Guild Wars 2: Pre-Release Discussion

[Dragir]

I was wondering how long it would take before this thread picked up a troll...
even if that troll doesn't realize he is trolling.

[Tonka]

It's pretty easy to become fanatical about GW2, tbh.

[Elrina]

It is, at least on paper, but that still shouldn't prevent people from keeping an open eye for issues like the bad leashing Celeras pointed out. Honestly, at least to me, it seems like the game itself has been it's own defense force so far, I've personally read very little real negativity about it. Even the people that aren't really that interested generally concede that it's something to keep an eye on to see if it delivers.

[Dragir]

It is, at least on paper, but that still shouldn't prevent people from keeping an open eye for issues like the bad leashing Celeras pointed out.

I agree, but it shouldn't even have been brought up in the first place. It's an INCREDIBLY minor issue to pick on, is actually helpful to players in areas that are not considered to have been made intentionally challenging and the game is pre-alpha. Food for thought.

Honestly, at least to me, it seems like the game itself has been it's own defense force so far, I've personally read very little real negativity about it. Even the people that aren't really that interested generally concede that it's something to keep an eye on to see if it delivers.

Subjective reviewers everywhere agree: Guild Wars 2 is the one to beat right now -- and for pre-alpha, that's damned impressive... and I'm a picky, cynical, jaded person most of the time. Most of my support for the game comes from (as stated in the OP) my appreciation for ArenaNet's honesty/morality as seen through experience as a Guild Wars 1 player.

I think I posted this way back in the thread, but it's still hilarious.

[Elrina]

Pre-public alpha, sure. It's not like Celeras was specifically trying to degrade the game, he made a short comment pointing out an issue with a single aspect of the game that he saw repeated in 51 minutes worth of video (that I didn't personally watch even close to half of, nevermind the entirety). Like he said, in his initial statement he actually started out speaking highly of the overall quality of the way the game looked.

Taki wasn't exactly trying to discuss the issue with him either. Reading through it looks like Taki deliberately started an argument with someone who was criticizing the game in any way, which is where the Defense Force comments came from. He pretty blatantly made out as if the concern was stupid (at least initially, even though he never used the word) and that his opinion was that it was "working as intended". And while you might consider it an "incredibly minor" issue, there are others that obviously disagree, Celeras was simply the one who initially pointed it out in this thread (I'm not taking either side personally, just acknowledging that others feel it's a more than insignificant issue). Besides, it seems to me that the entire point of so much footage of the game being available is feedback (though not necessarily in this specific thread of this specific forum), and not just the "omg guys that looks so fucking awesome" kind.

Anyway, my initial statement was meant to just point out that the game does a fairly good job of avoiding negative criticism by simply being compelling in so many different facets. Like you said, Guild Wars 2 seems like it will be "the one to beat", but it's not out yet. No matter how impressive it might be (and it is), until it reaches the public it doesn't mean much. I'm personally long convinced, at least enough to pre-order the CE as soon as it gets listed, unless it's obscenely overpriced.

Taki has been doing a good job in this thread, and I usually don't have any problems with his posts at all. But the argument over leashing with Celeras was unnecessary, and it's pretty obvious that he started it because of a negative comment. I'm hoping he doesn't continue taking an argumentative stance against any and all criticism that might crop up in the future.

[Vimes]

Because there were about two dozen instances in that latest video where stuff turned around and ran back to its spawn before it even reached the person constantly attacking it. The fuck are you defending, I didn't realize GW2 had already formed a defense squad. Go give Foxer a holler, maybe you can make a support group.

There will always be defense squads.

And I think you accomplished something since it seems Taki made a thread about it here. And the devs do read Guru frequently.

So, yea, this thread needs moar complaints really.

[Dragir]

It's not like Celeras was specifically trying to degrade the game, he made a short comment pointing out an issue with a single aspect of the game that he saw repeated in 51 minutes worth of video (that I didn't personally watch even close to half of, nevermind the entirety).

From my perspective, Celeras saying "the f#ck are you defending, I didn't realize GW2 had already formed a defense squad" was the first incendiary remark. "Blah blah blah, here's "what I understand" wasn't very nice either. Exemplary disregard.

Taki wasn't exactly trying to discuss the issue with him either. Reading through it looks like Taki deliberately started an argument with someone who was criticizing the game in any way, which is where the Defense Force comments came from. He pretty blatantly made out as if the concern was stupid (at least initially, even though he never used the word) and that his opinion was that it was "working as intended".

Here, when Taki said "What exactly should be done?" or... elsewhere? I don't see the intent to inflame or argue. It helps, of course, that I share his opinion that the issue is insignificant on top of being a pre-alpha (publicly or privately) issue.

And while you might consider it an "incredibly minor" issue, there are others that obviously disagree, Celeras was simply the one who initially pointed it out in this thread (I'm not taking either side personally, just acknowledging that others feel it's a more than insignificant issue). Besides, it seems to me that the entire point of so much footage of the game being available is feedback (though not necessarily in this specific thread of this specific forum), and not just the "omg guys that looks so fucking awesome" kind.

