Guild Wars 2: Pre-Release Discussion

[Meresgi]

What I really dislike coming from TERA is how the story quests don't guide you anywhere really. It's nice to be able to run around and do shit where you want...but not really knowing which area of the zone is lvl 5 and which is lvl 17 and then running back when you get into a too high lvl area.

Exp from mob kills needs to be increased honestly, 9exp a kill when you need 2500xp for a lvl is pretty blah. I assume it's just like this to force people to do events instead of grinding? If not, then it needs to be looked at. While the events are fun, I don't really feel like grinding out "escort npc XX to location XX!" 11 times to get a level.

[sedna]

WARNING: WALL OF TEXT! SORRY!
Honestly, I think all of you forget that people don't have to share your enthusiasm or agree with all of your points to find the game enjoyable. They also don't have to like the game at all. It wouldn't make their opinion of it right or wrong, because it is simply that: an opinion. This is my first BWE, and I'm going to risk the onslaught of fans by saying I delayed my entrance into the game due to the people on this forum. Not the people who spoke ill of the game and its content, but the people who can't find a single flaw in the game.

This idea that you have to "change your perception" to enjoy the game is kind of odd in my opinion. I am enjoying the game, despite my best efforts to hate it, but I didn't have to alter my perception at all. To me, that sounds like telling people you have to change what you like or dislike. Some people will be far more open to new mechanics than others. The people who would rather stay in their comfort zone will do just that. However, they shouldn't be faulted for trying something new, even if they realize it's not for them.

Albeit limited experience thus far, I want to touch on Alderaan's points:

-The game world is colorful and enjoyable to look at. I enjoy it's open feel, without question.

-I somewhat disagree on this. The combat feels familiar due to playing some Rift (not trying to compare, just stating what it reminds me of). That's not to say there isn't a feeling of "newness" to it. In fact, I love that as an Elementalist (and I'm sure all classes), I have to keep changing my element/weapon to learn new skills. Feels similar to working on all WS's on my many different jobs in FFXI. Again, not trying to compare.

-As I have not had an opportunity to try party play yet, I can't comment on the lack of trinity aside from enjoying my ability to solo due to my access to healing spells. I usually play a tank and my wife a healer in MMOs, so I'm inclined to believe that I may not share the general enthusiasm of the trinity's lacking presence. However, that's not the game, that's my personal preference.

-Haven't had a chance to try WvW yet, but the concept interests me as long as I can come to find a comfort zone with the combat.

-I do enjoy the jumping puzzles. It reminds me of some Assassin's Creed style fun, and that's one of the few objectives in SP video games that I always follow through to 100% completion. For that reason, I'm looking forward to exploring all the maps.

-I can appreciate the approach to removing/reducing stat-based gear progression, but I have not had an opportunity to see how that will play out in the end.

-First BWE, so haven't had a chance to try said dungeons, so I got nothing.

-Whether or not the dynamic events are "nothing like Rifts," they certainly feel like it to me and obviously some other people. Is this a bad thing? I enjoy the way the events work much more so than Rifts. But at the same time, that enjoyment stems partly from the familiarity.

I want to reiterate one major point to all this: I'm enjoying the game, and will almost definitely pick it up barring any RL changes between now and then. However, the only reason I was able to enjoy it was because I threw any and all expectations out the window. If I went into this game believing the hype that's been built up in these threads, I can say without a doubt, that I would have despised the game for not being everything that people have claimed.

TL;DR: People don't have to like 100% of the game to enjoy it. If 100% of the playerbase had to agree on something that's wrong with the game, we'd never see anything change.

[Syntex]

Think the game is amazing so far and I love the art and design. It's a very pretty game. Also first game since XI to make me feel overhwhelmed and not know wtf to do... unlike every current other current MMO where its pick up a quest and follow the crumbs all around the map.

