Guild Wars 2: Pre-Release Discussion

[vrumpt]

Just roll that into tech issues. I don't think its gonna be a problem though. SWTOR just launched and despite everything bad about it, connection stability has been like at A+ level for me. It might be because they start instancing areas at a low number, or it could be they are actually using modern day server support. Either way, I don't think they would make these large scale battles without having a good idea of whether or not their tech could handle them.

[XalienLevi]

Just roll that into tech issues. I don't think its gonna be a problem though. SWTOR just launched and despite everything bad about it, connection stability has been like at A+ level for me. It might be because they start instancing areas at a low number, or it could be they are actually using modern day server support. Either way, I don't think they would make these large scale battles without having a good idea of whether or not their tech could handle them.

Except on Jung Ma Illum, the Imperials have been crashing out to log in screen every 30 minutes during battles with the Republic for the last couple of nights. But this is not the thread for that

[Takiwaki]

http://www.somuchmonsters.com/

Some nice models and modelling videos some of which are for gw2

[Fairy-Killer]

That video two pages back was amazing, even if fan made. Anyway to make a Charr start in the Asura city? The city is just too cool to pass up. Also, I'm curious about how many people in this game make a "party". I got about three friends plus myself that are eagerly awaiting this. However, if the party size is six, I'm going to need to convince two more people...

[Takiwaki]

1, No you can't start a charr in the asura city, but you can travel there relatively easy, your main story line will still be tied to the charr home.
2, Party size is 5.

nice fan made trailer also

[Fairy-Killer]

Thanks for the response to the Charr question. It was mostly sarcastic, but now I'm slightly sad that I can't become the king of Asura world with my Charr. Reading a few of those articles have me a BIT worried. I love progressing my character. A lot of people play RPGs and MMOs (for infinite progression) for this reason. I'm sure there's some way that characters become more powerful but the whole "constant" model has me slightly worried. However, the way that one article made it sound was that the only difference between my lvl 100 character and someone's lvl 1 character is equipment. Another thing: Lack of endgame. I realize that the game is free to play and that it's more casual than a monthly subscription game. However, that being said, I would like for some sort of endgame that feels epic and awesome that only people can do after showing they're worthy of doing so. This isn't simply slapping on a new difficulty to an existing dungeon to me. I love dungeon crawling. It brings back childhood moments where I would explore acres of land for the hell of it. My ideal end game would be making a huge dungeon that takes a while to pass through. Not a faux huge either, ya know, adding tons of monsters that will just wipe you at any given moment, but a branching dungeon that would literally take hours to travel through in just one branch. Litter the place with treasure, random encounters, dynamic events, and bosses, and you have my new home. With all this being said, I'm still super hyped for the game and want it more than anything right now as my MMO hunger has increased twenty fold in the past year with no good MMO to fulfill it.

[Isiolia]

Reading a few of those articles have me a BIT worried. I love progressing my character. A lot of people play RPGs and MMOs (for infinite progression) for this reason. I'm sure there's some way that characters become more powerful but the whole "constant" model has me slightly worried. However, the way that one article made it sound was that the only difference between my lvl 100 character and someone's lvl 1 character is equipment. Another thing: Lack of endgame. I realize that the game is free to play and that it's more casual than a monthly subscription game. However, that being said, I would like for some sort of endgame that feels epic and awesome that only people can do after showing they're worthy of doing so.

With those concerns, have you played GW1? Arenanet is certainly trying to do something different with GW2, but some of the same philosophies are a carry-over from that game. There's a much larger focus on skillful play than stacking stats, which starts with a good build (configuration of stats and skill selection). With the level cap of 20, and max-stat kinda stuff basically able to come from NPCs, you can very quickly be at the peak stat-wise. What takes longer, and where a lot more progression comes in, is becoming more flexible in terms of acquiring more skills, Heroes, skills for those Heroes, and so on. Being able to set up more effective builds for a given area/activity serves to make you significantly stronger though.

Like, if you were comparing to an FPS, you might start with a pistol and a machine gun. Instead of grinding and grinding to make your pistol able to blow up buildings, you get access to sniper rifles, RPGs, and so on, so you can better tune to the situation. In turn, you're still just as vulnerable to the pistol a new player has. You can't just grind to the point where you can be complacent, but that doesn't mean you don't have progression.

