Will you still play Aion when FFXIV comes out?

[Priran]

There was an article on WoW.com about how they lamented the fact that it is too easy to get around in WoW because it removes the epic feel about the game.

this just in: people who play WoW complain about how WoW is too easy, then go play something else and complain about how it should be easier, like WoW.

case in point: people who complained about the lack of mounts in Aion

[ringthree]

this just in: people who play WoW complain about how WoW is too easy, then go play something else and complain about how it should be easier, like WoW.

case in point: people who complained about the lack of mounts in Aion

Yep. Complainers will complain and post on forums, game is irrelevant. The irony in the WoW official forums is epic beyond all measure.

"ZOMG, BLIZZ NERFED US AGAIN! THEY HATE US AND WANT US TO DIE!"

*sits down and plays WoW for 8 hours*

[Meresgi]

Cheating won't go away obviously. Letting botters get the most out of endgame is unforgiveable. I wasnt talking about botting particularly though. All their fixes are half assed, and dont really address the issue.

You can't stop botters/cheaters, they will always be around and ruining something. No matter how many are banned more will just come because as long as there are people playing the game who will pay real life money for in game goods, there is a profit to be made. The only way around this is to do what blizzard did and make money worthless in game, and all items drop from instances and never from an outside source, which imo is boring at times.

Most of the botting on FFXI was done due to the way the game was set up and how information was sent and received. They could institute a "warden" type program, but then people would complain about that too.

[Meresgi]

I'm just going to say it's late and i didnt make it clear, cause it shouldnt be that hard to grasp

Tier 1 is the easy gear progression. It's the gear you get while farming "better" gears. Why would you farm it? Hardcore gamer would not farm it, they would simply get it while trying to get better gears (if they already have better, they can sell/desynth/trade or w/e). If you're casual, it would be a worthwhile gears progression.

Why people go for swift belt when speed belt is better? It's the same shit here. You get usable gears while working for better gears.


Tier 3 could be a weapon in one event,a leg piece in another,or an earring . It doesnt have to be a whole set.


Again, what's the point? Not knowing if you are going to fight fafnir AI or behemoth AI doesnt add any depth to the game.

So you just want to complain about everything and then write off any attempt at fixing a problem because you didn't like how FFXI turned out and can't believe for the life of you, then a company that wants to make money would look back and learn from their own mistakes to bring in the old crowd from FFXI and a newer crowd from WoW/Aion.

Gear should not be done in WoW progressive standpoints, especially in a game like FFXI where it takes longer then a week to get geared up. Honestly I just went back to WoW and started a brand new account, got my character to 55 and a DK to 80 within a week, now the DK is in full T9 gear and ready for ICC. He's more geared then my Uld25man DK I quit the game on... it took me less then ONE MONTH.

There's no point and ppl find it trivial to progress for gear when you know it's all going to be for nothing in 4months. The driving force behind FFXI was the storyline, it was very well done and is what kept people playing. The same could be said in part for WoW's Icecrown Citadel, that's the only reason I came back was to see it finally because ToC was a letdown. No one wants to get a piece of gear and in a few weeks see that the devs are putting in gear that blows what they just worked their asses off to get out of the water. Your analogy for the belts is wrong, there's nothing wrong with getting a T2 belt when you know that the T3 Belt is in the game and you're working for it, but the T2 will help you get there. What's wrong is when you finally get that T3 piece and the game goes "lolz in 4weeks that piece of shit is garbage because we're dropping T4, T5 and T6."

[Imitarate]

Zelda is an interesting game to mention, because it's basically what I want -- I don't need to hop around like a gymnast on PCP, just for the character to be able to cross tiny gaps in the floor and climb up a step. The 3D Zelda games did it wonderfully without needing an actual "jump" feature. I would be more than satisfied with this. My issue is one of immersion. If my character doesn't treat the game world as a 3D world, it doesn't feel like one. If, as a designer, you need to create an obstacle to progression... make an obstacle to progression that at least makes sense in the context of the game. A magic force field, collapsed ceiling rubble, an angry gnome, I don't care. Invisible walls and the inability to lift one's foot are old tricks that belong in the past.

This issue is far from exclusive to MMOs, but it has such importance to me because of the amount of time I and most people generally spend in them. It's not my only issue, but it's a pretty signifigant one; it breaks immersion more than a Bioware Morality Dialogue Tree.