Jumping puzzles and vista's are exquisite and tons of fun. I just like exploring and then finding stuff do to. Even the noobie events are as simple as RIFT's rifts. Did an escort last night as I was running around w/ some lv 15 ppl (I was only lv 9) and we were doing an escort and had to take the escort to the town... but the town was overrun lol... was really amusing.

and the Sylavri event that takes after Alice in Wonderland and where you can be big or shrink and jump into spider holes is amazing

Exactly how I felt. I am lost in the starting area and how everything operates and I didn't like it at first but getting the hang of how everything is it brings me back to FFXI days when I didn't know everything about the game and things were confusing but fun to discover. I think this game is going to lose a lot of new people that pick this up as their first MMO and could use a bit more of a how to in the beginning so it's not so overwhelming for complete noobs.

The only complaint I have is strafing left to right and how there is a slight delay. I can live with it but it is annoying.

Also not sure which class I'll be playing. I don't know if I want to play hunter and have to deal with pets but I'm trying to avoid the thief class as I ALWAYS pick them. I might go for elementalist though. Finally a game where I can cast spells WHILE moving. They also seem like they hit hard as hell.

[sedna]

Also not sure which class I'll be playing. I don't know if I want to play hunter and have to deal with pets but I'm trying to avoid the thief class as I ALWAYS pick them. I might go for elementalist though. Finally a game where I can cast spells WHILE moving. They also seem like they hit hard as hell.

I started as elementalist, and I gotta say I'm having a lot of fun. It's great being able to switch between elements and it definitely seems like they hit pretty hard. For whatever my opinion might be worth XD

[vrumpt]

What I really dislike coming from TERA is how the story quests don't guide you anywhere really. It's nice to be able to run around and do shit where you want...but not really knowing which area of the zone is lvl 5 and which is lvl 17 and then running back when you get into a too high lvl area.

Exp from mob kills needs to be increased honestly, 9exp a kill when you need 2500xp for a lvl is pretty blah. I assume it's just like this to force people to do events instead of grinding? If not, then it needs to be looked at. While the events are fun, I don't really feel like grinding out "escort npc XX to location XX!" 11 times to get a level.

I don't think you've switched mindsets completely after coming from TERA. You don't have to grind anything, you just have to play the game and have fun! There isn't any "need" to do anything. Forget about the xp bar and just go exploring. There isn't anything different for you to do when you hit lvl 80 anyway. When i'm playing, i'm just running around, killing enemies, gathering ore/trees, and then after a while i'll be like "oh hey, i'm almost level XX, cool!".

This game is designed less around "I need to go do that event, because thats how i'll level up" and more around "I need to go do that event, because those theives are taking those golems, and golems are awesome!". Its a different mindset than WoW/TERA/SWTOR/Rift because the drive isn't to level up, its just having fun and doing stuff while exploring. Those games breed us into avoiding monsters because they aren't on our shopping list of things to kill, and it'll hurt you in GW2 if you keep going it. Specifically, there is a mechanic that gives monsters bonus xp the longer they have been alive without being killed. Thats what that bonus xp is that you'll get if you kill an enemy sometimes is. I'll go off the beaten path and just go looking for stuff and gathering and kill stuff thats like 10xp+20 bonux xp.

So yeah, don't play to level up, just play to have fun.

[Alderaan]

I don't think you've switched mindsets completely after coming from TERA. You don't have to grind anything, you just have to play the game and have fun! There isn't any "need" to do anything. Forget about the xp bar and just go exploring. There isn't anything different for you to do when you hit lvl 80 anyway. When i'm playing, i'm just running around, killing enemies, gathering ore/trees, and then after a while i'll be like "oh hey, i'm almost level XX, cool!".

This game is designed less around "I need to go do that event, because thats how i'll level up" and more around "I need to go do that event, because those theives are taking those golems, and golems are awesome!". Its a different mindset than WoW/TERA/SWTOR/Rift because the drive isn't to level up, its just having fun and doing stuff while exploring. Those games breed us into avoiding monsters because they aren't on our shopping list of things to kill, and it'll hurt you in GW2 if you keep going it. Specifically, there is a mechanic that gives monsters bonus xp the longer they have been alive without being killed. Thats what that bonus xp is that you'll get if you kill an enemy sometimes is. I'll go off the beaten path and just go looking for stuff and gathering and kill stuff thats like 10xp+20 bonux xp.

So yeah, don't play to level up, just play to have fun.

This is exactly what i mean when i say change your mindset.