I do disagree, and I find myself to be a very critical and discerning person. However, I don't criticize for criticism's sake -- that is, I don't make a point to poke holes because a thing seems too good to be true. It should be interesting to note that noone in the entire (quite vast) Guild Wars or Guild Wars 2 communities have noticed this issue. "Rose-colored glasses", possibly, but the point remains.

Anyway, my initial statement was meant to just point out that the game does a fairly good job of avoiding negative criticism by simply being compelling in so many different facets. Like you said, Guild Wars 2 seems like it will be "the one to beat", but it's not out yet. No matter how impressive it might be (and it is), until it reaches the public it doesn't mean much. I'm personally long convinced, at least enough to pre-order the CE as soon as it gets listed, unless it's obscenely overpriced.

I'm with you on that one albeit for separate reasons.

Taki has been doing a good job in this thread, and I usually don't have any problems with his posts at all. But the argument over leashing with Celeras was unnecessary, and it's pretty obvious that he started it because of a negative comment. I'm hoping he doesn't continue taking an argumentative stance against any and all criticism that might crop up in the future.

Just remember in your opinion of Taki that it wasn't Taki that overreacted. He's a fan and Celeras failed to recognize that in a friendly manner. 3rd party observations are a kick, aren't they?

[Elrina]

Tl;dr: Me discussing with Dragir who started the leashing argument, nothing important. In other news, anybody have an hour~ estimate on how long it would take two people to go through all the key story sequences in GW1, and the 32/50 HoM? I remember a discussion a few pages back, but don't remember any actual time estimates. Don't plan to for another month or two probably, but almost definitely getting the GW2 CE, so kinda interested in checking out GW1 prior.


I agree that Celeras can be abrasive, and Taki wasn't directly so. I thought it was fairly obvious, however, that Taki initiated the argument, but maybe it wasn't. (Granted at this point this is an academic discussion, and we're derailing.)

Celeras made his comment. The first thing I noticed was that Taki asked for an example of how to fix it, rather than why he felt it was an issue (despite his next post expansively noting that he didn't feel it was one). This was the first point of note, if he didn't feel it was an issue, he should have asked why then, instead of how to fix it. Celeras wasn't being abrasive or offensive at this point, he actually answered the question directly.

Then when Taki responded, not only did he take the answer Celeras gave and bash it. What he said should have been in his previous post, along with a question of more detail from Celeras as to why he thought it was bad. Instead, he took the answer given him and belittled it, used it to make his view of the matter come off as the more likely. I don't even know that he's wrong, but that's what he did, and it was antagonistic. I know I definitely would have taken it that way, if someone asked me a question and that's how they responded to my answer.

It was after that post when Celeras became abrasive. While I hesitate to speak for him, I can completely understand why he did so, I wouldn't have been very happy about someone responding to me in that way either. Discussion I'm all for, but I don't like being antagonized (most people don't). At this point it kind of fed on itself, with them going back and forth, driving each other nuts rofl.

And here's the thing, maybe Taki meant to just have a discussion and simply misspoke. It's possible. He doesn't seem like he wanted to argue, but that could have just been him playing the "good guy" in the argument to make Celeras look worse, since he was obviously frustrated and annoyed. This is what annoyed me, that Taki ended it with this:

FYI, I will post concerns about it on forums the devs do read and reply to. Cus it was a good valid point, this was the main reason for me asking why was it a bad idea in the first place, to get input.

He concedes that it was a valid point. He says that he asked in the first place "why it was a bad idea" to get input, but that isn't what he asked. Ultimately, he conceded, and the thread linked above us by Vimes that Taki started actually has a good discussion topic going over the leashing issue, which could have been had in here as well, potentially. Other people notice the issue in that thread, and it seems the majority of response other than being against it is regarding it as early stage/A.I. issues that will be resolved later. Not to mention the people who have spoken up in this thread after their argument finished.

Again, I don't care one way or the other at this point regarding the leashing, other than not wanting to deal with the aforementioned problem in open beta/release. But as far as the argument, credit where credit is due, please. I've started arguments myself, and been led into some and blamed for them, and it's not the same.

I don't have any problems with Taki, like I said. He seems like a good guy, and this could easily have been over a misunderstanding based on bad wording/misspeaking (or not). But he was definitely playing Defense Force, and it wasn't necessary. I'm hoping, since it seems he understood at least somewhat at the end why it was a concern, that he'll be more careful of how he responds to criticism in future posts. I understand if you still disagree, and want to post it, but I'm probably going to leave it at this now that I've explained my thoughts on the matter, and we're derailing over a nill issue. I wish our discussion had been over the leashing, but I just don't care much about it atm.

[Gokulo]

Can you stop the wall of texts? Doesn't even look like a meaningful discussion

[Elrina]

Yeah, that's why I edited in the tl;dr at the top. Sorry about that. ._.;; Won't happen again (at least unless it is meaningful discussion >_>)

[Zerocool]

There will always be defense squads.

And I think you accomplished something since it seems Taki made a thread about it here. And the devs do read Guru frequently.

