Iran, people stand up

[Kuya]

I think you're misunderstanding what is being said about wahabism. Wahabism is not synonymous with being austere nor is it the same as being an extremist. If you are an extremist and religously austere this does not mean you are a wahabist either.

Wahabism is the particular brand of strict islamic teaching promoted and funded by the Saudi monarchy for the purposes of providing itself with religious legitimacy. Its characteristics are also composed of a tendency towards what is called extremism, and being very strict, but the most important thing about wahabism is that it is a political instrument of the Saudis.

[Faris]

to my general knowledge, yes the ruling family highly supported shk. Abdul Wahab's movement to "cleanse" the Muslim community, but his main (and maybe his only) agenda is to bring back the pure religion, by that ofcourse they gained power.

ill read more about it, but i cant seem to find anything specific about wahabis in that book, its just events about india, egypt, and other places and people in those countries.

i bought a book last week talking about Shk. Abdul Wahab and "Wahabism". i'll look in to it when i go back home.

[Kuya]

Okay, i just spoke to my professor, i think i know what our misunderstanding is. First of all, sorry if i'm coming off as acting like i know more about Islam than you, that is very disrespectful, and i apologize if it came off that way.

It seems our confusion is in regards to what Al Wahab actually advocated, and what the extreme groups who profess adherence to his ideology currently profess. Let me simplify it this way:

A- Ibn Wahab did in fact start Wahabism, however nowhere did he ever advocate holy war, and his ideology was mostly characterized by a strict reading of the holy texts.

B- Al Saud, founder of the Saudi monarchy, adopted wahabism for political and, i presume, ideological reasons.

C- Currently Saudi Arabia is trying to distance itself from the wahabism label, because it's been associated to the extremist groups that go as far as declare their own muslim leaders as infidels. I believe, though do not quote me on this, Saudi Arabia currently prefers the ideology it represents as salafism, rather than wahabism. This is because Ibn Wahab never advocated holy war, and neither does the Saudi regime in general.

So, though Ibn Wahab did start wahabism, current extremist groups who say they follow wahabism have added extreme ideas that Wahab never advocated, and make wahabism seem like a violent ideology which it never was.

Note: i recall telling you that schools of thought in Islam that allow for more interpretation of holy texts believe in the holy books as created by man. I was wrong in this. Most muslims schools, regardless of how liberal or conservative they are, believe that, specifically the Koran, is created by God. So my mistake.

Let me know if this all seems clearer.

[Faris]

all in the name of knowledge, nothing disrespectful broda.
yes, you pretty much said what i found from my research too.

but just to be specific again, the wahabism that was started is infact the adherence to strict Islamic teachings of the Sunnah (the Prophets Teachings) and the Koran.
because Islam at Shk. Abdul Wahab's era was going to a dark path, by creating man made worshipping and practices that never were taught by Islam.
so, he acted with strictness against those who wanted to alter Islams way.
thats why most scholars label him as "Mujaddid Il Deen" means the one who refreshed or like brought again. he brought again true islam, without him, we would've been lost.

ofcourse and the people he went against, put that "wahabism" label.

your professor in what? seems like he knows alot about our history.

[Kuya]

I am not sure actually. I have taken political theory and international political conflicts in the Middle East with her. She also gives a course on US foreign policy. From what i gather, she specializes in international politics, since she seems to know what's going on everywhere.

[Denchi]

My good friend I grew up with in white suburbia Minnesota is Palestinian and hates jews. Is this a common theme among Palestinians? Would this be considered extremism (When I say hate, I mean hate), or would simply acting upon those thoughts be extremism?

He was born in Palestine, but grew up in the states since he was like 3. I'm just wondering if, since he's probably the last person I would have thought to be so extreme, Islam does teach to dislike/hate certain people groups. Because his anger seems disproportionate to the suffering anyone has ever caused him.

Excuse me for my ignorance in advance.

Edit: The reason why i bring it up is because this friend was looking for a recommendation for a law school in st paul from my dad (the one he went to). My dad refused, because he didn't believe someone so outspoken and racists against any people group should have any position in law.

[Kuya]

What?

[Darus Grey]

No...really...what?

[Faris]

My good friend I grew up with in white suburbia Minnesota is Palestinian and hates jews. Is this a common theme among Palestinians? Would this be considered extremism (When I say hate, I mean hate), or would simply acting upon those thoughts be extremism?

He was born in Palestine, but grew up in the states since he was like 3. I'm just wondering if, since he's probably the last person I would have thought to be so extreme, Islam does teach to dislike/hate certain people groups. Because his anger seems disproportionate to the suffering anyone has ever caused him.

Excuse me for my ignorance in advance.

Edit: The reason why i bring it up is because this friend was looking for a recommendation for a law school in st paul from my dad (the one he went to). My dad refused, because he didn't believe someone so outspoken and racists against any people group should have any position in law.

so its Islam's fault muslims hate the jews, not because for decades they're killing palestinians and slowly taking over the whole area; which is why he's in america in the first place i presume. oh ok

[Khajit]

My good friend I grew up with in white suburbia Minnesota is Palestinian and hates jews. Is this a common theme among Palestinians? Would this be considered extremism (When I say hate, I mean hate), or would simply acting upon those thoughts be extremism?

