Guild Wars 2: Pre-Release Discussion

[Rhyis.]

But you ju... Fuck it. I give up.

[Takiwaki]

lol terminology. Healing =/= Healer. Tanking =/= Tank sorry. We just have different views towards the same point lol

[Dragir]

Everyone is a differently-equipped/merited RDM. OK?

[arus2001]

But then nobody should melee. Ever.

[Arcana]

I'll quite happily agree that the gamebreakers video just showed how stupid internet commentators are. the guy is playing an elementalist and the entire video he's in fire attunement, switch to water ffs and provide support to the frontline!.

I don't think there's a trinity simply because each and every class has multiple traits that it specs into that allow the lines between tank/damage or damage/healing to become so blurred that you're essentially playing 2 or 3 roles at once and the reliance of not getting hit is down to how you play and not what class you play. FFXI/WoW for example clearly had defined tank classes and specs, GW2 dosn't even come close to having as defined classes as that and i think that's what Anet are trying to get at.

[Dragir]

He was staying in fire attunement because the purpose of the video was to verify that a DPS-only team could handle a dungeon.

[arus2001]

Well, when the inevitable cookie-cutter-isms kick in, I can't shake the feeling such will still exist to a degree. I feel like PUGing will be a nightmare because of this, as suddenly Mr. Herpderp DPS also needs to be mindful of his defensive and personal support and probably just lead to a lot of wiping and eventual rage quitting if specific mobs or pulls just seem too hard. I won't argue the video guy was probably dumb running full DPS players inexperienced with the dungeon and probably undergeared, but some semblance of the trinity will make things easier for random players to come together in more focused content.

Anet's intent may be one thing, but the behaviors of their players are another. Pandering to the lowest common denominator is probably an unpopular opinion around here, and I guess that loses some steam with no monthly fee involved, but I suspect a lot of people are going to feel awkward or bitchy in seeing that maybe enmity mechanics are weird or that it can be quite easy to die. To that end, I wouldn't object to some kind of saved trait settings you could toggle outside of dungeons/pvp to best emulate roles, but that just really shifts thing from the usual "one right way to play" to "one right way of the different ways to play" in the end.

Guess I can't say more without hands on experience of dungeons, but I'm still concerned at least in the PUGability of the content since it's likely how I'll wind up experiencing whatever through my schedule. I'm not so much worried about my own skill since I'd like to believe I have strong situational awareness and decent reflexes, but that makes no guarantee of the other guy(s) in my group. As is, I had some difficulties with some outer-world "bosses" I stumbled upon when there weren't many people around. And while I could learn some patterns and dodge most of their attacks, either some would eventually get me or adds would do the same. Other people weren't as... observant, to say the least.

[Alderaan]

That video was terrible. The most important aspects of group combat in this game are avoidance, control, and combo fields. None of which were even discussed.

[Arcana]

He was staying in fire attunement because the purpose of the video was to verify that a DPS-only team could handle a dungeon.

Frost can deal damage & snare as well as heal, being able to kite a mob makes alot of difference, also where were the Air/Earth attunements?, there's a difference between being able to DPS and being able to DPS smart.

The purpose of their video was to make the whole no trinity argument look bad, instead they just come off looking 1000x more stupid.

[Drafted]

The way I see it, every class is a tank dps healer.

I forsee the use of combos becoming mandatory in later explorable dungeons. Everyone is going to be responsible for initiating combos to finish off of. It's going to have to be way more coordinated than your typical 3role tank healer dps MMO where each class has only one role.

I'm a thief and I can tank the mini bosses in PvP maps without trouble with my current build.

The only problem I do sorta see, only 2 classes can initiate water combos. Water = heal.

[Rhyis.]

Most of the light skills are heals, you just don't get the added healing from the combo. I do have to say that dropping down a Healing Spring and spamming arrow abilities was a nice way to get some healing going on people without them realizing it. Great for boss fights in dynamic events. I get healed by simply hitting a mob? Sir, yes sir.

[Arcana]

Most of the light skills are heals, you just don't get the added healing from the combo. I do have to say that dropping down a Healing Spring and spamming arrow abilities was a nice way to get some healing going on people without them realizing it. Great for boss fights in dynamic events. I get healed by simply hitting a mob? Sir, yes sir.

Light is retaliation and condition removal, heal skills are water based.

This probably needs to be looked at by everyone who is going to be playing the game, it's essentially your Skillchain Chart from XI.

[Celeras]

But then nobody should melee. Ever.

Melee do more damage across the board. And if you're sitting in one weapon set waiting for cooldowns, you're playing wrong.

[Drafted]

Melee do more damage across the board. And if you're sitting in one weapon set waiting for cooldowns, you're playing wrong.

