Guild Wars 2: Pre-Release Discussion

[Vimes]

You know, (in XI) I never hated the goldsellers (RMT) that much to be honest.

It's always the goldbuyers that I disliked.

But hey, guess I'm old school. Now in 2012 all game companies are saying "you know what, it's ok to buy gold, it's not cheating anymore" and then add in whispered voices "(as long as we're making a profit from it)".

[Kuishen]

You know, (in XI) I never hated the goldsellers (RMT) that much to be honest.

It's always the goldbuyers that I disliked.

But hey, guess I'm old school. Now in 2012 all game companies are saying "you know what, it's ok to buy gold, it's not cheating anymore" and then add in whispered voices "(as long as we're making a profit from it)".

Except for the fact that buying gold gave an "unfair advantage" in XI and other games, in GW2 that's not going to be a problem. The influence boosts for guilds is the only thing I can see having that issue and even then, still does not give them an unfair advantage in terms of gameplay.

Edit: I don't understand why this concept is so hard to wrap ones head around. It's the same exact model as Team Fortress 2 and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. On top of that ArenaNet deserves to be making a profit from that type of shit because of making (supposedly) such a great fucking game.

[Tonka]

Negatives of microtransactions and/or buying gold via gems:

Buy more powerful items that are not available in game: Not possible.
Leveling faster/get to end-game first: Levels mean almost nothing with the various scaling systems. You miss out on content. Nothing different at end-game.
But if they level quicker they will have an advantage in WvW by way of more skills/traits unlocked and better gear: Since everyone will be scaled to 80 it trivializes the difference. And that person who leveled quicker thanks to the store has no advantage over you greater than someone who is higher in level thanks to playing 24/7. And any advantage they might have over you is temporary as soon you hit level cap with easy to obtain on par gear.
People buying gold trivializes my accomplishments: Perhaps. But people buy currency in virtually every online game. The same thing happens in WoW where you're also paying a monthly fee. I won't outline why putting a huge dent in RMT's success is a good thing here as the reasons are many. This would also assume that you can buy the best gear with gold. I would imagine Karma/dungeon gear will be more desirable/show off your accomplishments better anyway. With some of these big subscription based RMT-plagued games you can buy some of the best gear on the AH. Whether or not you agree with buying gold as a whole, you have to admit that it happens in every game; and as such, isn't it better to cut out the RMT?

[Kuishen]

Negatives of microtransactions and/or buying gold via gems:

Buy more powerful items that are not available in game: Not possible.
Leveling faster/get to end-game first: Levels mean almost nothing with the various scaling systems. You miss out on content. Nothing different at end-game.
But if they level quicker they will have an advantage in WvW by way of more skills/traits unlocked and better gear: Since everyone will be scaled to 80 it trivializes the difference. And that person who leveled quicker thanks to the store has no advantage over you greater than someone who is higher in level thanks to playing 24/7. And any advantage they might have over you is temporary as soon you hit level cap with easy to obtain on par gear.
People buying gold trivializes my accomplishments: Perhaps. But people buy currency in virtually every online game. The same thing happens in WoW where you're also paying a monthly fee. I won't outline why putting a huge dent in RMT's success is a good thing here as the reasons are many. This would also assume that you can buy the best gear with gold. I would imagine Karma/dungeon gear will be more desirable/show off your accomplishments better anyway. With some of these big subscription based RMT-plagued games you can buy some of the best gear on the AH. Whether or not you agree with buying gold as a whole, you have to admit that it happens in every game; and as such, isn't it better to cut out the RMT?

Articulated everything I was thinking and attempting to say. Thanks lol.

[GoggleHead]

I think people are too quick to trivialize the value of vanity items. Vanity items are basically the replacement for the gear chase in GW2 are they not?

Instead of clearing out a dungeon for that Helmet of Bunny Slaying +1, you're clearing out a dungeon for a Bunny Slaying Helmet that has the same stats as your Boring Cardboard Box Helmet, but it looks significantly cooler. So the cash shop ends up being a shortcut to "getting ahead", it's just that "getting ahead" is now a visual thing rather than tilting the back-end math in your favor so you can roflstomp everything with ease.

[Tonka]

Coolcoolcool.

Lol, I noted a specific topic theme on the first page of the general discussion section of Guru:
Specific Point about Gems: Effect of Economy Control
The Glass Ceiling Effect of Gems
buying Influence = evil ?
Gems: In-game economy and P2W
GW2 Cash Shop Info Changes
Stop complaining
Cash Shop VS. In-Game Store or How I bought character slots with gold.
Influence for gold?
Why do I need to grind gold to play the game?

And they are all "gems", so to speak. One of them is someone talking about how only a small percentage of people will buy and sell gems for "mountains" of gold (demand super high and supply super low). As if the ability to get "mountains" of gold for a few bucks would only be appealing to a few people. But I'm sure they took Economics in high school so they know what they're talking about.

[Tonka]

I think people are too quick to trivialize the value of vanity items. Vanity items are basically the replacement for the gear chase in GW2 are they not?

Instead of clearing out a dungeon for that Helmet of Bunny Slaying +1, you're clearing out a dungeon for a Bunny Slaying Helmet that has the same stats as your Boring Cardboard Box Helmet, but it looks significantly cooler. So the cash shop ends up being a shortcut to "getting ahead", it's just that "getting ahead" is now a visual thing rather than tilting the back-end math in your favor so you can roflstomp everything with ease.

Oh, I love vanity items. I will probably buy quite a few of them. But wearing a vanity doesn't show that you've accomplished anything other than buying a vanity item. And do we know if vanity items will have stats on them or will they just be for use with transmutation stones?

[Vimes]

I know man, I heart Arenanet. They can do little wrong in my eyes.