If you're focusing on your exp bar or how many mobs you need to kill to level, then you're doing yourself a great disservice and missing the point of the game.

[Jakson]

I remember people bitching about FFXI because you had to party and grind mobs to level. Now we're being forced to do hearts or story to feel any sort of progression (which gets negated any time we go into a level capped area, which is practically all the time) in a genre that draws, almost exclusively, from the crowd that looks for character development in their games.

[Rhyis.]

I think this game was made for people that like to explore. Most of my time in game is just running around trying to access different parts of the map I probably shouldn't be attempting yet. I don't even pay attention to my xp bar at all cause it doesn't matter.

[Meresgi]

Well considering that I NEED to level up to do my story missions or to move to new zones and do the stuff there...yeah I would say I should look at my exp bar lol. Exploring is fine, but when shit can 3 shot you, exploring in that area usually isnt beneficial.

I don't like the lock-on abilities a lot of mobs have, sure you can dodge some but others seem like there's no way to get away from no matter what your timing is.

Are you supposed to swap weapons constantly? I'm using a greatsword right now and I used to have dual wield axes and stuff, but I just have found no reason to really swap them around other then looks and to change it up at times *shrug*

I do like soloing the veteran stuff that's 1-2 lvls higher then me, though I have to kite like crazy as a warrior for my heal to regen. Also why are there 2 heals I can purchase with skill points that only heal me but one heals less then the other? What is the point in it o_O?? I think the one might be a regen as well...but the shit doesn't really do anything noticeable for me when im in combat and you regen like crazy anyways out of combat.

If you're focusing on your exp bar or how many mobs you need to kill to level, then you're doing yourself a great disservice and missing the point of the game.

What is the point then? I know it's not your normal typical "grind X to beat Y, now grind A to beat B" mindset, which I like, but still there's progression right? If not then..eeehhhhhh that's the whole draw I think for a lot of MMO players and most video game players as well, you want to progress in something, it doesn't even have to be levels but people like to see themselves "growing up"

On the plus side, finally got a semi new armor look, though I still have the multicolored scale pauldrons that I want to tear off and hurl into a nearby lake.
Is there any reason to continue to do the crap in an area once you've filled up a heart?

[Lucavi]

I remember people bitching about FFXI because you had to party and grind mobs to level. Now we're being forced to do hearts or story to feel any sort of progression (which gets negated any time we go into a level capped area, which is practically all the time) in a genre that draws, almost exclusively, from the crowd that looks for character development in their games.

You aren't forced to do those to level. You can level through PVP with RvRvR, you can level through crafting and you can level through exploring. None of those require doing hearts or grinding mobs. "Hearts" are only hotspot areas that will have a lot of dynamic content, and offer pretty decent rewards once you help out enough; you can skip every heart if you really want to and still hit max level. If you want "story progression", you do your main questline, but there is no "story progression" outside of that; the story unfolds as you help everyone out and talk to people.

There are about 4 different types of MMO players right now, and this game will not cater to them all. Some people need an XI style of straightforward grinding to the end, to which I say "go play XI or TERA". Some people need the game to tell you everything, to which I say "talk to some goddamn NPCs, especially if you're wondering how to craft; everything is in there and I picked up the entire crafting system during the last beta over about an hour and a half's time of talking to NPCs, visiting individual hubs with crafting icons (seriously, open your damned map and fasttravel to somewhere with crafting icons). This is coming from a guy who hated XI's system of not knowing anything, but this game actually, truly rewards you for finding shit out, one way or another.

Some people want the freedom to explore, and this is the game for you. Some people want to kill shit, hit max level quickly, collect all the things and bash everyone else who is slower, and you really won't get much out of that. This is absolutely not the game for you.

Without a monthly sub, us players who love the game will never have to worry about content slowing down or the company folding under or shitty stockholders forcing content out the door too quickly before its done, so this is one of those rare games where we can actually say (and mean it): if you don't like it, leave. Give it an honest shot, sure, and take your ass to at least level 15 before you complain too much, spend some time in the capital cities reading and learning shit, explore at least the entire first map of whatever race you started out as, go do some underwater combat at least once, try some PVP at level 80 to get a sneak peak of what your class can do, sure. But honestly? If you don't like it? The door is literally that way, and I rarely say that, but I can say it with a feeling of luxury knowing that I'll never have to worry about the servers closing because I said it to too many people and everyone left and the company can't keep its lights on at the office anymore.

