Hunts and Evolith Discussion

[Shamaya]

Not gonna lie, Pchan was clearly winning this one from a page ago and I'm not surprised to see he still is on this page.

Anyway, I guess this is worth looking at,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...g?t=1260797765

Had it in synergy thread but maybe not everyone that's reading here will be checking there, and some might be interested. This evolith was off poisonhand, as mentioned in the thread previously.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/4...1214125423.png

This is the best and only contribution to come out of France in God knows how long.

[Virtuous Saint]

Not gonna lie, Pchan was clearly winning this one from a page ago and I'm not surprised to see he still is on this page.

Anyway, I guess this is worth looking at,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...g?t=1260797765

Had it in synergy thread but maybe not everyone that's reading here will be checking there, and some might be interested. This evolith was off poisonhand, as mentioned in the thread previously.

This is the best and only contribution to come out of France in God knows how long.

No, he wasn't, if you think that I feel bad for you lmao. He is like a retard you feed chocolate, he will believe anything, just keep feeding him. He believes things posted on wiki (as delicate as macc and magic evasion).

[Virtuous Saint]

There is you fucktard.

Link please.

[Virtuous Saint]

[QUOTE=pchan;3315334]No you can't because noone can throw 50,000-100,000 nukes to be able to distingusih. Hell, people only realised recently that crit% can only take integer values as well as hit rate, which was only possible due to mobs in sea not attacking you. Due to the fact that spells have a long recast it is impossible to test this, so you are the one that needs to think harder.




No, the augment system is retarded, I never said it was good ; You smoked it just like you smoke the non elemental AV's meteor bullshit.




I don't want to play with you, I never mentioned anywhere meteor beeing non elemental, you might want to check or read what I post before having an argument with me.
if you think Mijin is, have you tested that? Have you ever even seen Mijin resist?

I'm not superman and cannot test everything, i'm just reporting the description of the job ability on wiki, which mentions it being non elemental. Wiki is not the best reliable source of info, but then again, BG is even less, you just have to see the nerds' posts above.



The data is here, read the wiki, there are link to data from blogger and an openoffice data sheet from me.



You are a moron.

Yep just as I expect, I almost laughed until I cried, but hey, thank you for that.

[Taruking]

- 250 fire resist to resist 50% of the time.
- 295 fire resist to resist 95% of the time, which is cap.
- 160 fire resist to resist 10% of the time.
- anything less than 150 doesn't give you more resist since you are at lower cap (5%).

Question #1 - Didn't you just slap your own face by saying elemental resist didn't work by tier?

Question #2 - Magic evasion doesn't work like elemental resist, if you build your arguement around information from Wiki:
- MA ≤ ME-90; p = 5
- ME-90 ≤ MA ≤ ME; p = 50-0.5*(ME-MA)
- ME ≤ MA ≤ ME+45; p = 50+(MA-ME)
- ME+45 ≤ MA p = 95
ME = magic evastion, MA = magic accuracy, p = magic hit rate (i.e. full damage)

At first glance the two tables look similar, however between the two end caps, adding additional magic evasion does affect magic resist rate whereas adding more elemental resistance will not influence magic resist until next tier is reached.

[Tezz]

Wow, i just received the exact same Evolith from Atkorkamuy that i did the first time i killed him. (few pages back).

Same item:

Blue Magic Water- "Magic attack bonus +2"
<Ice, Empty Triangle(up), 4>


was surprised & disappointed at the same time (aka SE). Such BS lol.

[NynJa]

Wow, i just received the exact same Evolith from Atkorkamuy that i did the first time i killed him. (few pages back).

was surprised & disappointed at the same time (aka SE). Such BS lol.

Are you disapointed you got the same strength evolith (MAB+2), or the fact that you got the same type of evolith (Blue magic water element)?

[Nicholette]

If players have, say 225 base magic evasion (wiki is reporting this, idk how the person got it but it doesn't really matter as the only numbers that matter are acc-evasion), and Tiamat has 250 more magic accuracy incl. level diff (total 475), then you need

- 250 fire resist to resist 50% of the time.
- 295 fire resist to resist 95% of the time, which is cap.
- 160 fire resist to resist 10% of the time.
- anything less than 150 doesn't give you more resist since you are at lower cap (5%).

