3-D work around? please help

[rog]

The information is logged.

What system you use to enter cc info? I really cannot imagine why they would bother logging that.

[Fottiti]

Thanks for the compelling evidence. Once your information is on the registration server there is no additional checks during the billing periods for NA users on PC because that would have required SE to completely redesign the system. As it stands now everyone gets billed at the start of the month and no differentiation is made between info that was entered on a console and that done from a PC, this is evident as there is no difference in console/PC accounts and they can all be freely logged in on any platform at any time. Therefore 3-D secure can only be implemented as a precaution while entering payment information (in this particular system), not as one to verify/authorise transactions.

Edit: It would also make no sense to audit and then ban anyone who has entered non 3d secure info (this is assuming their system allows them to discern who has done this and entered the info on a PC) provided they aren't doing chargebacks, which would get you banned anyway.

[Bugpop]

What system you use to enter cc info? I really cannot imagine why they would bother logging that.

Thanks for the compelling evidence. Once your information is on the registration server there is no additional checks during the billing periods for NA users on PC because that would have required SE to completely redesign the system. As it stands now everyone gets billed at the start of the month and no differentiation is made between info that was entered on a console and that done from a PC, this is evident as there is no difference in console/PC accounts and they can all be freely logged in on any platform at any time. Therefore 3-D secure can only be implemented as a precaution while entering payment information (in this particular system), not as one to verify/authorise transactions.

Edit: It would also make no sense to audit and then ban anyone who has entered non 3d secure info (this is assuming their system allows them to discern who has done this and entered the info on a PC) provided they aren't doing chargebacks, which would get you banned anyway.

You agree to use Secured by Visa or Mastercard Securecard whenever you enter credit card information in the PlayOnline according to the PlayOnline user agreement. Knowingly and willfully circumventing the completion of payer authentication to bypass the 3D security requirement is a violation of the agreement.

Any proof that you wanted me to provide is found in a previous post in 2 pdf's. Here is the gist of it:

When an online Purchaser finalizes a purchase with a Verified by Visa merchant, the Purchaser is prompted to enter in the Verified by Visa password. This password is only known to the issuer of the card and the Purchaser. If the validation attempt fails then the purchase cannot be made. If the validation attempt succeeds then the purchase is completed. Look at Figure 4-1 and Table 4-2 in the Verified by Visa Introduction.

SE fails for implementing 3D secure that can be circumvented. Visa and Mastercard will likely be displeased that SE has such a simple hack. It damages the image and perception of the security and trust the service provides. It isn't unreasonable to see that SE will terminate any offending accounts.

[Fottiti]

First of all its not a hack, its an exploit and yes I could be accused of arguing semantics as SE often deals with them in the same way.

Typically the 3-D secure method will be used in a simple transaction where you enter all your details then the final step of verification is chosing 3+ digits of your 3-D number. SE couldn't ever do this because it would require the system to be able to discern between the various platforms you are entering your details on. Once your information is registered with the SE server the payment will go through regardless of the 3D secure verification (as it would have to or all the PS2 and 360 users would get LM'd every month).

Your theories about mastercard/visa being unhappy about how their system is implemented are not very useful unless you have anything more than anecdotal musings. Verified by Visa couldn't have a more tarnished public image without getting photographed having sex with cheap hookers and doing cocaine, so I doubt an old mmo that has been in decline for the better part of a year (or more, debatable) is going to be a flagship.

The fact still remains that payments won't be rejected if you circumvent the 3D secure in NA PC PoL and its unlikely they can even tell the difference between a PC, Xbox or PS2.

[Bugpop]

First of all its not a hack, its an exploit and yes I could be accused of arguing semantics as SE often deals with them in the same way.

What proof do you need in order for it to be correctly called a hack? Wikipedia gives a nice explation that fits this situation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_(technology)

Typically the 3-D secure method will be used in a simple transaction where you enter all your details then the final step of verification is chosing 3+ digits of your 3-D number. SE couldn't ever do this because it would require the system to be able to discern between the various platforms you are entering your details on. Once your information is registered with the SE server the payment will go through regardless of the 3D secure verification (as it would have to or all the PS2 and 360 users would get LM'd every month).

Please take the time to read the pdf's I have already provided and directed your attention to. You have no idea how the system works.