Man, that's liberating.

@Meresegi: If you want to level, remember that you can level even when you're restricted to a lower level area. If you're running into XP problems, get the fuck out of the area you're currently in, head back to your capitial city, find the goddamn teleports by asking someone, using your map, or asking a NPC, walk through those teleports to another capital city, walk out of that city, and go quest in another area's quest hub. You'll still have all of your attacks and gear, you'll be gaining as much gold/xp/gear as you would have been trying to beat up mobs stronger than you, and you have the chance to pick up even more renown, fight in different situations to keep the game fresh, and most importantly, the opportunity to gain more skill points by visiting every other area.

By the time you get back to your main questline from leveling up, you'll be all the stronger from having access to higher skills through having excess skill points. This game is just like XI in the sense where you really aren't getting the most out of your experience by staying in your own area for your entire leveling career. Get out there and explore other cities. Just like you made the run from Bastok to Windurst or whatever, you can do the same here, and unlike XI, once you find a waypoint, you can teleport to or from there instantly from then on.

This really, really, really, really isn't TERA. There's a shit-ton more to do, the plot is actually enjoyable to read, NPCs have something useful to say for once, and you're not super-restricted about where you have to level or grind to progress in a timely fashion. Getting lost is a good thing in GW2.

[Tajin]

You know what is fucked up from the get go? you're not encouraged to try new abilities, nor are informed switching weapons change your skills dramatically (this is probably buried in the manual, but who the fuck reads )

I was loking forward to try the second weapon set, and when I supposedly equip the second weapon nothing happens ._.

P.S. Consider this minor bitching its not really as bad as it sounds.

[Kachiko]

So, this is kinda of an odd one for me. I really like most of what's been said about the game, but there's a few things that could use streamlining:

- Crafting system - There's just too many ingredients, and while you can dump them all into your collections book, for unlimited storage, it feels a bit overwhelming even if crafting any one item isn't hard to figure out. It also seems a bit hard to get some crafting materials. Jewelry, I have crap tons of copper but hardly any rare ingredients to make anything. Tailoring is just the opposite, having tons of rare ingredients, but hardly any cloth, unless I want to buy it. Tons of materials for cooking too, so distribution feels hit and miss. I've been using salvage items, but it's still more miss than hit right now.

- Underwater combat - It really just sucks, but has any game really nailed this one?

- Combat - still feels kinda clunky, but that just could be a trait of the Mezer. I think if I had a 2H staff, it would be better, but more than one enemy, and I'm kinda getting plowed, even by stuff lower than me. Switching weapons helps, but somethings not quite lining up.

Hearts - I think it would be better if the area covered by the quests were shown. I tend to roam around a bit, but I never know if I'm going out of range or not going far enough, with some of them.

Personal Story - these seem to scale faster than the exp from events/hearts around them. Waypoints make going back to them, rather easy, but it kinda breaks up the flow of the game.

I've been mostly enjoying the game so far, and it's definitely a keeper, for the price. I haven't done any WvWvW yet, but I'll be doing that later today.

[Cleverness]

You get xp easy in the game, I don't understand the need to look at the xp bar. I just literally walked around, did some hearts, and every DE I came across to hit 11 in a few hours yesterday. I'd literally decide I'd go do one thing, start running there, and get distracted along the way by a DE that popped up. Like I ended up duoing Badazar's Champion while trying to run over towards the heart at the Harpies with this random elementalist who was nearby me, it was fun since we both literally said fuck it and wanted to do it. I didn't even mind repeating the same ones since while leveling I got new abilities and weapon kits for Engineer that let me try out different playstyles and situational uses for them. There's really no quest chain holding me back from doing stuff in the Charr zone, I can wander wherever I want. There were lvl3's helping us kill the giant Effigy in the Ashford Plains area yesterday that has higher level monsters around them but they could still participate and help out by throwing stuff and reviving people/etc.