What you are probably experiencing is that under 250 fire resist (=under Tiamat's magic accuracy), magic evasion is twice less efficient than above 250, which is due to the fact that magic accuracy is twice as good above 50% landing rate than under.

If that's how it functions it was probably me getting hit for like 300, 300, 50, 50, 300, 50, 300, 50 then getting a small piece like tarasque mitts and it looking near the same and then perhaps after I got Cerb bow and mantle it started looking like 50, 50, 50, 50, 300, 50, 50, 50. So the difference, accompanied by varying values from rampart, created a feeling that I was tiered in the reduction. I thought I remembered a thread or a person telling me about tiers but it's been well over a year since I tanked Tia, seen the damage values, and had those discussions.

[Jeryhn]

It's a french SS but it mean: Dark Enfeebling Magic (sleep, drain, aspir, etc...): Casting Time -6%.

It wouldn't be affecting Drain or Aspir, as those are considered Dark Magic spells.

Dark-elemental enfeebling magic would be Sleep, Sleepga, Dispel.
Would be handy for Sleepga certainly.

[TummieGaruda]

Back on topic...

Has anyone been able to etch a pattern on any guns that Corsair can use? Wiki has a list started but there isn't much on it.

[Karbuncle]

Well i've tried a lot of monsters and so far gotten a lot of junk... so i'm done testing unknown Evolith for the one i want.

Has anyone found "Dagger Weaponskill: ???" Yet?

[Hadriel]

So... Someone on otherwiki has reported that ignamoth hunt gives Archery Weaponskill: TP bonus +6%, but they don't give an element, a shape or a size for it. Can anyone POIDH this please?

[pchan]

In spoiler tags because it's not about evoliths

Spoiler: show

if you think Mijin is, have you tested that? Have you ever even seen Mijin resist?

Read the page on the wiki about mijin gakure, it's described as non elemental magic that is subject to resists. If you want to have an argument with someone go on the wiki and find whoever stated this, which is not me, but stop attacking me.

It's pretty obvious at this point that you only want to talk shit about me because you are a little butthurt that I know more about magic accuracy than you. You comment about magic accuracy not being affected by wether or not you are under 50% hit rate totally confirms that you are ignorant. This has been described on Robonsto's blog like 2 years ago, after a JP taru threw like 7,000 nukes on an ice elemental IIRC, and then reported on BG by Kaeko I think. You are 2 years late. Stop insulting the persons (incl. me, but several others) that spent lieke hundred of hours nuking mobs just to understand this part of the game's mechanics.

Question #1 - Didn't you just slap your own face by saying elemental resist didn't work by tier?

Question #2 - Magic evasion doesn't work like elemental resist, if you build your arguement around information from Wiki:
- MA ≤ ME-90; p = 5
- ME-90 ≤ MA ≤ ME; p = 50-0.5*(ME-MA)
- ME ≤ MA ≤ ME+45; p = 50+(MA-ME)
- ME+45 ≤ MA p = 95
ME = magic evastion, MA = magic accuracy, p = magic hit rate (i.e. full damage)

At first glance the two tables look similar, however between the two end caps, adding additional magic evasion does affect magic resist rate whereas adding more elemental resistance will not influence magic resist until next tier is reached.

You know what ? Just go away. I know what the wiki formula means because I'm the one that made the articles about magic eva and magic hit rate. In the previous page, you mentioned that magic accuracy is not the equivalent of elemental resists because, according to you, elemental resists work by tiers. Yes getting Resisted on elemental magic can bring 1/1, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 resist, but this has nothing to do with the discussion. What you clearly meant was that "stacking elemental resists on gears/from barspells" implies a tiered resist% just like stacking dex implies a tiered critical hit rate%. It's not correct, adding 2 fire elemental resist will always add to your resist% statistically. In some case it's 1% resist rate in some other case it's +2%.

At first glance the two tables look similar, however between the two end caps, adding additional magic evasion does affect magic resist rate whereas adding more elemental resistance will not influence magic resist until next tier is reached.