Your theories about mastercard/visa being unhappy about how their system is implemented are not very useful unless you have anything more than anecdotal musings. Verified by Visa couldn't have a more tarnished public image without getting photographed having sex with cheap hookers and doing cocaine, so I doubt an old mmo that has been in decline for the better part of a year (or more, debatable) is going to be a flagship.

A company having difficulties getting their product accepted by merchants and the public would be unahppy. It is a reasonable and expected response to an unfavorable circumstance.

It would be reasonable to expect that 3D secure will be continue to be required by FFXIV

The fact still remains that payments won't be rejected if you circumvent the 3D secure in NA PC PoL and its unlikely they can even tell the difference between a PC, Xbox or PS2.

It does not circumvent 3D secure on PS2 or XBOX360 because it isn't required. This is not an issue. Again, the issue was the willful usage of blocking utilities to block the secured by visa and to force acceptace of the non-secure 3D credit card.

[Fottiti]

What proof do you need in order for it to be correctly called a hack? Wikipedia gives a nice explation that fits this situation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_(technology)



Please take the time to read the pdf's I have already provided and directed your attention to. You have no idea how the system works.

Actually I have read the first one and skimmed over the second which adds very little new information. The merchant plugin could be attached at the registration stage and only affect the registration server accepting the new payment information and not have anything to do with the transaction itself.

Also a hack would imply a modification or reprogramming of the program, this is an exploit.

A company having difficulties getting their product accepted by merchants and the public would be unahppy. It is a reasonable and expected response to an unfavorable circumstance.

It would be reasonable to expect that 3D secure will be continue to be required by FFXIV

This is 100% anecdotal, stop trying to interpret the situation because neither of us have any idea how the commercial politics would play out. Verified by Visa has a very bad press outside of ffxi and recieved plenty of criticism, which is just as irrelevant as what you have said.

It does not circumvent 3D secure on PS2 or XBOX360 because it isn't required. This is not an issue. Again, the issue was the willful usage of blocking utilities to block the secured by visa and to force acceptace of the non-secure 3D credit card.

I never said it didn't and I never gave the impression it wasn't against SE's liking to do this. I just pointed out that it won't directly affect billing (i.e. cause a transaction to be reject due to lack of authorisation). Now that it is posted on a public forum and has potentially got around the 2 other main ffxi forums it seems likely that SE will fix this with a PoL update but due to the fact they are using 1 registration server built on an 8 year old system that can't discern between platforms, its unlikely anyone will ever be banned because of it.

[Horadrius]

Yeah, semantic issues aside, how does one use the Firefox/NoScript when you can't even get past the the entering CC info?

I enter my CC info with my Citibank debit card, click "submit" and then I get an error saying my card is not eligible for VbV/SecureCode.

I also got a prepaid debit gift card thing as a gift recently, but every time I enter the info I get a timeout error...

Anyway, my problems started when charges on the card failed to go through earlier in this month. Til now, I had no problem with billing as I had called SE and entered payment info through them. I called SE and they said that beginning this billing they were going to actively purge all non-3D secure cards from their billing systems. They also said they were going to refer my case to higher-ups and then get back to me because they can't force a payment over the phone. This was about a week and a half ago.

[Bugpop]

Actually I have read the first one and skimmed over the second which adds very little new information. The merchant plugin could be attached at the registration stage and only affect the registration server accepting the new payment information and not have anything to do with the transaction itself.

Also a hack would imply a modification or reprogramming of the program, this is an exploit.


This is 100% anecdotal, stop trying to interpret the situation because neither of us have any idea how the commercial politics would play out. Verified by Visa has a very bad press outside of ffxi and recieved plenty of criticism, which is just as irrelevant as what you have said.


I never said it didn't and I never gave the impression it wasn't against SE's liking to do this. I just pointed out that it won't directly affect billing (i.e. cause a transaction to be reject due to lack of authorisation). Now that it is posted on a public forum and has potentially got around the 2 other main ffxi forums it seems likely that SE will fix this with a PoL update but due to the fact they are using 1 registration server built on an 8 year old system that can't discern between platforms, its unlikely anyone will ever be banned because of it.

Not using a 3D secure credit card is still against the Playonline user agreement. Using a pop up blocker to circumvent the process on the PC is not intended and further violates the playonline user agreement.

I am bothered that people may be doing this without understanding the risk. I am also bothered that it can be done. SE bans people for doing things that had been thought to be okay but then one day is ruled by SE to be not okay.

