Yet another thread about rampart theories

[Raylinn]

Tested this over about 50 runs more than a year ago. Tested different numbered chigoes/bees as the 'placeholder' and noticed no increases in NM pops.

[Blaubont]

Tested this over about 50 runs more than a year ago. Tested different numbered chigoes/bees as the 'placeholder' and noticed no increases in NM pops.

I was in Ray's group as well, and there was an occasion where we held back to see the rest of the PH and we had 4 bees + Skirmish and before Skirmish was killed the 5th bee popped.

[RyanWh]

This is my personal theory, based on experience with NO test data to back it up:

1) There is one PH that can pop the NM.
2) PH can pop after NM pops.
3) There's a 5% chance the PH will pop the NM.

What does this mean?

1) Groups will typically see 3 to 8 NMs if PH is the #1 or #2 mob on a good day.
2) Groups that rape mobs as soon as they pop will have no chance at seeing NM if PH is one of the last mobs.

This is just my personal theory and how I see it. It seems to make sense to me.

we killed mob asap it pops, there r times > 5GW pop in 1 run, dont see a trend.

[yunie]

So our group did bhaf again today...

For the first 30-40% we just killed anything that popped. Since NM wasn't popping anyway, I had the group stop killing the first 3 chigoes and kill only the 4th and 5th chigoes. As soon as we did that, Gate Widow popped. Coincidence? We tried killing only 4th and 5th chigoes again. BAM, another Gate Widow. And soon after BAM another Gate Widow.

I had the group kill the chigoes in different combos, but the only time all 3 NMs popped was when all 3 of the first chigoes were out and slept.

Could be huge coincidence, but we'll see..

[Cooleko]

I have applied dat mods as well, and every run that the NMs pop on there is a healthy cycle of 5 normals, however, not every run that cycles the normals will produce a NM. I'm certain is still just random and there is someone who has noticed the same normal popping repeatedly with a NM. I always comment on vent when we are getting a healthy cycle though cause it raises my hopes we will see more NMs.

[Darkyrm]

Ive done my fair share of ramparts (a ton) and I swear NMs spawn its a day/time/moon thing, dont think you can do anything on the spot to force NMs spawn.

[Hanyoko]

The best theory I've had is there are 6 NM conditions
1) there is no PH
2) mob #1 is PH
3) mob #2 is PH
...
6) mob #5 is PH

Then there is a spawning pattern of the mobs (as i briefly described earlier)

If both conditions line up nicely you get more frequent NM pops. If not you dont see anything without doing funny tricks like holding.

What you can control : what mob is spawned (by select killing/sleeping)
What you cannot control : what mob is the PH (and no way of knowing)

Realistically if the first 6 conditions are actually simpler and its always the same PH, then by taking carefull notes and figuring out what "should" have spawned instead of the NM when the NM spawns; you will know which is your PH.

I'm going to start parsing my bhaflau ramparts either way.

[Julian]

Um, no, what I meant was that all 5 were up, and then it popped while all 5 of them were out.

Here's an idea for testing this:

Instead of keeping all 5 of them out, and seeing if an NM pops, which is silly if this is wrong, since you'd be screwing yourself out of NMs, what about, when an NM pops, hold it and see what else pops from the rampart?

With an NM out, will all 5 regular mobs pop? If only 4 pop, then the one that didn't pop is the "placeholder", could try to keep going, and see if when it pops again, if it's the same "placeholder" again.

Just a thought.

[Yabby]

We have already tested this in my shell.

We let all 5 pop, then only killed one of them of the same name. No pop

We tested it with all the Names over 30 kills each. Its random sorry

And no she can pop under 50% its just you have a low/no pop rampart if you make it to 50% doesn't mean it won't pop, just the chances go down.

[yunie]

All 5 mobs can pop with NM out.

SE can program the game however they want. Everyone is thinking by default that if there is a PH the NM and the PH should never exist together, but I'm thinking why not.

Also, I wonder if there are different "patterns" for different ramparts.

[Gwynplaine]

Just give it up already. The designers have nothing but contempt for your time. Being rewarded for achieving something is for good games (read, not eastern MMOs). Just hope you can be privileged enough to come into the random good graces of the all mighty 0s and 1s. They seem to believe random luck is a huge part of "fun" after all. See mog lotter, choco racing, etc.

[yunie]

Just give it up already. The designers have nothing but contempt for your time. Being rewarded for achieving something is for good games (read, not eastern MMOs). Just hope you can be privileged enough to come into the random good graces of the all mighty 0s and 1s. They seem to believe random luck is a huge part of "fun" after all. See mog lotter, choco racing, etc.

True, FFXI is the only game where you can spend weeks and see no progress.

I'm just hoping to stumble onto something no one has discovered so far, to ease the pain of farming bhaf.

[Julian]

All 5 mobs can pop with NM out.

If that's the case, then I'm going to stick with random luck. When it rains, it pours. Bhaflau is already the easiest zone to cap out on.

[Deader2818]

If that's the case, then I'm going to stick with random luck. When it rains, it pours. Bhaflau is already the easiest zone to cap out on.

Not if NMs don't pop

I haven't seen Gate widow in forget how long and i've yet to see a pop on 4th floor.

[yunie]

Not to mention NM drop rate sucks too.

Out of our last 50 bhaf runs, we got 2 usu feet, 2 skadi head, 1 ares hands. We have better luck in SSR runs...

[Yabby]

Best way to get drops from bhaf is to double up. Do back to back runs farming the same ramparts if needed, etc. Always seems to have a good rampart on one of the two.

[ringthree]

This is my personal theory, based on experience with NO test data to back it up:

1) There is one PH that can pop the NM.
2) PH can pop after NM pops.
3) There's a 5% chance the PH will pop the NM.

What does this mean?

1) Groups will typically see 3 to 8 NMs if PH is the #1 or #2 mob on a good day.
2) Groups that rape mobs as soon as they pop will have no chance at seeing NM if PH is one of the last mobs.

This is just my personal theory and how I see it. It seems to make sense to me.

At best this is not universal, because on runs without STR cells we often have 4-5 mobs out for short periods of time on the third and fourth ramparts.

You said it yourself. If you haven't gotten an NM by 50% you probably wont get one at all. Probably wont, not definitely wont. You just got lucky.

[konoko]

there is no"PH", i dat swapped the mobs to see if their might be one (or randomly determined one evry run) and what my group ended up finding is that normal mobs pop at a set interval (like 9-12 seconds) and NM pops outside of those intervals, it will not pop after 5 are out, but all 5 Bee's/Chigoes/Puks/Birds can pop while the NM is out

[yunie]

Maybe there isn't a PH, but there's gotta be some kind of pattern the rampart expects to see to determine whether it should pop NM or not....

[Miraun]

http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/c...revealed-2.jpg