Reason it's been said you need a different mindset for GW2 in here already is because you have people already worrying about things like fastest possible method for XP so they can rush thru the story missions(that only run till like lvl20 iirc?). It's not something you really blast through, it takes you to areas you would already have been to when you hit the appropriate level for the missions. GW2 is about exploring and interacting with the world. That's why this BWE they added Vistas, the 2 triangle icons on the map. Located at high places, going there gives you a brief cinematic type view of the area below, showing anything going on and showing players/npcs/monsters that may be down there doing whatever.

[Lucavi]

If they play GW2 like they've played WoW or XI or TERA, they're going to run into a brick wall when they realize it just doesn't work like that. Take your goddamn time in this game and look around, but like I said, it really doesn't matter. The game will succeed and those who understand it (its not complicated, just different from the normal routine) will thrive.

@Taijin: Each weapon type comes with its own host of moves. You have to master every weapon type to have all the moves; at that point its just a matter of what weapons you prefer, or what the strongest weapons you currently have consist of.

[Arelian]

It honestly baffles me to see some of the very people who complain about steep grinds and large timesinks complain about a game that's about taking your time and doing more or less whatever you want. The game is *made* to be played leisurely. 99% of the "progression" is about wanting to check out some sweet new armor because it looks cool or fucking nerds up in WvWvW or sPvP because fuck nerds! If you require a game dangling that carrot in front of you, GW2 is absolutely not for you, and you should probably go back to every other run-of-the-mill MMO because it's very clearly what you want out of the genre.

But don't mind me, I'll be over here with the people who can slow down, check out the scenery, and enjoy not playing a numbers game for once.

[Meresgi]

As far as gathering goes, korean MMOs have it down imo. Fuck having to have items to gather materials from the world. Fuck mining picks, axes and all that shit at this point, it's just a burden. I don't want to stock up on items if I plan to gather a ton of shit, or when i'm out doing stuff and come across a node go "fuck I dont have any xx to harvest this"

But don't mind me, I'll be over here with the people who can slow down, check out the scenery, and enjoy not playing a numbers game for once.

There is progression though, unless i'm mistaken you can't access every armor/weapon look in the game at level 1 right? or see every area w/o possibly dying horribly at lvl1? There's nothing wrong with people wanting a ladder to climb and enjoy themselves while doing it, that's all life is and MMOs are, it's just GW2 is a stepladder you can go up and come back down on whenever you want, which is pretty cool.

[Kuishen]

As far as gathering goes, korean MMOs have it down imo. Fuck having to have items to gather materials from the world. Fuck mining picks, axes and all that shit at this point, it's just a burden. I don't want to stock up on items if I plan to gather a ton of shit, or when i'm out doing stuff and come across a node go "fuck I dont have any xx to harvest this"

You realize that there is equipment slots for the gathering tools, so they don't take up inventory, and npcs sell them by the 100s. You should be having to go sell loot at a merchant several times before you need to refill your gathering tools, and when you run out, just buy more the next time you go to dump inventory.

As for the "burden" aspect... there's nodes of resources literally everywhere and it gives you exp. You do it as you're exploring and then when you finally want to craft you have a large assortment and amount of materials to work with. It's a perfect balance for the raw materials imo.

[Arelian]

Because lord knows you blow through the 50-100 uses on each gathering tool almost instantly. Er, wait, I've managed to level a craft to 100 completely on my own and I've only gone through 3-4 pickaxes total? It's not hard to remember to nab one when you're in town after the initial "You need a pickaxe for this!"

As for actually gathering in the world? It's a nice distraction and something to do when you don't feel like doing events or anything.

[Meresgi]

That's not by point, why even include them at all at this point anymore? Yeah I know there is an equipment slot of them, and i've used 40 so far in about 3hrs of playing which isn't much at all....but why even bother?

Also thanks for the heads up Lucavi about going to other cities, doing that now since i'm out of stuff to do in the human lands right now

[Arelian]

Because there's a little thing called immersion. It's what this game does fairly well. It's also a minor money sink to help keep the economy under better control. You have a mandatory gold removal system with the tools. If you wanna craft/gather, you're spending money.