp party to 75 doesn't have a clue how to solo on BST

Hi, I have RDM/BLM/WHM/BRD. I understand how to cast shit without being interrupted because I have solo'd a lot during my time in FFXI. That knowledge actually carried over from BLM, my first job, to all of my other jobs when I leveled them, solo'd on them, and then used them in a variety of endgame situations! I know; shocking information. Try to remain calm about it.

If a person is just now leveling their very first job, then a great deal of mistakes due to all around inexperience are to be expected, regardless of their method of leveling.

Protip: New PLDs are almost always gimped in the skills department from extensive campaign and level sync. You can't get around it.

I have never, ever heard of people capping shield or parrying through EXP alone. I don't see how it's possible in the age where campaign/level sync are necessary because this particular job is just not desired in EXP parties at 70+, and probably sooner.

In my time as BLM, I have seen pretty much the same lack of knowledge about hate control, MB timing, and elemental debuff stacking from ~2004 (when I got involved in endgame activities) to present. This is not a brand new phenomenon, and unless the BLM in question is completely retarded, it only takes a little bit of experience to get an instinctive feel for hate control.

Wait wait wait

Sword/shield skill and ability to time cure spell to avoid getting interrupted can only be learnt from experience.

FUCK I HAVE BEEN TROLLED

[Nirokun!]

Miss this part? Nothing about my trip to 75 taught me how to tank, and yet I excelled at it. Imagine that.

ONE MORE This made me lol.

Being a healer teaches you how to tank by trial and error. The shit you shouldnt do as a healer is exactly what you want to be doing as a tank. Cure4 when you know it will pull hate because your first job was a healer... on a tank, Yes, Please! When you learn the hate mechanics and timing actions to spike hate under your tank's actions, you're a good healer. After you learn how to manage that from the viewpoint as a healer, you just reverse it as a tank. I mean, tanks have so many options (I'm looking at you Paladin) when they dont need a big cure to pull hate it's just ridiculous.

BUT SERIOUSLY, AN EXAM ||||

[Taruking]

Miss this part? Nothing about my trip to 75 taught me how to tank, and yet I excelled at it. Imagine that.

And once again, your examples are laughable; what were you ever grinding off of that enabled your tanks to cap their enmity? A black mage in a standard experience party has a tank with(to be generous) ~2,000 VE max at any given moment, where as a paladin who's been engaged to(to cite your own example) Tiamat for more than a few minutes is already at the VE cap, and making their way to the CE cap.

As the beastmaster portion, if you truly cannot handle soloing with the charming system, its because of your inability to pay attention to mob positioning and relative levels, or you simply have no reflexes whatsoever - the latter being something you learn in the real world, not sitting in front of a desk.

You can't use RDM tanking as an example because playing support RDM in exp party does not teach you the skill needed to play RDM tank, whereas playing a PLD tank in exp does. What you learn from playing support RDM in exp party is mp management and the ability to multitask (maintaining refresh/haste cycle, debuff, cure, and crowd control). Any RDM who are interested in solo play and endgame tanking will have to learn the skill after lv75 or from playing other jobs. I have played PLD, NIN and RDM to lv75 and I must say taking NIN to lv75 really helps to improve my performance on PLD/NIN and RDM/NIN.

I have the feeling you never play BLM and BST. BLM is not all about throwing big nukes on Tiamat, and you obviously don't know the difference between a good solo BST and a BST who has never soloed before.

[Tsuko_Asura]

ONE MORE This made me lol.

Being a healer teaches you how to tank by trial and error. The shit you shouldnt do as a healer is exactly what you want to be doing as a tank. Cure4 when you know it will pull hate because your first job was a healer... on a tank, Yes, Please! When you learn the hate mechanics and timing actions to spike hate under your tank's actions, you're a good healer. After you learn how to manage that from the viewpoint as a healer, you just reverse it as a tank. I mean, tanks have so many options (I'm looking at you Paladin) when they dont need a big cure to pull hate it's just ridiculous.

BUT SERIOUSLY, AN EXAM ||||

Except that curing for enmity has nothing to do with tanking as a red mage which, given your example, is the only basis for enmity I would have.

Try harder.