Global Warmists -- Read ( Climategate )

[Cadsuane]

Well you and Tristam etc. not so much, more the pseudo-philosophers there.

[Tristam]

Maybe that's why I was always drawn to physics.

You can't fudge electrons, lose matrices, or do anything particularly shady besides renormalization.

Oh you can fudge some physics and fool some people.

http://thecrit.com/2008/09/12/physic...er-from-water/

[Xno Kappa]

Palin and her family are fucking retards. I proclaim this part of the debate done before it begins.

[Max™]

Pretty sure the catalyst is releasing the energy, and will be used up, not his "hydrino" shit.

But hey, I'm pretty sure dark matter is tangled up meson/anti-meson tetraquarks, so we've all got our weird ideas.

Incidentally, he's not being forthcoming with his process, so that isn't science.

[Howard Roark]

Where did I say population has nothing to do with global warming? Quit misquoting me, lol.

We are certainly near our carrying capacity. You clearly cannot see past a couple of decades. If we turn the earth into a big feeding farm, the consequences will be irreversible.



Yup. No where near our carrying capacity.



I like how you think you know me, have you ever lived in poverty? It's really not that great.

so how do you propose we knock off 3 billion people huh? obviously the rich will have to do it (according to you) as the poor keep on popping out more babies than they can care for

it's 2009, you're tryin to tell me we couldn't come up with a decent solution in 40 years? people like you scare me

[Gwynplaine]

Heavencloud, you're just mouthing the same old Malthusian notions that have been swished and spat out for decades. The population is supposedly increasing too fast, which will create some kind of future calamity where humans foolishly consume the last specks of "resources" before falling into a pit of mass starvation and death.

Sadly, just like all the forgotten apocalypse predictors before them the world doesn't end. Bummer! But all that fail can't seem to vindicate Malthus. (See this great article: Too many people? No, too many Malthusians)

Whether you intend it or not, those kinds of notions really just stem from a very cynical view of mankind coupled with a poor imagination. Cut through all the tedious arguing and that's really all it is. That cynicism is unfounded. The human mind is the ultimate resource. As long as there's enough freedom to put thought into action there will always be new and better ways to do things in the future.

Ironically however, their prediction of mass starvation could potentially become a self fulfilling prophecy if the answer to "Climate Change" is to saddle the world with so much restrictions and debt no country can bear the result.

[Beckwin]

...and then gwynplaine takes it too far in the other direction.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Do you libs believe if we enact cap and tax legislation it won't drastically affect the economy in a negative way? Or do you think it will and you just don't care?

[Linliel]

Do you libs believe if we enact cap and tax legislation it won't drastically affect the economy in a negative way? Or do you think it will and you just don't care?

Let's throw out the question of whether CC is going to happen at all, and for sake of argument say that we know it absolutely will happen, what would your solution be?

[Demosthenes11]

Do you libs believe if we enact cap and tax legislation it won't drastically affect the economy in a negative way? Or do you think it will and you just don't care?

so which are you saying,
a) the companies will spend too much to be able to pollute and they can't survive because they are spending so much
or
b) the companies will shut down because they can't pollute

Honestly if an industry relies on polluting way past healthy standards, they shouldn't exist anyways

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

so which are you saying,
a) the companies will spend too much to be able to pollute and they can't survive because they are spending so much
or
b) the companies will shut down because they can't pollute

Honestly if an industry relies on polluting way past healthy standards, they shouldn't exist anyways

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking whether (1) liberals don't think cap and tax will hurt the economy, thus its ok or (2) they think it will hurt the economy and it doesn't matter

[Kuya]

Cap and Trade has a slew of over relevant problems unrelated to your abstract generalizations.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Gotcha, so whether it is "bad for the economy" is irrelevant.

[Linliel]

So how would you deal with it swamp?

[Kuya]

Gotcha, so whether it is "bad for the economy" is irrelevant.

lol

[Kuya]

TV is bad for your kids.

[Kuya]

Don Quijote should stop reading books because books are bad for you.

[Cadsuane]

I like when people bring up the economy and think its success is measured dollar signs as opposed to consumer welfare.

[Kuya]

I also like it when they bring up loaded questions without being specific and expect to be taken seriously.

[Leif]

Cap & Trade:

Great. So we're considering shutting down the western world's economy because of some phony science. Okay, let's take that and break it down.

Do we need it?
If you are considering evidence objectively the answer is an unequivocal "no".

But, if by some reason you think the planet will die and we do pass cap and trade, let's look at what it ACTUALLY does.


Well, for one, it decreases how much CO2 is produced as a country. This means that companies who want to produce more CO2 than they are allotted have to purchase credits from companies who under produce. This raises prices consumers will have to pay for a wide variety of items. Okay. Great. So you've accomplished cutting our CO2 emissions and you can live with a slumping economy.

Now, does cutting the USA's CO2 actually help the world get better?

Well, obviously not. Countries like India and China, where:
1) they have made it clear that they are not going to shut down their economies because of the climate.
2) only 20% of their countries believe in man-made global warming

So, as those two countries simply pick up the slack, as there is now a greater demand for goods that have either been reduced in quantity or increased in price, so people buy them from India. More people buy them from India and China, the more is manufactured in India and China, the more pollution and CO2 they create.


Ta da~ it doesn't do anything to help the global warming problem. It sure succeeds in weakening the United States, though.


If you still believe that the world is coming to an end, please explain to me what you think you can do to stop it.