Guild Wars 2: Pre-Release Discussion

[Dragir]

Of course this is what BioWare is going to say. But we know better, don't we?


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BioWare: Quality Subscription-Based MMOs are Here to Stay
by edwardquilo, September 29, 2011 09:44AM

Star Trek: Online. Age of Conan. DC Universe Online. These are just a few of the most recent, big-budget titles who have recognized that a subscription-based model for MMOs just isn't working anymore. Even Blizzard's mighty World of Warcraft is feeling the pinch, with its steady decline of player population. Sony Online Entertainment president John Smedley acknowledges this hard fact, in a recent interview. "Simply put, the world is moving on from this model and over time people aren’t going to accept this method."

But BioWare is quick to disagree. In defense of its forthcoming MMO, Star Wars: The Old Republic, BioWare's VP Greg Zeschuk thinks that gamers are willing to pay for quality content. "I think there will always be a place for premium content at a premium price and that’s one of the differences." Zeschuk also emphasizes the staying power of the Star Wars franchise, and BioWare's capacity to provide consistently great gameplay. Ray Muzyka, another top BioWare executive, shares Zeschuk's optimism. Muzyka notes that today's players are indulged with so many social games and free-to-play MMOs, it's only paramount for developers to step up and exceed customer expectations. "I think The Old Republic is definitely in that triple-A premium category. That’s the feedback reading from the players and data testing," said Muzyka.

SW: TOR will launch with a monthly fee of $14.99. In the meantime, do you guys think that subscription-based MMOs like Star Wars: The Old Republic have what it takes to survive in the long run? Or will free-to-play titles eventually take over the entire MMO space?

[comment on this story]

[Kuishen]

Bioware is retarded if they call any part of that piece of shit "premium content".

[Cichy]

Bioware is retarded if they call any part of that piece of shit "premium content".

That turd going to be flushed down to free to play as fast as DCUO. There will be alot of nostalgic Star Wars fans at first but the game just looks terrible as everything with Bioware syndrome does.

[Kuishen]

Exactly, I'd gladly pay for premium content Bioware.

When do you plan on releasing some?

[Elrina]

At least they were right when they said gamers are willing to pay for quality content.

You know. If it's quality.


Guild Wars 2 may not be charging a sub fee, but no matter how good it is, that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't ever a place for one.

I would still gladly pay a reasonable sub fee for a consistently fun MMO that gets regular support and has good customer service.

[Dragir]

At least they were right when they said gamers are willing to pay for quality content. You know. If it's quality.
Guild Wars 2 may not be charging a sub fee, but no matter how good it is, that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't ever a place for one.

I would still gladly pay a reasonable sub fee for a consistently fun MMO that gets regular support and has good customer service.

What would you say if I told you, through a couple of years of experience with ArenaNet via Guild Wars 1, that I can confidently promise that you'll get a fun MMO with regular support and good customer service from Guild Wars 2 as well without a subscription fee? Granted, there will be expansions to pay for, but that fact is cancelled-out by the fact that one also pays for expansions for subscription-based MMOs. Even if they are termed "mini-expansions", it seems.

Heck, it seems like Guild Wars 1 is tweaked, balanced and updated every 4.5 days.
As far as support goes, how does direct contact with developers suit you?

[Kuishen]

What would you say if I told you, through a couple of years of experience with ArenaNet via Guild Wars 1, that I can confidently promise that you'll get a fun MMO with regular support and good customer service from Guild Wars 2 as well without a subscription fee? Granted, there will be expansions to pay for, but that fact is cancelled-out by the fact that one also pays for expansions for subscription-based MMOs. Even if they are termed "mini-expansions", it seems.

Heck, it seems like Guild Wars 1 is tweaked, balanced and updated every 4.5 days.
As far as support goes, how does direct contact with developers suit you?

Every time you post it's like an infomercial but it's cool that you're so excited and ready to support ArenaNet. As long as it doesn't turn into zealotry you'll be ok.

[Dragir]

Every time you post it's like an infomercial but it's cool that you're so excited and ready to support ArenaNet. As long as it doesn't turn into zealotry you'll be ok.

Let's just say I like what I've experienced.

[Kuishen]

That's good as long as you can acknowledge the games faults and admit there are problems (if there are). If not, then yeah, zealotry.

[Zerocool]

While I don't mind paying a subscription fee for a good game, I do think that more and more games will start using GW2's B2P payment model. Honestly, I feel this model is the future. Especially after GW2 comes out and they show people that you can get a quality, AAA MMO without needing to pay a sub fee to play it.

With that being said though, I don't think that the sub model is completely dead yet, and I know there's going to be plenty of companies trying to milk it for whatever it's worth. And then when sub numbers drop, re-release the game as "shiny, new F2P.....with a cash shop". That seems to have become a payment model in itself. Let it run on the P2P model until it runs dry, and then "F2P".

In an interview with a dev from DCUO, he said they had always planned on the game being f2p, so they basically launched it p2p so they could squeeze as much money out of it as they could. I understand that these are still businesses and they need to make money, and people need to eat, etc., etc. But I think there's a point where it just becomes greed.

Anet seems to be one of the few companies lately actually making something for the players, not for the money.

[Dragir]

That's good as long as you can acknowledge the games faults and admit there are problems (if there are). If not, then yeah, zealotry.