I have a hard time understanding what you mean. What tiers are you talking about ? The only thing that magic accuracy or elemental resists affects is the rate p of non resisted spells. It has no direct influence on the rate of 1/2 resists or 1/4, 1/8 w/e. You can be very well in a situation where adding 1 magic accuracy increases the rate of 1/2 resists as well as in a situation where adding 1 magic accuracy decreases this same rate. For example if you are at 45% landing rate, adding 10 magic accuracy brings your landing rate to p=0.50. But the rate of 1/2 resist is p*(1-p) so the rate of 1/2 resist increased from 24.75% to 25%. On the other hand if your base landing rate is 0.50, and if you add 10 magic accuracy, p is now 0.60 and the rate of 1/2 resist decreased from 25% to 24%.

If players have, say 225 base magic evasion (wiki is reporting this, idk how the person got it but it doesn't really matter as the only numbers that matter are acc-evasion), and Tiamat has 250 more magic accuracy incl. level diff (total 475), then you need

- 250 fire resist to resist 50% of the time.
- 295 fire resist to resist 95% of the time, which is cap.
- 160 fire resist to resist 10% of the time.
- anything less than 150 doesn't give you more resist since you are at lower cap (5%).

What you are probably experiencing is that under 250 fire resist (=under Tiamat's magic accuracy), magic evasion is twice less efficient than above 250, which is due to the fact that magic accuracy is twice as good above 50% landing rate than under.

If that's how it functions it was probably me getting hit for like 300, 300, 50, 50, 300, 50, 300, 50 then getting a small piece like tarasque mitts and it looking near the same and then perhaps after I got Cerb bow and mantle it started looking like 50, 50, 50, 50, 300, 50, 50, 50. So the difference, accompanied by varying values from rampart, created a feeling that I was tiered in the reduction. I thought I remembered a thread or a person telling me about tiers but it's been well over a year since I tanked Tia, seen the damage values, and had those discussions.

I just realised that the number I gave are wrong because I mixed tiamat's landing rate and your own resist rate. It should be read as :

If tiamat has +200 magic accuary you need

- 200 fire resist to resist 50% of the time.
- 290 fire resist to resist 95% of the time, which is cap.
- 155 fire resist to resist 5% of the time, anything lower has no effect.

[Virtuous Saint]

In spoiler tags because it's not about evoliths

Spoiler: show

Read the page on the wiki about mijin gakure, it's described as non elemental magic that is subject to resists. If you want to have an argument with someone go on the wiki and find whoever stated this, which is not me, but stop attacking me.

It's pretty obvious at this point that you only want to talk shit about me because you are a little butthurt that I know more about magic accuracy than you. You comment about magic accuracy not being affected by wether or not you are under 50% hit rate totally confirms that you are ignorant. This has been described on Robonsto's blog like 2 years ago, after a JP taru threw like 7,000 nukes on an ice elemental IIRC, and then reported on BG by Kaeko I think. You are 2 years late. Stop insulting the persons (incl. me, but several others) that spent lieke hundred of hours nuking mobs just to understand this part of the game's mechanics.




You know what ? Just go away. I know what the wiki formula means because I'm the one that made the articles about magic eva and magic hit rate. In the previous page, you mentioned that magic accuracy is not the equivalent of elemental resists because, according to you, elemental resists work by tiers. Yes getting Resisted on elemental magic can bring 1/1, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 resist, but this has nothing to do with the discussion. What you clearly meant was that "stacking elemental resists on gears/from barspells" implies a tiered resist% just like stacking dex implies a tiered critical hit rate%. It's not correct, adding 2 fire elemental resist will always add to your resist% statistically. In some case it's 1% resist rate in some other case it's +2%.



I have a hard time understanding what you mean. What tiers are you talking about ? The only thing that magic accuracy or elemental resists affects is the rate p of non resisted spells. It has no direct influence on the rate of 1/2 resists or 1/4, 1/8 w/e. You can be very well in a situation where adding 1 magic accuracy increases the rate of 1/2 resists as well as in a situation where adding 1 magic accuracy decreases this same rate. For example if you are at 45% landing rate, adding 10 magic accuracy brings your landing rate to p=0.50. But the rate of 1/2 resist is p*(1-p) so the rate of 1/2 resist increased from 24.75% to 25%. On the other hand if your base landing rate is 0.50, and if you add 10 magic accuracy, p is now 0.60 and the rate of 1/2 resist decreased from 25% to 24%.

