couple arrested for theft for not paying a tip

[Pirian]

A car =/= food, I could show you a photo as well.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pYiNJ0127f.../car+cake1.JPG

Check+mate?

[510Meeze]

And where did I say it wouldn't?

You said you were going to order chicken no matter what. I claim that him trying to upsell you will make him more money. You say no, I'm ordering chicken. I say fine, but people (obviously excluding you) will buy more and he will make more money because his rate of pay is in line to with how much he sells.

Even though he didn't make more money selling you food, he will end up making more money if he continues to offer all of his customers more than what they want.

Can we agree on this and move on?

[Cream Soda]

Agree to what? I never disagreed. I never said the average won't go up and that was never my stance. my stance is that it is not the same thing as a car salesman's commission, which was the comparison you were making earlier.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I didn't read the whole thread, but the definition of gratuity is a voluntary gift or reward. I don't see how it can be gratuity if you're required to pay it. If the restaurant wants to be this petty I'd go after them for theft.

[510Meeze]

Agree to what? I never disagreed. I never said the average won't go up and that was never my stance. my stance is that it is not the same thing as a car salesman's commission, which was the comparison you were making earlier.

The more you sell the more you make? I think that applies to any sales job.

[Cream Soda]

The more you sell the more you make? I think that applies to any sales job.

A) not necessarily
B) On the jobs it does apply to, you don't make the same amount more.


Example for A), Let's say you work a best buy, get someone to buy something they wouldn't have bought otherwise, you don't see another dime, even though you sold more.

[510Meeze]

A) not necessarily
B) On the jobs it does apply to, you don't make the same amount more.


Example for A), Let's say you work a best buy, get someone to buy something they wouldn't have bought otherwise, you don't see another dime, even though you sold more.

Best Buy isn't a sales job, its a clerk job.

[Cream Soda]

But you can go out of your way to sell the extra stuff, no?

In that same sense, waiting isn't a sales job. The actual job is to wait the tables.

[510Meeze]

But you can go out of your way to sell the extra stuff, no?

In that same sense, waiting isn't a sales job. The actual job is to wait the tables.

How much you sell as a waiter directly correlates to how much you make. The more you sell, the more you make.

[Cream Soda]

Ok, so your argument was
"For jobs that make money from sales, they make more money when they sell more" Wtf kind of argument is that, this is simple logic, everyone knows this.

Also, their money comes more from their service than what they sell. They can convince you to buy the most expensive thing on the menu, and still not fill your cup when it needs filling, thus making 0 tip at all.

[510Meeze]

Ok, so your argument was
"For jobs that make money from sales, they make more money when they sell more" Wtf kind of argument is that, this is simple logic, everyone knows this.

Also, their money comes more from their service than what they sell. They can convince you to buy the most expensive thing on the menu, and still not fill your cup when it needs filling, thus making 0 tip at all.

I'm glad you finally grasped the concept of upselling. It seemed you didn't understand why the server tried to sell you a steak when all you wanted was chicken.

As for your second bit, you are bringing up single exceptions when you should be looking at the big picture. One might not tip because they didn't get refilled, or one may tip the same even though they didn't get a refill. But regardless of what happens in one scenario, there will always be an average for that waiter.

[Cream Soda]

"I'm glad you finally grasped the concept of upselling."
I never didn't know this concept. I'm asking why PEOPLE tip more and why is the tip they pay a percentage, not why the waiter tries to sell you more. I'm asking why the custom is a percentage rather than a straight number.

[Cream Soda]

For example

You pay 100 dollars for some fancy wine vs 50 dollars for some cheap wine. Why is the custom going off a percentage that your choice in wine warrants giving that person double what you were going to give them before.

If they deserve more money from selling you wine that is twice as expensive, that reward should come from the boss, since he's the one making double the money, not directly from the customer.

[510Meeze]

I think you've graduated the US, time to move to europe where you get charged a flat table fee.

[Cream Soda]

I think you've graduated the US, time to move to europe where you get charged a flat table fee.

That was kinda my point the entire time. If i worded it incorrectly, then sorry for the page and a half of miscommunication on my part.

[510Meeze]

I'm waiting on laundry to dry.

But as far as my opinion goes, I like the service in the states over europe and asia because the servers know they need to bust their ass to get money out of me (even if I am rather lenient).

[chapstick]

Terrible logic. You'd tip the same for a 50 dollar and 100 dollar tab? Same for a fountain drink, too? The point of going out is to enjoy yourself and spend money, INCLUDING a tip. Don't go out if you don't want to spend money. Where I serve, I have to pay back 3% of my total sales for the day, so if I average 20% tips, i'm only walking out with 17% (which is pretty good) of my sales. If some cheap guy decides it's only worth a dollar tip when they spend 100, I'm basically losing money by serving them, unless you count the whopping $2.33/hr. It doesn't happen too often, thank god, but sometimes people don't leave a tip or only leave a dollar on $50+ checks. It's very irritating, since there's nothing you can do about it. All you can do is hope you get a good tip later on to balance it out.

[Cream Soda]

"If some cheap guy decides it's only worth a dollar tip when they spend 100, I'm basically losing money by serving them,"

Not really. Not 1 dollar per say, but let's say I spend the same amount of money between me and 1 friend vs the amount of money a group of 5 gets from buying nothing but the value menu.

So, to put a numeric figure to it, let's say my friend and I get $15 dollar plates, and I get two $5 appetizers, totaling to $40.

The group of 5 gets five $8 plates.

You're meaning to tell me you expect the same amount of tip from my table as from their table, especially when let's say me and my friend eat quickly and leave in half an hour where as this group of 5 takes their time, chats it up and are there for over an hour just because our total price was the same?

[chapstick]

Honestly, yes. If anything, though, it should be the chatty/possibly refill-happy group that tips more, not your group tipping less just because of the time you spent in the establishment or the service you required.

[Darus Grey]

Cream Soda is like the only sane person in this thread. The rest of you are finding ways to justify giving away your money for free.

edit: Cause I seriously had to re-state how retarded it is.