Heh, I will when I've played it, believe me... but for now? Zealotry.
And if you think this stuff is bad, I REALLY felt like a shill when I posted the GW1 trial link in the GW1 thread. XD

Anet seems to be one of the few companies lately actually making something for the players, not for the money.

http://www.peta-sucks.com/smf/Smiley...ate/hammer.jpg

[Katlan]

lol @ the F2P article. the only reason big budget mmo's go F2P is a last saving grace to prevent server shutdown. It's not that it's a more profitable route, because, if it was, big budget mmo's would do that from the start. Its a desperate plea to bring in some more money to keep the mmo afloat at a slower /smaller development scale. I guarantee all those big budget games that are now F2P will see hardly any more major content updates or, if they do, they will be far and few.

GW2 could very easily have a monthly fee and I'm very surprised it isn't going to w/ all the stuff they have in the game. Monthly fee's are nothing... that 12-15$ a month is loose change each month and is not even a though process to most ppl who play mmo's.

[Man0warr]

LotRO has been pretty successful since going F2P, more so than when it was paid. They are even releasing a new expansion this month.

I couldn't play it long because the combat is kind of terrible but there's still alot of people playing it.

[Katlan]

LotRO has been pretty successful since going F2P, more so than when it was paid. They are even releasing a new expansion this month.

I couldn't play it long because the combat is kind of terrible but there's still alot of people playing it.

I obviously wasn't talking about every MMO. A majority of those that go F2P are on their death knell and a few end up doinf well off of the model. But you do a good job of always picking out the one exception to the rule to prove somebody wrong

[Arelian]

lol @ the F2P article. the only reason big budget mmo's go F2P is a last saving grace to prevent server shutdown. It's not that it's a more profitable route, because, if it was, big budget mmo's would do that from the start. Its a desperate plea to bring in some more money to keep the mmo afloat at a slower /smaller development scale. I guarantee all those big budget games that are now F2P will see hardly any more major content updates or, if they do, they will be far and few.

GW2 could very easily have a monthly fee and I'm very surprised it isn't going to w/ all the stuff they have in the game. Monthly fee's are nothing... that 12-15$ a month is loose change each month and is not even a though process to most ppl who play mmo's.

D&D Online is doing pretty well as F2P. However, you are right that most games that start out with a subscription fee that go F2P are doing it out of desperation.

Why are you surprised that GW2 won't have a monthly fee? Because you're so used to paying a monthly fee that you simply don't care where your money goes?

What about a monthly fee makes you feel like it's worth it? Especially with the $40 expansions that are the typical fare alongside those P2P MMOs.

[Katlan]

GW2 seems to be a very high budget mmo, expansive, coming out the door and trying to, to some degree, re-invent the wheel. I never played GW1 to be able to say if it was the same way during its launch, but I'm just impressed that they aren't charging a monthly fee. I understand they will be charging ppl for each new major content patch and obviously for new xpac's. I'm most impressed that the cash shop will just be cosmetic items and fluff stuff... in that they aren't going the traditional F2P route.

Really, when you think about, 12-15$ a month for a high quality mmo w/ regular updates is not a big deal. I know ppl bitch about monthly fee's, but the crowd that does is mostly young teenagers and stuff who are in high school and don't have a job and whose parents wont pay to support their gaming addiction. the GW2 model is making me very optimistic about the game though and I believe they will be pushing out higher quality raids/updates at a faster scale then say WoW or other traditional monthly-fee games since it will be their main source of income outside of box sales.

I'm not bashing the game, I think they know what they are doing. And to have GW2 be so ambitious and high budget, and still F2P (w/o the F2P cash shop gimmicks), they obviously had to crunch long term numbers to know what they are getting into

[Man0warr]

I obviously wasn't talking about every MMO. A majority of those that go F2P are on their death knell and a few end up doinf well off of the model. But you do a good job of always picking out the one exception to the rule to prove somebody wrong

There are others, that was just the only one I've played. Wasn't trying to pick out an exception really. Maybe you shouldn't have made such a blanket statement like:

"I guarantee all those big budget games that are now F2P will see hardly any more major content updates or, if they do, they will be far and few."

[Dragir]

Zerocool's comment addresses all prior posts as well. Ish why we lurv ANet. Most people aren't aware of this, I suppose, but ArenaNet was founded by former members of Blizzard (including Mike O'Brien who was one of the lead designers of Warcraft III's basic underlying code, among other projects) who disagreed with certain business practices, including charging a monthly fee when it wasn't necessary.

Anet seems to be one of the few companies lately actually making something for the players, not for the money.

http://www.peta-sucks.com/smf/Smiley...ate/hammer.jpg

[Elrina]

Part of a monthly fee, to me, is as much supporting the company behind the game as well as the game itself. More income not only ensures continued good support no matter how large the playerbase gets, but allows them to develop additional games I might be interested in as well.

That aside, I'm really interested in how things are going to go with GW2. Lot of hype, and it'll be hard to even be disappointed since the only investment is the box. Although I wonder how well the payment model will support the game if GW2 flukes out and reaches WoW~esque population levels.

I know one thing pretty sure, that unless it's a severe disappointment (and I can't really see how it will be, with how transparent they're being) I would gladly pay them a sub fee if they decide to add an optional one that gives access to a slightly higher value of cash shop stuff each month.

[Takiwaki]

I know one thing pretty sure, that unless it's a severe disappointment (and I can't really see how it will be, with how transparent they're being) I would gladly pay them a sub fee if they decide to add an optional one that gives access to a slightly higher value of cash shop stuff each month.

I honestly do not understand this statement, what exactly is a higher value cash shop stuff?