Spoiler: show

http://robonosto.blogspot.com/2008/1...ist-rates.html <<<<<<<<<<<= exactly what I told your dumbass, I said there is no information as to the effective macc gained from attributes below 50% land rate as shown at the summary in this link^^ (thanks for playing, Who wants to be an Idiot?).

Secondly wiki information IS HIGHLY false, take a look at the AV information on there, then look at my AV information, compare (Btw moron I was arguing with you because you fucking post BS FALSE information just because it is what you think). Search for Meteor as well, atta girl NOW you see that wiki is mainly false information when it comes to delicate information^^.

Lastly, I am not hurt that you might know more, I am going to point out that you are a moron for stating information that is false however, and ergo I must know things about it which you do not. Like the example I gave, you thought you knew how attributes affect macc below 50% land rate when in fact, you do not. You called me ignorant for not knowing, but open your eyes moron, it is you who doesn't know the truth. If you are going to call someone ignorant make absolutely certain you aren't the one who is ignorant, ergo you don't look like a complete and utter moron. Also it helps to have some grammatical skill in the language you are typing in before calling someone ignorant. If you had any sense you would not respond, it just makes you seem even more incompetent, sadly.

[TummieGaruda]

Well i've tried a lot of monsters and so far gotten a lot of junk... so i'm done testing unknown Evolith for the one i want.

Has anyone found "Dagger Weaponskill: ???" Yet?

If I were to take a guess, I'd say Euryale.

[pchan]

spoiler a retard

Spoiler: show

http://robonosto.blogspot.com/2008/1...ist-rates.html <<<<<<<<<<<= exactly what I told your dumbass, I said there is no information as to the effective macc gained from attributes below 50% land rate as shown at the summary in this link^^ (thanks for playing, Who wants to be an Idiot?).

Yes you are a moron, let me quote it straight for you since you have shit in your eyes.

For example, it is known that the effects of additional magic accuracy, elemental staves, and elemental magic skill appear to be cut in half when "effective" magic accuracy or "hit rate" (the output that depends on the aforementioned inputs) is sitting below 50%. This latest data shows that the effect of INT appears also to be halved below 50% (for ΔINT ≤ 10).

here

Now this what my result gave independently. The openoffice doc used to be downlaoddable from the wiki, but the link doesn't work anymore, I guess i can re upload it. Nonetheless, I posted a graphical result of them :

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/ff.../Stone-QQP.jpg

An next the graph from the JP data

http://blog-imgs-22-origin.fc2.com/l...oundary002.png

Now you look stupid, don't you ?

Secondly wiki information IS HIGHLY false, take a look at the AV information on there, then look at my AV information, compare (Btw moron I was arguing with you because you fucking post BS FALSE information just because it is what you think). Search for Meteor as well, atta girl NOW you see that wiki is mainly false information when it comes to delicate information^^.

I don't care about AV and the info on AV from wiki, this has nothing to do with the discussion. Everything I posted on the wiki has been tested. Now quit the game, and don't bother those that still play and are figuring ingame mech.

Lastly, I am not hurt that you might know more, I am going to point out that you are a moron for stating information that is false however, and ergo I must know things about it which you do not. Like the example I gave, you thought you knew how attributes affect macc below 50% land rate when in fact, you do not
. You called me ignorant for not knowing, but open your eyes moron, it is you who doesn't know the truth. If you are going to call someone ignorant make absolutely certain you aren't the one who is ignorant, ergo you don't look like a complete and utter moron. Also it helps to have some grammatical skill in the language you are typing in before calling someone ignorant. If you had any sense you would not respond, it just makes you seem even more incompetent, sadly.

Yes I confirm you are totally ignorant. I bet you never attempted to read one of the many posts on BG about this subject. All this info has been known for like 2 years.

[Pergo]

take your magic resist discussion somewhere else. stop derailing.

[tsola]

So... Someone on otherwiki has reported that ignamoth hunt gives Archery Weaponskill: TP bonus +6%, but they don't give an element, a shape or a size for it. Can anyone POIDH this please?

My friend got this when we killed Ignamoth the other day and I posted it a few pages back.

Was light element, diamond shape, size 3.

[Hadriel]

Sorry I must have missed it in all the epeen waving, only size three... That causes hope to brew deep inside for some nice size 8 TP bonuses. Thanks for the info.

[LordTrey2]

Donnergugi
def +8 vs empty
earth ^4