This is one reason Thief doesn't benefit from weapon swapping as well as other classes. With initiative as our means of using skills, I'd rather not swap to my bow and waste more initiative. I was hoping when you weapon swapped your initiative bar refilled to full for that weapon. Hopefully it gets changed.

[Zerocool]

That would be pretty OP and goes against what the Thief is about. The class is balanced around being able to manage your initiative effectively. You can choose to be conservative and do sustained damage, or you can blow through all of your initiative for hard and fast burst damage. If they made it so your bar was refilled when you swap weapons it would be abused to no end. People would run double dagger builds in both sets and blow their initiative in one set and then swap to the other to continue bursting. Besides that, weapon swapping isn't just about being able to blow all your skills to do as much damage as possible. It's also about utility and having certain skills for certain situations.

[Drafted]

Thief suffers the most from weapon swapping for sure. Atleast you can agree with me on that? I agree my idea wasn't very thought out as I can see how that's OP. I was sorta referring to swapping to another set you're not using but people would clearly abuse it. The 9 second cooldown on weapon swapping makes switching to a bow so discouraging. Though, I don't really have to swap in PvP rolling with Dagger/Pistol.

Dat images from the 10kfile update yesterday

Spoiler: show

http://gw2scourge.enjin.com/gallery/...9892/syspage/1

[Arelian]

Well, when the inevitable cookie-cutter-isms kick in, I can't shake the feeling such will still exist to a degree. I feel like PUGing will be a nightmare because of this, as suddenly Mr. Herpderp DPS also needs to be mindful of his defensive and personal support and probably just lead to a lot of wiping and eventual rage quitting if specific mobs or pulls just seem too hard. I won't argue the video guy was probably dumb running full DPS players inexperienced with the dungeon and probably undergeared, but some semblance of the trinity will make things easier for random players to come together in more focused content.

Anet's intent may be one thing, but the behaviors of their players are another. Pandering to the lowest common denominator is probably an unpopular opinion around here, and I guess that loses some steam with no monthly fee involved, but I suspect a lot of people are going to feel awkward or bitchy in seeing that maybe enmity mechanics are weird or that it can be quite easy to die. To that end, I wouldn't object to some kind of saved trait settings you could toggle outside of dungeons/pvp to best emulate roles, but that just really shifts thing from the usual "one right way to play" to "one right way of the different ways to play" in the end.

Guess I can't say more without hands on experience of dungeons, but I'm still concerned at least in the PUGability of the content since it's likely how I'll wind up experiencing whatever through my schedule. I'm not so much worried about my own skill since I'd like to believe I have strong situational awareness and decent reflexes, but that makes no guarantee of the other guy(s) in my group. As is, I had some difficulties with some outer-world "bosses" I stumbled upon when there weren't many people around. And while I could learn some patterns and dodge most of their attacks, either some would eventually get me or adds would do the same. Other people weren't as... observant, to say the least.

Explorable modes are not necessarily meant to be PuG'd. ANet is not shy about saying there is content not everybody will experience. If that's something you don't like, well, tough cookies. As far as I can tell, they are more concerned with providing fights with interesting, difficult mechanics than they are about making sure everyone is able to complete the fight, no matter the group setup. It's where their "breaking the trinity" idea becomes a little shaky, but in a good way. The game could be incredibly easy to the point where it literally doesn't matter who or what you bring to any certain dungeon, but from what I've experienced that simply isn't true. While you can certainly bring any given profession to a dungeon under pretty much any circumstance, the player behind that character actually has to be competent.

When you're playing as a thief, you're making decisions much differently than any other professions, I feel. You'll be weapon swapping for different reasons as a thief. Most other professions, you'll weapon swap to make use of some other cooldowns/gain more utility. As a thief, the only reason I ever weapon swapped was to gain the extra utility that weapon would provide.

[Dragir]

Everyone is so confused! That means Guild Wars 2 is gaining popularity and nearing the mainstream. Yay? :3

(lol)

[Drafted]

When you're playing as a thief, you're making decisions much differently than any other professions, I feel. You'll be weapon swapping for different reasons as a thief. Most other professions, you'll weapon swap to make use of some other cooldowns/gain more utility. As a thief, the only reason I ever weapon swapped was to gain the extra utility that weapon would provide.

The only time I've ever wanted to weapon swap was to swap to a shortbow and shadow shot away from enemies.

[Arelian]

Maybe it's just me, but I swapped to shortbow for groups where nothing needed to drop ASAP/AoE poisons. I swapped to pistol/pistol when I needed blinds/dazes on the monster, swapped to sword/xxx (dagger or pistol) when I needed cripple/stuns. It requires a bit more planning on the thief's part, but I think that's the intention. I went into new bosses/encounters as pistol/pistol and shortbow because those weapons gave me an average amount of monster control and/or damage.