He was born in Palestine, but grew up in the states since he was like 3. I'm just wondering if, since he's probably the last person I would have thought to be so extreme, Islam does teach to dislike/hate certain people groups. Because his anger seems disproportionate to the suffering anyone has ever caused him.

Excuse me for my ignorance in advance.

Edit: The reason why i bring it up is because this friend was looking for a recommendation for a law school in st paul from my dad (the one he went to). My dad refused, because he didn't believe someone so outspoken and racists against any people group should have any position in law.

Allow me to make a summary of the stuff modern day Israel did and has done to which isn't even the tip of the iceberg.
Palestine exists.
The Zionists after a few decades of acting like dicks to the Palestinian people to incite racial tension that previously didn't exist, telling Jewish people all over the world that the holy land was empty and they should migrate there(during WW2 that option looked REALLY good and they "encouraged" officials in other countries to not let Jewish refugees stay so that Israel was the last place to flee),and bribing government officials to alter certain laws to defraud Palestinians of land their family had owned for literally millenia since the inception of whatever city they were in(as in literally 5000 years in some cases)to give away to the new Jewish settlers that discovered that they had already been people living there.

Then just over 50 years ago the Zionists committed mass genocide to the people in the area. Those who fled certain death were said by Israel to have abandoned their land and therefore Israel should own it("the land miraculously cleared itself" is one remark made) while some retarded logic was used to say that people staying didn't deserve the land either.()probably had to do with them being really really dead from the widespread murder and rape) Israel to this day STILL goes out and claims more and more land because they feel like it. They have committed numerous acts of terrorism including the bombing of a US embassy in order to try and frame Egypt aka the only country in the middle east that was offering and willing to negotiate a peace treaty.(they got caught and so the peace talked stalled for some strange reason) Then shortly after when Egypt began making it's military capable of defending itself Israel attacked Egypt by claiming that Egypt was trying a sneak attack when Israel had enough military power to DESTROY the entire middle east in battle at once without blinking.

Over the years the Palestinian refugees migrated from country to country and Israel mysteriously attacked whatever country the people were in until no country could afford to help the Palestinians.

Israel has a military unit dedicated to sneaking across the border and murdering as many people as they can in order to provoke Arabs into fighting back. Once they fight back Israel says they're responding to Arab aggression and takes even more land.(It gives them better PR to falsely claim that they were attacked first as they don't say they're defending against the retaliations , they say that they're responding to aggression without the media saying that it was provoked.)The former leader of this group was elected their prime minister or president (whatever it's called). He is on record as having censured a soldier for not murdering an old woman and children when given the opportunity.
The Israeli soldiers have a points system for how many men, women, and children they murder and display them proudly.
Nonviolent protests are fired upon while the Israeli soldiers mock them. Violent protests are called unreasonable and used as an excuse to commit more genocide.

In addition the western media no longer covers most acts fairly to make it look like Israel is in the right.
The world trade center bombing(the one before Sept 11) has possible connections to mossad(the Jewish CIA) so the entire thing may have been a repeat of the Egypt scenario i typed earlier.( an FBI agent made a suspiciously specific denial about how one of the terrorists wasn't a mossad agent with spy equipment and bomb making materials in his apartment when there weren't even any rumours or conspiracy theories about such a thing. At minimum it means Israel knew it was gonna happen and decided to let the US get bombed to encourage more hatred of the middle east.)
It's really not unreasonable for anyone to develop a hatred of the Jewish people when you or your family had to grow up as a target in that situation. If anything it probably takes a special level of stupid and/or lack of self preservation NOT to.


None of this is made up my some crackpot conspiracy theorist. This is a matter of completely public record.

Oh yeah and your US tax dollars are used to spend millions of dollars each year to "donate" "surplus" weapons to Israel for the genocide effort which are still brand new which Israel kindly bills you for the right to give them the free weapons. So if you were wondering why people in the middle east stereotypically hate America and/or thinks America is an enemy there's one horrifyingly logical explanation right there.


Oh yah and one more thing. before the Zionists came and the whole creation of modern day Israel the middle east was literally the only place worldwide where the Jewish people had no racial/religious persecution. Infact the formation of Islamic culture after the empire was born came as a result of asking the Jewish people for help. This isn't some pro Jew propaganda. The Early Muslim's were simply nomads that suddenly found themselves in charge of a giant chunk of the continent and simply asked their fellow worshipers of god for some advice. They gleaned the knowledge and created what would become the center of scientific and literary knowledge for centuries which was in it's entirety responsible for saving mankind form losing knowledge during and repealing the dark ages. Being Jewish catholic or Muslim had no effect whatsoever on your standing in society until the crusades when Christians got a bit less trusted.
In short if anyone tells you that this is some ancient hatred the Jews and Muslims have against each other you're being fed horseshit. ALL of the current hatred that many Muslims have for the Jewish people stems entirely from the formation of modern Israel.

[Zilong]

Jews did 9/11

[Xno Kappa]

Do you have any sources to back-up some of those claims Khajit? They're pretty bold and I've never heard some of them before.

[Faris]

which is a very small portion of all the jewish people, no?

[Denchi]

so its Islam's fault muslims hate the jews, not because for decades they're killing palestinians and slowly taking over the whole area; which is why he's in america in the first place i presume. oh ok

I wasn't making assumptions, I was asking. But thanks for the input.

[Conformity]

Mu dad went to Tehran University, good stuff