Guild Wars 2: Pre-Release Discussion

[Rhyis.]

Edit, nevermind. I'm like 3 pages behind.

[Kaylia]

ok I did not skip anything lol, you do realize that you really only have to group in dungeons right? and that every single overworld event is open to anyone in the area? Everyone that takes part gets rewarded, either gold silver or bronze ranking, with karma and exp. Sorry If I am not understanding what you mean by reward and difficulty balances? please explain. Every event scales dynamically depending on participation also in real time. There is no plowing through. things change constantly in every area. so even though you might out level it, when you come back it may not be the exact same experience next time.

Yes, I do realize that, but I also realize what happened to open world content in every other games. Very few events actually manages to be epic, and more often then not, its abandonned by more experienced players.

Dynamics content may add some variety, but it doesn't mean it won't be repetitive. Killing a gnole invasion, or bunch of troll in another...it won't matter after a while. They could have 100 differents events, it won't takes long before you actually get to see them all and start thinking "not this one again".

The long term enjoyment can come from the fact that the game is just fun to play. This my biggest concern is that we all have the mentality that once you go through something there is no need to come back to it unless is grinding for end game gear. This game changes this.

Thing is, you're going to be grinding something if you play this game more than 50,100 or 200 hours.

Guild Wars is going to be a great game if you approach it like a normal single player game that can be played as a team...however, anyone who is going with the mindset that they are going to play a mmo for the next few months/years are probably be let down for the same reason they hate most mmo right now, even if this one pretend to be different.

Sorry if I am missing something about the whole balance and drops thing. I really do not understand the issue Kaylia is trying to convey.

It's alright, every game have fanboy like you. It was the same for Rift, swtor, Terra...etc.

[solracht]

Applied. I hope my luck with betas suddenly changes for this one.

[Takiwaki]

Yes, I do realize that, but I also realize what happened to open world content in every other games. Very few events actually manages to be epic, and more often then not, its abandonned by more experienced players.

Dynamics content may add some variety, but it doesn't mean it won't be repetitive. Killing a gnole invasion, or bunch of troll in another...it won't matter after a while. They could have 100 differents events, it won't takes long before you actually get to see them all and start thinking "not this one again".



Thing is, you're going to be grinding something if you play this game more than 50,100 or 200 hours.

Guild Wars is going to be a great game if you approach it like a normal single players games that is playe in team...however, anyone who is going with the mindset that they are going to play a mmo for the next few months/years are probably be let down for the same reason they hate most mmo.



It's alright, every game have fanboy like you. It was the same for Rift, swtor, Terra...etc.

Ok i get it, It is indeed a mind set, the game is just fun, to me instead of thinking oh damn not this one again, its more like woot this one again! The thing is just running around killing shit is just fun and because of the dynamic battles it really does not come off as repetitive and boring at all, it goes a long ass way in masking the grind, shifting focus on playing the event rather than the actual event, when you realize that can do a dungeon or an event in so many different ways. Coming from FF11 and FF14, it takes getting used to.

No one complains when playing streetfighter for years. or BF3 for months, or even better PSO! you are doing the same maps and the same shit over and over, but in the end its about how fun or engrossing it is. This is something most MMOs have lost.

there are 1500+ dynamic events
couple that with 8 different profession that play differently.
5 playable races with different personal story lines that also changed depending on choices you make.
WvW
Structured PVP
Crafting

I don't see anyone getting bored that quickly.

[tol]

gw2 thread rules:

1. can't have a negative feeling/opinon
2. don't post that video, I ALREADY POSTED THAT VIDEO A YEAR AGO. So again, no new news!

that should keep you posters safe now

[Celeras]

Just feel free to ignore Kaylia, 17,000 posts and I don't think a single one ever contributed anything but failed troll attempts. Bask in the glow that is beta signups, and watch that awesome IGN Conquest video again.

