Windower v4 Development - Which plugins are *required*?

[Narol]

No, it still crashes if you don't unload your plugins even if your Windower folder is nowhere near your FFXI folder.

[Khajit]

I thought the crash on shutdown was figured out. Being that it was an issue of where the windower folder was. Solution was move the windower folder out of the ffxi/playonline associated folders.

My windower isnt anywhere NEAR there so that's obviously not the reason it happens in my case.

[Luger]

You may not think the changes are revolutionary because you really like spellcast and it is more important than any other changes, but that doesn't make v.4 any less revolutionary. A simple comparison between what we have now and what v.4 could be pretty much locks up how great it could be.

Some people don't like using Windower at all. People fear change. I get that. You are just doing what reactionaries always do. Downplay the benefits and defend the status quo. That's fine, you don't think that those things are important, but at some point a lot of people said that about Windower, and then Spellcast.

I think you're interpreting what people are saying the wrong way. It has nothing at all to do with being reactionary or fearing change. Its about what works for what I'm doing.

Now Windower 4 is probably gonna be a lot purtier and shinier, and that's cool. I'll definitely download it and try it because purty, shiny stuff is cool. But the bottomline is always going to be: Which is more convenient for me to use day-to-day? I'm not a mage, what I use spellcast for is about as basic as it gets, but its convenient. I admit I'm not up to speed on all of what's to be expected from Windower 4, but none of those things on your blog post are of much use to me outside of an "oh, that'd kind of neat, I guess" reaction.

Calling it "revolutionary" before you see it or what features it will have is overstating the case a bit much just yet, I think. Vista was revolutionary compared to XP too, but for a sizeable chunk of people it didn't mean giving up XP was worth the shift.

Anyway, relevent to the thread:

Recast
Distance
TParty
some reasonable approximation of spellcast

[Nightfyre]

I think you're interpreting what people are saying the wrong way. It has nothing at all to do with being reactionary or fearing change. Its about what works for what I'm doing.

Now Windower 4 is probably gonna be a lot purtier and shinier, and that's cool. I'll definitely download it and try it because purty, shiny stuff is cool. But the bottomline is always going to be: Which is more convenient for me to use day-to-day? I'm not a mage, what I use spellcast for is about as basic as it gets, but its convenient. I admit I'm not up to speed on all of what's to be expected from Windower 4, but none of those things on your blog post are of much use to me outside of an "oh, that'd kind of neat, I guess" reaction.

Calling it "revolutionary" before you see it or what features it will have is overstating the case a bit much just yet, I think. Vista was revolutionary compared to XP too, but for a sizeable chunk of people it didn't mean giving up XP was worth the shift.

Thank you. This. There's no fear of change involved, only a sense of being underwhelmed because it's been called revolutionary but nobody's actually explained how any of the new features that have been talked about are really all that revolutionary.

[Khamsin]

Personally, I'm lazy. I'll use what I have until all the "required" plugins people mention in this thread no longer work for me. Then I'll switch.

Why are you concerned about getting people to switch? Just work on it, add features, and eventually people will switch sooner or later. If you want people to switch to get a better basis for testing and improving it faster, then say so and I'm sure there's plenty of early adopters who will switch to a less developed platform and give you their feedback.

[ringthree]

Thank you. This. There's no fear of change involved, only a sense of being underwhelmed because it's been called revolutionary but nobody's actually explained how any of the new features that have been talked about are really all that revolutionary.

Dude, you didn't get that I was joking you like two pages ago. /facepalm

Of course it is going to suck if it doesn't do what we want it to, but the complaints I was answering were about not wanting a new interface.

If you look at the links for my blog and Azaril's blog you will see the stuff he was working on was pretty cool. This information has been around for almost a year.

[byte]

Cancel <-- Not sure this is very popular.. but it's VERY important to me
Distance
LightLuggage
Yarnball
ExpWatch

[Nightfyre]

Dude, you didn't get that I was joking you like two pages ago. /facepalm

The above post was directed at you and only you and was made for the sole purpose of continuing our prior discussion.

If you look at the links for my blog and Azaril's blog you will see the stuff he was working on was pretty cool.

I looked all that up before I posted the first time. My response stands. Is it "pretty cool"? You find it so, obviously... Me? Not so much. I've already explained my reasoning.

Still waiting for an explanation on how any of this constitutes a revolutionary change.

[Deemos]

No, it still crashes if you don't unload your plugins even if your Windower folder is nowhere near your FFXI folder.

Does /unloadall works with that? If so, meh, didn't know <.<

[Narol]

Pretty much yeah. I just do //unloadall -> /shutdown myself and it doesn't crash.