[stryderent]

Lulz to se, when i signed up for the FF14 beta and it asked me why i quit FFXI i put billing, the fact that THE 2 LARGEST BANKS IN AMERICA do not have 3d Secure Debit / Credit cards is enough for SE to take that 3d shit off. Not everyone has and or wants a credit card, and if SE decides to use 3d secure cards only for 14 they are gonna find themselves with a lower player base then 11.

[Gethsemane]

Bugpop just give up man, fuck. Square Enix will not do shit against people that are circumventing the securecode because SE is still getting their money. I have been doing this for the last 3 months and they have taken my money each time from my credit card. I use the Greendot Prepaid Visa as the Greendot Prepaid MasterFail does not work. Granted those that do this please be aware that you will be paying a month maintenance fee of like 4 to 5 dollars. Regardless, Prepaid is the best method to pay for any online MMO. Square Enix likes to double charge here and there and this prevents it. It might lock your account because they couldn't charge you but when you reactivate it only charges the normal reactivation fee.

As far as I am aware and experienced with over the years a Prepaid card does not have any kind of automatic chargeback system in place. There is either yes there's money so we take it from your card. Or no there is no money so we close your account. To chargeback you'd have to actually call Greendot yourself. Seriously though. No need to be so serious and keep trying to prove everyone else wrong and trying to be correct. So what did we learn today children:

1. Greendot Prepaid Visa DOES work for FFXI.
2. lolAutomaticChargeback on bank cards.
3. Prepaid is the way to go, even if it costs a few extra dollars.
4. Haven't used a bank account since 16 years old, 27 now. I've got excellent credit. Explain that one

[Shenrien]

Lulz to se, when i signed up for the FF14 beta and it asked me why i quit FFXI i put billing, the fact that THE 2 LARGEST BANKS IN AMERICA do not have 3d Secure Debit / Credit cards is enough for SE to take that 3d shit off. Not everyone has and or wants a credit card, and if SE decides to use 3d secure cards only for 14 they are gonna find themselves with a lower player base then 11.

last I recall Bank of America worked but Chase doesn't when my card expires goodbye FF11 .. luckily that'll be around when FFXIV comes out ^^

[Bugpop]

Bugpop just give up man, fuck. Square Enix will not do shit against people that are circumventing the securecode because SE is still getting their money. I have been doing this for the last 3 months and they have taken my money each time from my credit card. I use the Greendot Prepaid Visa as the Greendot Prepaid MasterFail does not work. Granted those that do this please be aware that you will be paying a month maintenance fee of like 4 to 5 dollars. Regardless, Prepaid is the best method to pay for any online MMO. Square Enix likes to double charge here and there and this prevents it. It might lock your account because they couldn't charge you but when you reactivate it only charges the normal reactivation fee.

5.95 per month
No fee if you carry a balance over $1000 or make more than 30 purchases in a month

As far as I am aware and experienced with over the years a Prepaid card does not have any kind of automatic chargeback system in place. There is either yes there's money so we take it from your card. Or no there is no money so we close your account. To chargeback you'd have to actually call Greendot yourself. Seriously though. No need to be so serious and keep trying to prove everyone else wrong and trying to be correct. So what did we learn today children:

1. Greendot Prepaid Visa DOES work for FFXI.
2. lolAutomaticChargeback on bank cards.
3. Prepaid is the way to go, even if it costs a few extra dollars.
4. Haven't used a bank account since 16 years old, 27 now. I've got excellent credit. Explain that one

Greendot is a bank because it has all the characteristics of a bank. You can deposit money and you can withdraw it. Why not open up a free checking account at a real bank and avoid a monthly charge? You have excellent credit because you pay your loans on time, have a good debt to income ratio, have a steady job history, and live in a good neighborhood.

Greendot has a lot of hidden charges. Greendot keeps charging you fees until you're at -$12.00 at which point they close your account but you're still expected to pay the fee. You are charged a fee for every unsuccessful attempt to withdraw money.

A lack of punitive action for circumventing the Secure 3D process doesn't mean that it's permissible -- that it's okay because you didn't get punished or haven't been caught.

Just because I said the above doesn't mean that I don't believe that they can legally enforce this policy. It just means I believe that SE will ban people just because they can, and this is just as good of a reason as any other.

[Xaru]

Your avatar is bigger than an iphone