I'm just saying, it's a general trend in the industry, for years it was all about trying to stop people from buying gold; now they are all saying, you can play any way you like, it's all about freedom and player choice.

But I do think this system might actually work, if they provide enough interesting stuff in the cash shop to use gems on. They're doing the same in Tera EU btw (don't know about NA), but with an item that gives subscription time (like PLEX).

[Isiolia]

You know, (in XI) I never hated the goldsellers (RMT) that much to be honest.

It's always the goldbuyers that I disliked.

But hey, guess I'm old school. Now in 2012 all game companies are saying "you know what, it's ok to buy gold, it's not cheating anymore" and then add in whispered voices "(as long as we're making a profit from it)".

IMO, the main problem with RMT has always been when seller/farmer activities conflict with those of "normal" players. At least in XI. Ideally, a game would be designed so that, outside of intentional PvP/etc, players couldn't hinder one another. XI, particularly in the earlier years, was not like that.

[Katlan]

They said at the very start that micro transactions will not have any in game advantages so I am not worried. Not like ppl can buy xp, buy guild rep, buy items to enhance game play. I guess gems or w/e, but it seems like those will be common anyways and its just an alternative means

[vadre]

I think it's fine as long as it doesn't give people a huge advantage. I might even be tempted myself by some of the cosmetic stuff down the line.

Hell, later into the game's life if they added something like the rested bonus that you purchase and it lasts a couple of days, I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it. I enjoy levelling and I'm an altoholic so I wouldn't buy it, but lots of people on WoW tend to bitch about having to level, and when I've had new characters in the past there are distinctive levelling sections I really don't enjoy and often ditch the character in (Northrend 72-78 is the biggest character killed in WoW for me).

[Zerocool]

I think people are too quick to trivialize the value of vanity items. Vanity items are basically the replacement for the gear chase in GW2 are they not?

Instead of clearing out a dungeon for that Helmet of Bunny Slaying +1, you're clearing out a dungeon for a Bunny Slaying Helmet that has the same stats as your Boring Cardboard Box Helmet, but it looks significantly cooler. So the cash shop ends up being a shortcut to "getting ahead", it's just that "getting ahead" is now a visual thing rather than tilting the back-end math in your favor so you can roflstomp everything with ease.

Basically. Except that the gear that you can get from running dungeons will ONLY come from dungeons. The tokens you acquire to purchase the gear can only be gained from completing the dungeons. So while there may be unique looking gear to the cash shop, there will also be unique looking gear that can only be obtained through in game efforts as well. So in other words, if you run a dungeon however many times to get a full set of gear, people will KNOW you ran the dungeons to get that gear. Instead of being like "Oh, that guy probably just bought that stuff off the cash shop."

[Tonka]

I think it's fine as long as it doesn't give people a huge advantage. I might even be tempted myself by some of the cosmetic stuff down the line.

Hell, later into the game's life if they added something like the rested bonus that you purchase and it lasts a couple of days, I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it. I enjoy levelling and I'm an altoholic so I wouldn't buy it, but lots of people on WoW tend to bitch about having to level, and when I've had new characters in the past there are distinctive levelling sections I really don't enjoy and often ditch the character in (Northrend 72-78 is the biggest character killed in WoW for me).

Yeah. At least in GW2 you can keep leveling in lower level zones if you want to avoid specific zones. Or have someone sidekick you up. Or if you like WvW...

Seems like GW2 is designed to focus on the leveling experience rather than something special waiting at end-game, so if someone wanted to race to cap...I guess that's fine...but I won't be. And it won't bother me if someone else does. Doesn't really effect my enjoyment of the game.

[GoggleHead]

Basically. Except that the gear that you can get from running dungeons will ONLY come from dungeons. The tokens you acquire to purchase the gear can only be gained from completing the dungeons. So while there may be unique looking gear to the cash shop, there will also be unique looking gear that can only be obtained through in game efforts as well. So in other words, if you run a dungeon however many times to get a full set of gear, people will KNOW you ran the dungeons to get that gear. Instead of being like "Oh, that guy probably just bought that stuff off the cash shop."

Ah ok. That's slightly more tolerable, but I still worry that it somewhat undermines the incentive to go dungeon crawling. Why bother going after the dungeon armor if there's some cash shop armor that looks better? It's a very difficult line to walk, and given my druthers I'd rather they not attempt to walk that line at all.

[Tonka]

Sounds like you're looking for a game without microtransactions.

[Zerocool]

Ah ok. That's slightly more tolerable, but I still worry that it somewhat undermines the incentive to go dungeon crawling. Why bother going after the dungeon armor if there's some cash shop armor that looks better? It's a very difficult line to walk, and given my druthers I'd rather they not attempt to walk that line at all.

I think that would come down to an individual basis rather than a general consensus. Some people may think the gear from a dungeon looks better than something from the cash shop. It's also a status symbol for people that like that sort of thing. Each dungeon is supposed to have it's own set of unique looking gear that you can only get from that particular dungeon and dungeons in explorable mode are said to be the hardest PvE content in the game.

[GoggleHead]

Sounds like you're looking for a game without microtransactions.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

[Tonka]

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Lol. No. I would like a GW2 quality game that was 100% free of all costs. :D

[Solace]

I would rather have microtransactions than have to deal with rmt spamming world feeds, trying to scam people out of their accounts and people supporting them through gold buying. This takes the power out of the hands of the rmt and puts it directly into the players. I plan on spending no more at the cash shop monthly than I would pay for a sub.

[Fairy-Killer]

I completely agree with microtransactions. The power alone for servers costs a ton, and without sub fees, I really have no idea how they pay for it after box sales drop. If someone wants to spend money to look cooler, by all means.