[Zerocool]

Yes, I do realize that, but I also realize what happened to open world content in every other games. Very few events actually manages to be epic, and more often then not, its abandonned by more experienced players.

Dynamics content may add some variety, but it doesn't mean it won't be repetitive. Killing a gnole invasion, or bunch of troll in another...it won't matter after a while. They could have 100 differents events, it won't takes long before you actually get to see them all and start thinking "not this one again".



Thing is, you're going to be grinding something if you play this game more than 50,100 or 200 hours.

Guild Wars is going to be a great game if you approach it like a normal single player game that can be played as a team...however, anyone who is going with the mindset that they are going to play a mmo for the next few months/years are probably be let down for the same reason they hate most mmo right now, even if this one pretend to be different.



It's alright, every game have fanboy like you. It was the same for Rift, swtor, Terra...etc.

To each their own really. Look how long people played FFXI leveling up multiple classes through the same camps over and over and over again for years. People just like doing stuff in a group setting no matter what it is. There will be more than 1500 events in the game at launch and more added through content updates. Will they get old after a while? Sure, anything does if you do it enough.

But with the event system they're using depending on which direction the event took when you played it previously, it could be at completely different point than you had seen if you go back to do it again. And as also been said, there's tons of achievements, unique gear and items to each specific event that you can only get from that event, skill challenges, and I'm sure a lot of people will want to play multiple classes. Do I think the PvE alone is enough to keep people playing this game for years? Probably not. But the WvW and the structured PvP will keep people playing for a while. And to a lesser extent, maybe the mini-games.

[Elrina]

I think some of what Kaylia said actually makes sense, tbh.

But the thing is, that's part of what is exciting about Guild Wars 2 imo. It's promising something different, something more than the other MMOs that have been released in the last 8~ years, and what's more, it actually seems possible that they'll manage it. He has legitimate doubts.

The hope right now is that the devs are true to their word, and that what we've been promised with the game actually happens (read: this also hasn't happened with pretty much any other MMO/expansion I know of in the last 6-8 years). ArenaNet seems to have managed to make it possible to believe them, despite the many failures of their peers over the years.

If it all works, Kaylia's fears will be addressed, and found to be unnecessary. I'm a little concerned, but mostly hopeful that ArenaNet has pulled it off. Still waiting for CE and pre-order info, day 1, etc.

[Fairy-Killer]

Dantrag, I sent a PM.

Also, signed up for beta and have about 3-4 other friends signing up, too. Any idea when we'll actually get to play (assuming we get in)? Kaylia, look up how their dynamic events work. I know they will get repetitive at some point, but they have really made it where they can branch so many different ways. For example, if no one is there to help a guy defend his farm, a different line of events will appear than if someone defends the farm. And as for Tol, number one should be specified to "Can't have a negative feeling/opinion WITHOUT RESEARCHING SAID SUBJECT." I actually came in to this thread not knowing much, and as you can see, I was not shunned. I asked for opinions and mechanics before I formed an opinion and didn't flat out say, "THIS GAME SUCKS!" and come out saying, "Oh, wait, they actually have said idea?" But what do you expect when you post in a Guild Wars 2 thread, flaming the game? Praise?

[vrumpt]

Yes, I do realize that, but I also realize what happened to open world content in every other games. Very few events actually manages to be epic, and more often then not, its abandonned by more experienced players.

Dynamics content may add some variety, but it doesn't mean it won't be repetitive. Killing a gnole invasion, or bunch of troll in another...it won't matter after a while. They could have 100 differents events, it won't takes long before you actually get to see them all and start thinking "not this one again".

The difference between every other game and this is that the others had the public quest type content just kind of tacked on. No other game had dynamic events so focused as the main form of content as GW2 does. Rift had a lot of quests and instanced content, and then they had Rifts that happened to break it up, but it wasn't the main form of content for a lot of people. It sounds like Warhammer was the pretty much the same deal with public quests, but I never played that. From the very beginning GW2 was designed with this in mind, and so many other systems changed to accommodate the style of play that Arenanet wanted to make possible.

