Guild Wars 2: Pre-Release Discussion

[arus2001]

I'd be sad if they did those types of conditions. It seems like the whole "is it fun" philosophy is a serious concern to them, and the whole concept of killing something specific when it's windy out goes so much against that... but who knows. The fact that legendary weapons will have the same stats as the top normal weapons just blows my mind after ffxi. These guys just think different, so it's hard to know what to expect.

I'm just trying to get a better idea of what to possibly expect of the system since it's more than likely the path I'd take as someone completely uninterested in hardcore raiding and all it entails. I did a lot of trial weapons in XI, and while not the most fun to be had, they were at least things I could plink at and maybe knock off 75 kills in an hour or so solo for types like that.

On the grander scale, I'd anticipate stuff like, "Kill X, Collect Y, Go to Z" in some variation and combination. My main concern is just the curveballs applied to those steps and how what some might find "fun" would be a chore to others. I certainly hope I wouldn't have to collect 5000 of something with a 5% drop rate from mobs so spread out at an out-of-the-way location you maybe kill 1 a minute while risking PvP at some enemy start point. I could handle scavenger hunts if the clues are good enough. I don't mind fighting a difficult mob if it doesn't mean needing 10+ people on the same quest. Far as I'm concerned, there's a fine line between allowing alternative items to be "as good as" others while making acquiring that alternative such a hassle that doing it the other way would be ideal even if you'd hate the process.

Right now, if I hunkered down in Rift, I could probably get a Planar Hero equivalent item in about 20 days of chasing Inscribed Sourcestones at 50 a day. Fleshing out all the possible equipment slots for a specific set would take at least 6 months at that pace. The real bummer in this, aside from being incredibly boring and subject to the frequency of zone events (which are triggered via conditions like people in a given zone), is that this full set is slightly weaker than the prior raid tier (And at the moment, 4 pieces still aren't implemented). I know I touched on people being "left behind" on content and such earlier, but I'm having a difficult time believing I'm in the wrong in thinking that such dedication should reward gear of quality at least a bit better than it does. I know MMOs are all about the time sink, especially with a monthly fee involved, but I don't think your average player would be hammering out ISS at the rate I proposed, either. No, it'd more likely be 20 a day, tops, perhaps every other day or three. And by that point, I'd expect another raid or two to pop up and further widen the gap. They're also doing a cap increase soon, so the gear will further age and lose value.

I'd tried pointing out the flaws of the above on Trion's board and had my share of raid fanboys jumping down my throat for reasons most easily summed up as I simply must suck because I wouldn't join a raiding guild (as perhaps the most unpopular calling). At best, all a player of my ilk is apparently worthy of are mounts and silly items that have no relevance in combat. And some wonder why I wouldn't want to be playing with these people if I could somehow overcome the issues of my RL creating difficulties in prolonged/guaranteed play sessions. Seriously, fuck playing by their rules if they're gonna be such cocksheathes about it. But at this point, I'm just kinda ping-ponging between games due to having no real place that fits, and I'm of the mind a game's design affects the mentality of its players. Since I'm apparently not a hyper-competitive drama llama, I'm fucked.

[vrumpt]

I'm just trying to get a better idea of what to possibly expect of the system since it's more than likely the path I'd take as someone completely uninterested in hardcore raiding and all it entails. I did a lot of trial weapons in XI, and while not the most fun to be had, they were at least things I could plink at and maybe knock off 75 kills in an hour or so solo for types like that.

On the grander scale, I'd anticipate stuff like, "Kill X, Collect Y, Go to Z" in some variation and combination. My main concern is just the curveballs applied to those steps and how what some might find "fun" would be a chore to others. I certainly hope I wouldn't have to collect 5000 of something with a 5% drop rate from mobs so spread out at an out-of-the-way location you maybe kill 1 a minute while risking PvP at some enemy start point. I could handle scavenger hunts if the clues are good enough. I don't mind fighting a difficult mob if it doesn't mean needing 10+ people on the same quest. Far as I'm concerned, there's a fine line between allowing alternative items to be "as good as" others while making acquiring that alternative such a hassle that doing it the other way would be ideal even if you'd hate the process.

Right now, if I hunkered down in Rift, I could probably get a Planar Hero equivalent item in about 20 days of chasing Inscribed Sourcestones at 50 a day. Fleshing out all the possible equipment slots for a specific set would take at least 6 months at that pace. The real bummer in this, aside from being incredibly boring and subject to the frequency of zone events (which are triggered via conditions like people in a given zone), is that this full set is slightly weaker than the prior raid tier (And at the moment, 4 pieces still aren't implemented). I know I touched on people being "left behind" on content and such earlier, but I'm having a difficult time believing I'm in the wrong in thinking that such dedication should reward gear of quality at least a bit better than it does. I know MMOs are all about the time sink, especially with a monthly fee involved, but I don't think your average player would be hammering out ISS at the rate I proposed, either. No, it'd more likely be 20 a day, tops, perhaps every other day or three. And by that point, I'd expect another raid or two to pop up and further widen the gap. They're also doing a cap increase soon, so the gear will further age and lose value.