[nitsuj]

Why are you concerned about getting people to switch?

Not concerned really, just curious.

3.4x doesn't work on my machine, something to do with Direct X and drivers I think... (onboard video here). So I've already been using 4.0 as my daily windower for about 2 weeks.

I know what *I* feel it's missing.... but I was curious what other people would think.

[Ezhno]

It's probably been said over a thousand times in this thread, but if it doesn't support Spellcast I am not going to touch it more than the first-time-let's-see-what-this-baby-can-do run.

[Spagnutty]

I didn't really think about it until somebody else mentioned it, but SSOrganizer is subtle but very nice to have as well.


PS: Please give us a new spellcast that uses Lua scripts instead of xml. Simple tables for the gear sets, and a function (or functions) that we fill with logic for the rules.

[nitsuj]

I didn't really think about it until somebody else mentioned it, but SSOrganizer is subtle but very nice to have as well.


PS: Please give us a new spellcast that uses Lua scripts instead of xml. Simple tables for the gear sets, and a function (or functions) that we fill with logic for the rules.

this. x2. SSOrganizer won't be a plugin, but built into the core.

spellcast will be lua, if/when it's implemented.

It's probably been said over a thousand times in this thread, but if it doesn't support Spellcast I am not going to touch it more than the first-time-let's-see-what-this-baby-can-do run.

Sadly, there are going to be quite a few people in this camp. I thought I would be one of them, but... I've learned to live without it. But I recognize the value of spellcast and will have to eventually tackle the project.

Or we can hope Aikar takes it on as his v4 personal project...

[Spagnutty]

^ Wonderful news.

[Skjie]

I have a few questions. Is Azaril off of V.4 now? Are you working from what Azaril has already started or are you starting new? Do we have a time line for V.4 release (I know this is a dangerous thing to ask, because even a general idea will be turned into an iron deadline by some)? What features do YOU (nitsuj) want to work on for V.4?

Most importantly, will you be providing all of the features that Azaril had promised?

I'm also very curious about this as well.

As for plugins, spellcast, distance, recast and yarnball are my must haves. (Also plastic surgeon to make up for the only mistake I ever made: not being Elvaan Female)

[Onorgul]

Of course it is going to suck if it doesn't do what we want it to, but the complaints I was answering were about not wanting a new interface.

I can't see why you're so hyped about this, ignoring that there's a high probability of it never coming anywhere close to functional an released. What the features you're gushing about largely amount to is overlaying a WoW-type interface. That's wonderful if you're one of those strange people who insists on using a mouse and keyboard, but most people I know have a controller. The thing I miss above all else when I've gone to play WoW or, for instance, Dragon Age: Origins lately, is controller support. It's so much more comfortable.

Really, though, it's mostly just a function of being a rather old game. Having become very familiar with the control scheme in Super Mario Bros., I'm not really going to wet myself if someone introduced a patch for SMB that allowed me to control Mario through the same old game by clenching my buttocks and flexing my toes. I'll learn a new set of controls for a new game, but even changing my UI in WoW leads to more frustration than not as I have to spend upwards of a couple weeks reteaching myself familiar controls.

[Theraven]

For me the bare minimum would be:

TParty
Recast
Distance
Yarnball
Lightluggage

Those are all I really use anyways, with the occasional Expwatch.

edit: forgot to add, this isn't a plugin but windower macros (with text files) are a must-have. I don't use spellcast and don't really want to but windower macros are awesome.

[Duber]

I use a lot more plugings but the only I would consider a must for moving to 4 would be spellcast, recast and distance.

Also, compatibility with linux would be badass.

[Ezhno]

Sadly, there are going to be quite a few people in this camp. I thought I would be one of them, but... I've learned to live without it. But I recognize the value of spellcast and will have to eventually tackle the project.

Or we can hope Aikar takes it on as his v4 personal project...

It's really an issue of people being too used to the kind of optimization you can perform with spellcast, all without the further aggravation to my carpal tunnel, especially if you're a freak like me about gear swapping. I really have nothing against the project, and new features (whether or not I plan on using them fully) are always welcome and valuable contributions to a project like Windower.

I have tried the beta and I really love the design. It's much cleaner looking, and to be honest the floating text format slapped over the original FFXI UI you see in the current Windower looks rather messy, whether it be on ExpWatch or Recast or what have you. The notion that we can have a more integrated natural looking UI that incorporates the plugins we've come to expect and abuse from Windower is extremely exciting to me, but at the same time I don't think there are many hardcore spellcasters who will be willing to make the leap without their xml (or lua).