I know for a fact though that in my time in Rift, I had probably the most fun I've ever had in an MMO doing Rifts and Zone Invasions. Even just chilling out in Freemarch way after I had outleveled the area, I would run out and help out with a rift or zone invasion boss. Its just fun to do and it was always fun for me. I was that guy who was trying to solo a rift because it was so much more interesting than doing more quests, just hoping somebody would come over and help me out. I couldn't stand going back to do normal quests, and hated that people just didn't do rifts and chose to quest instead. Thats kinda why I know GW2 is going to be one of my favorite games of all time, because they are doing everything i've ever wanted from an MMO.


As far as potential problems the game could run into, bring it up. Many of the issues already have solutions; there are only a few legitimate problems the game could run into that don't fall into the category of tech. problems.

[Takiwaki]

crafting vid, what do you guys think?

[Kaylia]

No one complains when playing streetfighter for years. or BF3 for months, or even better PSO! you are doing the same maps and the same shit over and over, but in the end its about how fun or engrossing it is. This is something most MMOs have lost.

BF is a competitive games. It's hardly comparable.
PSO wouldn't be anywhere near as popular if it was released now, the average gamers is fed up with grinding and would get bored after a short time (on the mmo scales).

there are 1500+ dynamic events
couple that with 8 different profession that play differently.
5 playable races with different personal story lines that also changed depending on choices you make.
WvW
Structured PVP
Crafting

I don't see anyone getting bored that quickly.

You can regurgitate what PR says, there is no way that these "1500 dynamics events" are going to feel unique, especially since most are going to be rehashed content.

It was the same when FFXIV staff were talking about 300 uniques guild leve...yeah...right. There is 5-10 differents template at best. I don't think Guild wars will be as bad as this, but it won't be "1500 dynamics events"

[Alderaan]

I know for a fact though that in my time in Rift, I had probably the most fun I've ever had in an MMO doing Rifts and Zone Invasions. Even just chilling out in Freemarch way after I had outleveled the area, I would run out and help out with a rift or zone invasion boss. Its just fun to do and it was always fun for me. I was that guy who was trying to solo a rift because it was so much more interesting than doing more quests, just hoping somebody would come over and help me out. I couldn't stand going back to do normal quests, and hated that people just didn't do rifts and chose to quest instead. Thats kinda why I know GW2 is going to be one of my favorite games of all time, because they are doing everything i've ever wanted from an MMO.

Totally with you on that. I think the rush to endgame, because Rift is so "raid or die", sorta killed the dynamic events in that game. That shouldn't be a problem in GW2.

Also:


I love shit like this.

[Kaylia]

To each their own really. Look how long people played FFXI leveling up multiple classes through the same camps over and over and over again for years. People just like doing stuff in a group setting no matter what it is. There will be more than 1500 events in the game at launch and more added through content updates. Will they get old after a while? Sure, anything does if you do it enough.

But with the event system they're using depending on which direction the event took when you played it previously, it could be at completely different point than you had seen if you go back to do it again. And as also been said, there's tons of achievements, unique gear and items to each specific event that you can only get from that event, skill challenges, and I'm sure a lot of people will want to play multiple classes. Do I think the PvE alone is enough to keep people playing this game for years? Probably not. But the WvW and the structured PvP will keep people playing for a while. And to a lesser extent, maybe the mini-games.

What you call "group" here is going to be "silent group" where people automatically party with each other and say "ty goodbye" at the end. Is it better? Possibly, but it already exists in other games, and it's rarely what people want.

The difference between every other game and this is that the others had the public quest type content just kind of tacked on. No other game had dynamic events so focused as the main form of content as GW2 does. Rift had a lot of quests and instanced content, and then they had Rifts that happened to break it up, but it wasn't the main form of content for a lot of people. It sounds like Warhammer was the pretty much the same deal with public quests, but I never played that. From the very beginning GW2 was designed with this in mind, and so many other systems changed to accommodate the style of play that Arenanet wanted to make possible.