I'd tried pointing out the flaws of the above on Trion's board and had my share of raid fanboys jumping down my throat for reasons most easily summed up as I simply must suck because I wouldn't join a raiding guild (as perhaps the most unpopular calling). At best, all a player of my ilk is apparently worthy of are mounts and silly items that have no relevance in combat. And some wonder why I wouldn't want to be playing with these people if I could somehow overcome the issues of my RL creating difficulties in prolonged/guaranteed play sessions. Seriously, fuck playing by their rules if they're gonna be such cocksheathes about it. But at this point, I'm just kinda ping-ponging between games due to having no real place that fits, and I'm of the mind a game's design affects the mentality of its players. Since I'm apparently not a hyper-competitive drama llama, I'm fucked.

So the good news is that raiding just doesn't exist in GW2. The closest thing to raiding that would require some time to complete are the explorable mode dungeons, which is supposed to be the hardest PvE content in the game. I imagine that some components of legendaries will probably come from here in some quantity.

But seriously, just because legendaries are a thing doesn't mean thats the only thing to do in GW2 at endgame. Its got fun all through it. If getting a shiny unicorn bow that shoots rainbows is fun for you and fits your mentality of whats fun, then its there to go get! Don't feel like you have to do it because they said it can be done solo and it might be the only thing for you to do. It won't be.

[arus2001]

Not saying there won't be other things. I just can't detach myself from having some aspect of measurable character progression, too. I doubt I'll be super keen on PvP (especially if larger encounters cripple my PC), but I'm at least interested in I guess what they call meta events and such since similar spiced up Rift. I suspect being a completionist whore about zone stuff can take up a fair chunk of time. I'm still not entirely sold on being force-capped, but maybe getting my hands on the game in the pending BWE can sell me there once getting a relative feel for mob strengths/densities. I actually haven't looked into character classes and such yet, but that's a part of me not wanting to build up too much hype or try to carry over some kind of preconceived class stereotypes.

[Rhyis.]

From what I understand there's a maximum of 5 party members, no raid content whatsoever, and there's definitely no traditional style quest lines aside from personal story (FFXI ZM/CoP/etc missions). So your initial concern can't possibly be an issue.

As an aside; if it turns out creating a legendary ends up not being fun, don't do it. The way it sounds they're making so you'll have to choose between using your merits towards pimping your characters skill points or making a legendary. I'd imagine it would probably be more beneficial to pimp your characters skill points, at the beginning. And then after you've done that maybe think about decking out a legendary or two.

Legendaries should be hard to get... Otherwise, what's the point? Concerning yourself with legendary stuff before the game is even out is also pretty silly. It's a vanity item. Worry about game mechanics first. If the game isn't good to begin with, you won't even get to that point.

[Alderaan]

Rift and GW2 are nothing alike. Take it from someone that raiding pretty hardcore, got top PVP rank, and spent many a day farming ISS and PA's.

There's no gear entry for content and everyone has easy access to the top stats in the game. How you choose to use those stats and your ability to avoid damage will ultimately decide what you can and can't do.

[niwaar]

From what I understand there's a maximum of 5 party members, no raid content whatsoever, and there's definitely no traditional style quest lines aside from personal story (FFXI ZM/CoP/etc missions). So your initial concern can't possibly be an issue.

To clarify... there are "raids" in the game. They are called Squads and they were a necessity added for PvP/WvW in BWE1 I believe. A Squad leader can invite as many players as they like (I have not heard of a squad cap, but I assume there is one). In order to become a Squad leader you have to buy a one time use book teaching you how to become a "Commander". Mind you this is mostly used in WvW and the current non ranked BGs. But as far as I know you can use it outside of WvW as well. They want you to be able to play the game however you want, and having a large "group" of guildies doing some of the larger, more indepth events out in Orr or the like squads will be invaluable. This isn't to say there is raid content, but you could very well look at some of the event bosses as "World Boss/HNM" type content.

I look at GW2 much like I did FFXI in terms of content. There is a wide range of content available at launch and from the looks of it, the types of content will expand with expansions. We are starting out with a good set of Hearts and Events(Chains) in PvE. Toss in dungeons/explorable dungeons for the dungeon lovers. Oh and we have pseudo campaign with the Orr based events. Not to mention the Vistas, Skillpoint Challenges, and achievement based puzzles (jumping and not so jumping). Oh and you have Flags and Treasure Maps. Yet there is more ... we have Barroom Brawl, Keg Ball, Snow Ball Fights, as well as the Asura, Sylvari and Charr "mini games" that we dont know of.

Unlike just about every other game released since XI, GW2 is releasing with a huge amount of "auxiliary" content. The largest issue with any MMO I have had recently is that there just isn't enough content to keep me interested. WoW used to have this, but it was really a false sense of content because it was mainly made up of leveling/gearing up alts. When you hit 7 85s, its already past the point of being tedious to level a new character. Blizzard reinvented the leveling process with Cataclysm but that only lasts as long as it takes you to hit 60 and move on to the same old boring 60-80 content you've done and the 81-85 content you have done super recently that has zero differentiating paths to level. I love dungeons, but I do not feel like playing a game that is Dungeon Spam for Points and Dailies as the only real content.