So, yea, this thread needs moar complaints really.

Yeah, read that thread if you want to see a REAL defense squad, lol. People on that forum act like they work for Anet and play the game everyday day or something. It's good to point out flaws so that they can get fixed up. And if ever there was a team to listen, it seems like Anet is it.

Also, this sounds interesting:

Guild halls will not be at release, however, the team is planning a robust player housing system and at the time that is introduced into the game, so will guild halls. Guild halls will also be more than just a place for showing off trophies but also a place for players to rest and recover, for guild storage as well as crafting, and there was talk of gathering for specific events and traveling, but no details were forthcoming.
Source

So, it sounds like in additional to getting our own personal home instance, we'll be getting player housing and guild halls.

[vrumpt]

I guess Arenanet has their own definition of player housing; i thought our home instance satisfied that criteria pretty well.

[Appie]

I'm starting to think that this is just a natural phenomenon of MMOs. One or two people become really big fans of it on a forum, and they are the ones who seem to function as the hype makers and primary information providers, the negative consequence of this of course is that they tend to be very fanatical about the game and at times unreasonably defend it.

But i am probably only rationalizing the fact that i prefer takiwaki over foxer/mioko because mioko defended the shitiest game in history and foxer was kind of pedo and a rice chaser.

Stopping the Taki "GW2 hype train" has been pretty easy for me, I just ask him when he's on one of his MSN hype train monologues: So they got a release date yet? He goes "no" and I go /care at all his "news"

I'm already on this train:

Guild Wars 2 seems like it will be "the one to beat", but it's not out yet. No matter how impressive it might be (and it is), until it reaches the public it doesn't mean much. I'm personally long convinced

So get on with it Arenanet.

[Takiwaki]

an Appie posting in the guild wars 2 forum holy shit! lolz

[notorious bum]

The funny thing is that all this pre-alpha news and info DOES mean shit. Anyone can tell this game, at minimum, will be worth the purchase and, at best, will be revolutionary to the genre. Whether it gets coined "WoW-killer" or not at the end of the day is irrelevant to me. Arguing over common AI programming problems is silly at this stage of the game.

In contrast, FFXIV NEVER demonstrated this level of confidence to me, there's a difference between grandiose promises via text and showing your cards to everyone and explaining what you want to accomplish.

The game looks fun, I'm all about drinking some GW2 Koolaid right now.

[Dragir]

Can you stop the wall of texts? Doesn't even look like a meaningful discussion

Some of us have taken college-level composition courses and it's become a habit...
almost enjoyable, actually. (lol)

Spoiler: show

<opinionatedrant>
It's sad, actually, that "walls of text" should have to be [spoiler'd] to avoid bothering
people who prefer not to read more than 90 characters per post, and that people
capable of proper elocution tend to concede that it is bothersome. This is a forum
and the "wall of text" type of post is the norm on almost all others.

They invented Twitter and YouTube for the rest of you.
</opinionatedrant>

I wish our discussion had been over the leashing, but I just don't care much about it atm.

Arguing over common AI programming problems is silly at this stage of the game.

Hrm, there aren't any slow-nod emoticons..

Spoiler: show

Anyway... exactly.

That's why discussing who was a dick first was the point of discussion.

It was more interesting. XD

[Gokulo]

Except you're not posting anything most of people visiting the topic want to read (In my opinion at least )

[Dragir]

Except you're not posting anything most of people visiting the topic want to read (In my opinion at least )

*kindly directs you to your mouse wheel*

I understand it's popular/funny to complain about walls of text on the 'internets', but complaining about the walls of text is only adding to them, really. See what I did there?

Although, we are contributing to this thread's page count. gg, sir.

There will always be defense squads ... So, yea, this thread needs moar complaints really.

This thread's observations, complaints, and what-have-you are largely irrelevant as ArenaNet isn't active in these forums and likely never will be. They already have a ton of Guild Wars/2 specific sites to monitor and they can't be everywhere.

Besides, Guru already has this thread.

Most GW2 fans are not a "defense squad"; read more of the actual GW community forums/blogs. Many are openly critical in hopes of further refining the game. This leashing thing, though for my part in this, is just silly nitpicking at this stage. There are things I don't like about what I've seen from Guild Wars 2 demo videos and chief among them is Asura with afros. (lol)

We all have our opinions.

[Zzsark]

And to think this used to be a useful thread for finding information about a certain game in said thread title instead of just pages of BS and verbal-post diarrhea, which is apparently all you can type after you've taken a few ENG 101-102 courses, really? Why does this happen to all of the threads I like. /end QQ continue the BS, back to lurking and not contributing anything of any importance.

Edit:
Oh and a Thank You to Takiwaki for contributing lots of good finds to this thread. Keep it up.

[Saga]

Some of us have taken college-level composition courses and it's become a habit...
almost enjoyable, actually.

It's less the walls of text and more you writing poorly for paragraphs upon paragraphs, then adopting a condescending tone about said poor writing, that makes people not want to read your posts. People will read lengthy pieces of work if they're engaging and worthwhile. Sadly, you're neither of those things.