What make you think it's going to fix the "long term" issue MMO have? Most of the problems come from the playerbase itself who has unreasonable expectation.

Like I said, the game should be fun, people will enjoy it for a few hours, but very few are going to stick to it like a mmo. It's going to be the same as it was for every other games before.

[Hioki]

It's going to facilitate making group, but you have to be incredibly optimist to believe that they will get the reward, and difficulty balances right. I'm sure it will be fun to plow through the game once, but people expecting any long term enjoyment are probably going to be let down.

No subscription. Putting one and one together you can technically get an infinite amount of enjoyment when your not paying anything for content added. Thus I can always expect long term enjoyment at any point or future date that the game exists.

There is also no direct path to 80. Your not going from quest to quest to quest like swtor such that you suddenly know the planet storyline before you start your new character. I don't see anyone expecting a perfect balance either. So what if an event is trivial or over-tuned when there are 1400+ other events to do? You're not pigeonholed into doing that one event for a level.

What exactly is your point?
Do feel like you've been burned by other mmo's so much that you need to be the debbie downer on every new mmo?

[Appie]

BF is a competitive games. It's hardly comparable.
PSO wouldn't be anywhere near as popular if it was released now, the average gamers is fed up with grinding and would get bored after a short time (on the mmo scales).

The point you are missing, is that all the examples mentioned are people doing the same stuff over and over again, just because they consider them fun. That is what it is all about: fun. Wether you are going to like it is another story obviously, but as some people already try to explain to you is that there are people who do stuff again and again because they find it fun, not because they think it is a grind, but fun. That's why people play Streetfighter for years, BF3 or PSO. And that is also possibly why people would play GW2 for years. I understand you have concerns if they can deliver on that promise, but we will know that soon enough.

[Alderaan]

You are correct that it's the playerbase but that goes back to the stupid mechanics companies throw into MMO's.

I personally like the direction GW2 is attempting to go. I'm kinda sick of the "i only care about my own guild and fuck everyone else on my server" attitude that is fostered in current crop of MMO's.

[Fairy-Killer]

Platforming in my MMO?! What is this?!

Since many replies since the platforming video:

Kaylia, why assume that things are going to be boring and repetitive without any evidence? All of the press had positive remarks about GW2 from this weekend and a lot of them spent way more than 15 hours playing over a weekend. That's more than you get out of $60 on 90% of console games.

[Kaylia]

No subscription. Putting one and one together you can technically get an infinite amount of enjoyment when your not paying anything for content added. Thus I can always expect long term enjoyment at any point or future date that the game exists.

If only grinding was infinitely fun.

There is also no direct path to 80. Your not going from quest to quest to quest like swtor such that you suddenly know the planet storyline before you start your new character. I don't see anyone expecting a perfect balance either. So what if an event is trivial or over-tuned when there are 1400+ other events to do? You're not pigeonholed into doing that one event for a level.

People had issue with SWTOR before their 2nd character.
Leveling a 2nd class in ffxiv won't make it more fun if you do it differently

Having different leveling path shouldn't make a significant difference the first time you go through a game. I'm not sure why you bring that up.

And again, the 1400+ figure is a joke. Numbers like this mean absolutely nothing. For all we care, they could just generate shit randomly and call it infinite.

What exactly is your point?
Do feel like you've been burned by other mmo's to much that you need to be the debbie downer on every new mmo?

If anything, I enjoyed every mmo over the last 10 years. The only I hated was FFXIV.

What make me rage is everyone's retarded expectation that are still looking for "their next mmo love".

[Arelian]

So... you get angry because people have high expectations for a game that, in most aspects, seems to be meeting those expectations?

We're sorry...?