[Rhyis.]

Thought there was a limit of 5 for PvE content. Guess I was mistaken.

[Zzsark]

Squads are pretty much just ad hoc chat channels aren't they?... you can only have 5 in a party, but not like in or out of party really matters for anything in PvE in GW2 (instances aside obv)

[Takiwaki]

Thought there was a limit of 5 for PvE content. Guess I was mistaken.

There is no limit to PVE content, you can organize by forming a party, which has a limit of 5, which is mainly for dungeons which is capped at 5. You can form squads to help communication in WvW, you can come and leave as you please, but its not necessary. In non dungeon PVE there is no need to "join" anything but just be there and get involved. Squads are basically there for tactical reasons and is really just an enhanced chat channel with mapping tools etc.

Remember there is no claiming or camping of mobs, everything is shared, you do not need to be in a party for anything at all if you want except for dungeons.

All your combos and aoes work automatically with other players around you but if you are partied it will overide and target them, there is a max of 5 people that aoe buffs will hit.

There are no "Raids", . . Its definitely not the same as what we would call raids, but there is content for large groups for sure, its just not instanced, and its just not similar enough to call it a raid so I have to disagree there.

GW2 trounces FFXI in terms of launch content by far.

Also just some advice, leave the entire level to max level to do endgame mindset at bay, content in GW2 does not get out-leveled, which is a huge issue every other mmo had. Every noob area in gw2 still will be challenging 6 months from now, with entirely new events replacing old ones etc, so you can return to an old area and be like wtf i never seen this happening before lets check it out.

Everything you do earns you xp, crafting, exploring, hearts, events, harvesting/mining. Just play the game and enjoy. Trust me I had to totally change my mindset the very first time I had hands on with GW2.

[Rhyis.]

Yeah good point.

[Arcana]

To clarify... there are "raids" in the game. They are called Squads and they were a necessity added for PvP/WvW in BWE1 I believe.

You don't seem to understand the difference between a Raid - PvE endgame content and Squad - Group of players in WvW. Shit like this confuses people.

[Tonka]

http://www.arena.net/blog/whats-new-...-weekend-event

[Takiwaki]

Confirmed deletion of characters before this weekend

[Rhyis.]

Shouldn't be shocking to anybody.

[Takiwaki]

Shouldn't be shocking to anybody.

Oh I know, but there was some discussion about it previously. Also interesting that the gem shop is actually going live, you can purchase gems and it will be re-added when the game goes live, since stuff is gonna get wiped again.

[niwaar]

Also just some advice, leave the entire level to max level to do endgame mindset at bay, content in GW2 does not get out-leveled, which is a huge issue every other mmo had. Every noob area in gw2 still will be challenging 6 months from now, with entirely new events replacing old ones etc, so you can return to an old area and be like wtf i never seen this happening before lets check it out.

Everything you do earns you xp, crafting, exploring, hearts, events, harvesting/mining. Just play the game and enjoy. Trust me I had to totally change my mindset the very first time I had hands on with GW2.

The only thing I still question from them is the inability to repeat hearts. They are there more to "get you in an area" so events may or may not happen. Re-exploring areas you have already completed the hearts in, is not as an enticing option because of this. They really need some "repeatable hearts" or a way to reset them each month or something so it gives you some little things to do in areas instead of running around on foot looking for events to do in some areas.

[Rhyis.]

I don't get it. Don't you continue getting karma towards that hearts npc and getting items even after it's filled up? To my knowledge, the only thing filling up a heart does is allow you access to that npc in the first place.

[Arelian]

The heart fills up to show that you've completed that quest for the NPC and to show that they are now a vendor. Karma comes from events. It also sounds like higher level zones will have less and less hearts and more and more dynamic events.

[niwaar]

The hearts are more like the normal "breadcrumb" quests that other MMOs have that lead you to one area to another. Early leveling is mostly all about heading off towards a heart and event popping up nearby. The event density in the lower level zones is high, but not extremely so. The frequency of events is also high, but not extremely so. Yes, going back to a lower area you have already completed the hearts for, you should theoretically know where the events spawn but this is not 100%. It will be interesting to see how they deal with this and similar issues in terms of event content.

I personally can't wait for Friday to come so I can get into the nitty gritty. Not super happy that they reset characters again. I hope we see a "level up" npc at some point so I can see some dungeon content first hand, but I know that dungeon content is not meant to be the major focus of the game like other Theme Park MMOs have since WoW screwed up MMO design 7 years ago.

[bluefan]

The Heats are really just a guideline.

I completed all of Queensdale in the second beta and then made a new human character. Second time playing it through I came across a few DEs I missed on my first character, even with all the hearts completed. Chances are you will miss a few here and there even if you're playing the hearts like traditional quest hubs, as some only happen if a certain event is completed or when the right number of people show up. And like someone said before, as you progress into higher level areas, it looks like there are fewer number of hearts.

Orr is the shining example of the DE system it sounds like. No hearts. Just a huge land filled with DEs.

Can't wait.