Also, GW1 has challenge stuff, and "endgame" which, while it's 99% appearance/prestige only, demands far more skill than most. I mean like, normal mode, the first pulls will wipe the floor with you if you aren't prepared...but you can improve to the point where you can solo (with NPCs) the areas.

[Alderaan]

I realize that the game is free to play and that it's more casual than a monthly subscription game.

I don't think the PVP aspect is going to be anything casual.

I also think the PVE side is going to frustrate a ton of people that are not prepared for the skill based nature of the game as apposed to gear based.

[Zerocool]

I don't think the PVP aspect is going to be anything casual.

I also think the PVE side is going to frustrate a ton of people that are not prepared for the skill based nature of the game as apposed to gear based.

This. People sometimes confuse "casual" and "accessible".

There's not really a lack of end game, it's just not going to be your typical raid grinder. There will be dungeons, high level dynamic events, WvWvW, hot joinable or competitive 5v5 PvP matches, PvP tournaments, etc. There will be progression, but it will be side progression. Instead of grinding for that gear with +2 to your stats, you'll be going for gear that looks cool.

Also the thing about a level 1 character being the same as a level 80 character is inaccurate. A level 80 character will have all their skills unlocked and be far more diverse in what they can do compared to a level 1 character that's just starting out. You will have something to work towards, it's just not going to be all about getting that gear that gives you +2 to your stats. But more than anything else, I think their goal is to just make the game as fun as possible so that leveling and progressing your character is secondary to just playing the game because it's fun.

[niwaar]

People forget that "End Game" in some of the better MMOs out there were "Mission & Quest" based. Yes XI had HNM and NMs to camp/kill/farm, and dynamis "raids", but they were only a portion of the gameplay at level cap. A large part of XI has a whole were Missions, whether they were Rank missions to kill the Shadow Dragon or crawl through Zvahl for an hour (yes it took that long with a level appropriate group) or trek through Riverne/Tavnazia/etc to help defeat Promathia, these were the core of the game... the story. Now I have very limited GW1 experience, but from what I have seen first hand, and read about it, this is the type of gameplay we can look forward to in the endgame. Multiple avenues of gameplay, whether it is PvP in BG or WvW, Explorable Dungeon crawling, or just plan having fun running wild across the world looking for dynamic event chains that you enjoy or have never seen before, there will be enough to keep you interested.

Does the idea of not being able to make my character "grow" make me cringe a little? to a degree it does, but We didn't truly grow in XI either. Gear was more of a "convenience" issue after a time (except for a few key pieces). Merit points helped a decent amount, but really none were going to make or break a kill of just about any enemy you faced. Character progression will come, it just wont be how we look at it in the current model. Because quite frankly, the current model is not sustainable.

[Takiwaki]

What bothers most people is that everyone is used to having end game, where everything in between was just content to race through to get to the meat of the game or the fun parts. In GW2 it will all be meat and fun, from level 1 to 80. Progression will come with gear, but it does level out at 80, where obtaining side grades-for different builds and skins will be the challenge. As far as growth goes there will be skills and traits to cover that. Unlocking these will take some time in collecting skill points and whatever they gonna use for traits, then you spend the points to unlock them. So there will be a huge difference between level 1 and level 80 in terms of Power, gear, skills that can be used, versatility, even though there is a sidekicking system where zones are capped in terms of power. This cap is also kinda cool as old areas will not ever become boring where u can just steam roll through it, and playing with new friends will be easy.

There is definitely growth, just not the typical equipment and stat growth we are used to.

[niwaar]

What bothers most people is that everyone is used to having end game, where everything in between was just content to race through to get to the meat of the game or the fun parts. In GW2 it will all be meat and fun, from level 1 to 80.

The worry I have in this regard is how long it takes to level through from 1 to 80. The best experience I had in an MMO was the leveling up the first time in XI. It took months to hit 75. Now-a-days, MMOs leveling curve seem to be such that you can hit the cap within hours if not days. Even WoW's leveling curve is such you can go 1-85 in a week at a casual pace. I really hope that to get to 80 we have time to enjoy the leveling and not being a race.

[Takiwaki]

The worry I have in this regard is how long it takes to level through from 1 to 80. The best experience I had in an MMO was the leveling up the first time in XI. It took months to hit 75. Now-a-days, MMOs leveling curve seem to be such that you can hit the cap within hours if not days. Even WoW's leveling curve is such you can go 1-85 in a week at a casual pace. I really hope that to get to 80 we have time to enjoy the leveling and not being a race.

I totally understand but, the time to level depends on you now doesn't it? The game itself doesn't make you race.

[Fairy-Killer]

This. People sometimes confuse "casual" and "accessible".

There's not really a lack of end game, it's just not going to be your typical raid grinder. There will be dungeons, high level dynamic events, WvWvW, hot joinable or competitive 5v5 PvP matches, PvP tournaments, etc. There will be progression, but it will be side progression. Instead of grinding for that gear with +2 to your stats, you'll be going for gear that looks cool.

Also the thing about a level 1 character being the same as a level 80 character is inaccurate. A level 80 character will have all their skills unlocked and be far more diverse in what they can do compared to a level 1 character that's just starting out. You will have something to work towards, it's just not going to be all about getting that gear that gives you +2 to your stats. But more than anything else, I think their goal is to just make the game as fun as possible so that leveling and progressing your character is secondary to just playing the game because it's fun.

I started some discussion, didn't I? I'm used to playing XI, where playing five hours a day was basically a minimum for being hardcore. So compared to that, yes. Seems to be a much more casual system. Casual and accessible usually come hand-in-hand while they don't necessarily mean the same thing. Also, read the article that Taki posted, the guy described characters as being "constant" so that's where I was getting it from. I didn't figure it was this way, but yeah, it was an extreme example. Taki basically answered the way I wanted. I, too, hope there will be some longevity to leveling because, as much of a grind XI was back in the day, I loved it. I hate the whole concept of "play around" people instead of playing with them; I love partying and meeting new people.

However, slightly curious: They're changing the game by removing the "grind" (needs to be seen, I believe it, though). But, they're making stats basically dependent upon the gear you're wearing? I want to see how this whole system works first-hand.

Also, not trying to step on any toes, genuinely curious about this stuff.

[Zerocool]

Yeah I wasn't trying to flame or anything, just trying to be informative. But yeah, it kind of depends on what your definition of casual would be. Some consider casual to be the amount of time you play the game and some consider it the difficulty of the content. So while we know that the content in GW2 will be accessible, we don't know how difficult it will be yet. But the reason it's so accessible is because of the more skill based system they're going for rather than needing specific gear to even have a shot at the content. So anybody will be able to jump in and play any time they want. But whether they're successful or not will depend more on their skill.

I know there's a lot of nostalgia for FFXI, I have it too. But I think people forget that a lot of the time spent actually trying to level up and do stuff was waiting LFP for hours or getting into bad parties and having to leave, travel time, etc. I can't speak for everyone, but these things don't equate to fun for me. I would rather my time spent be actually playing the game when I want to play it, whether that means my character levels up fast or not.

[Takiwaki]

There will still be stats to allocate, and stats on gear, there will traits that basically act kinda like runes in diablo 3, which enhances and changes, augments your basic skills, like doing stuff like making it aoe or crit rate increase, bleeding, lots of stuff. So its not really simplifying what we knew from FF just taking away the crap that we never used and adding to it.

read this

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/...fo-t25557.html

[Lucavi]

The worry I have in this regard is how long it takes to level through from 1 to 80. The best experience I had in an MMO was the leveling up the first time in XI. It took months to hit 75. Now-a-days, MMOs leveling curve seem to be such that you can hit the cap within hours if not days. Even WoW's leveling curve is such you can go 1-85 in a week at a casual pace. I really hope that to get to 80 we have time to enjoy the leveling and not being a race.

What class did you play in XI? You could have hit 1-75 with bard in no time flat, or could have taken a year or two to hit 75 with a Drg or Thf. Its kind of relative to the class you played in XI, which is why I never liked to use XI as some sort of bridgepoint when talking about leveling.

GW2 is the type of game that's going to have a very similar leveling speed across all classes. Its not going to be exactly like XI where if you didn't have "just the right party class", you were doomed to ride the coattails of your friends and LSmates, and its not going to be like WoW where if you build an elite solo-build or play an elite solo class (like Hunter), you're going to fly ahead of others.

[Syntex]

Not to mention the XP time from 1->2 is the same as 59->60

Streamlined leveling time will change it for sure.

[Lucavi]

Very true. I'm sure everyone remembers hitting that wall in XI post-55 where the TNL just skyrocketed.

[Takiwaki]

Very true. I'm sure everyone remembers hitting that wall in XI post-55 where the TNL just skyrocketed.

Especially when you couldn't find a party lol. I remember almost quitting on my first job MNK back in the day. Almost a Week seeking and no party.