[altwight]

I liked the aspect of taking a 'while' to move from place to place in FFXI. You actually had to travel through zones making them atleast useful in the sense you had to cross said zone to get to your destination.

Since we're talking about WoW also, as a mage I never had to leave town at all unless I was actually the one going to the summoning stones. Summoning stones make virtually all zones at 80 useless.

[Kaylia]

Zelda is an interesting game to mention, because it's basically what I want -- I don't need to hop around like a gymnast on PCP, just for the character to be able to cross tiny gaps in the floor and climb up a step. The 3D Zelda games did it wonderfully without needing an actual "jump" feature. I would be more than satisfied with this. My issue is one of immersion. If my character doesn't treat the game world as a 3D world, it doesn't feel like one. If, as a designer, you need to create an obstacle to progression... make an obstacle to progression that at least makes sense in the context of the game. A magic force field, collapsed ceiling rubble, an angry gnome, I don't care. Invisible walls and the inability to lift one's foot are old tricks that belong in the past.

This issue is far from exclusive to MMOs, but it has such importance to me because of the amount of time I and most people generally spend in them. It's not my only issue, but it's a pretty signifigant one; it breaks immersion more than a Bioware Morality Dialogue Tree.

In case you didn't catch, the whole "jumping thing" could be replaced with an interactive 3d environment (instead of 2d plane like ffxi). Zelda game have a shitload of platforming sequence, 3d interaction (hookshot, cuckoo..etc), flying enemies... Beside, it's an action game, and Hyan doesnt want that kind of stuff.

I would also be satisfied if 3d was handled like it was in Zelda, but it wont be according to what they are saying, because they are cloning FFXI.

In fact, I would be willing to give up "normal" jumping for hookshot anyday. This shit is badass and much more fun to use.

No one wants to get a piece of gear and in a few weeks see that the devs are putting in gear that blows what they just worked their asses off to get out of the water

Good, because what I posted doesnt create such issue. In fact, I dont even understand or anything you said applies to what I posted.

You can't stop botters/cheaters, they will always be around and ruining something. No matter how many are banned more will just come because as long as there are people playing the game who will pay real life money for in game goods, there is a profit to be made. The only way around this is to do what blizzard did and make money worthless in game, and all items drop from instances and never from an outside source, which imo is boring at times.

Most of the botting on FFXI was done due to the way the game was set up and how information was sent and received. They could institute a "warden" type program, but then people would complain about that too.

Or they could take away money reward from botting NM, outdate their loot...etc

And dont say ixion/Sw solved the issue because they are even easier to bot than before.

[Meresgi]

Or they could take away money reward from botting NM, outdate their loot...etc

And dont say ixion/Sw solved the issue because they are even easier to bot than before.

What about making the heavily botted NM's drop rare/ex gear and the non-rare ex gear drop from BCNMs? Oh wait....they did that in a lot of instances.

[Kaylia]

The itemization is fine if it wasn't for RoTZ. Like I already told you, there's nothing they can do about that now which wouldn't make people even more upset.

I wouldn't call the drop rate of Nyzul or Assaults shitty either. Especially when you can do more events for increased chance at getting something, instead of having only Salvage and Nyzul around with higher drop rate.

If SE implemented similarly structured events from the start of RoTZ, there would be no need to "fix" anything. There would be low tier rewards, mid tier rewards and high tier rewards, and lot of events to get them from.

Assault drop rate isnt terrible? You havent farmed divisor ring or anything, have you? If you consider the fact that it lock you up from helping people with assault, farm salvage point efficiently or do nyzul, the "cost" of assault item is ridiculous high.

Well then, the devs bring new monsters that will make the players think of new strategy then. The strategy between mobs of same family may differ as well

You act like you can magically add anything, and are not limited by the currents game mechanics.

I guess those are nice moments, but I have to say that my "epic" moments have always dealt with PvE encounters, and very rarely does that include jumping. In fact, most PvE situations with jumping are usually seen as headaches at best (Thaddius, etc). So maybe this is a PvP vs. PvE issue, but there are very few aspects of MMO's that include "twitch" play. That is probably for the best.

True enough, but many fights still use 3d (dodge laser, get knocked around, swimming, move to another platform...etc)

There was an article on WoW.com about how they lamented the fact that it is too easy to get around in WoW because it removes the epic feel about the game.

The grass isn't greener on the other side of the road.

Except that I played both game, and one always came out as a huge hassle compared to the other. Wow and ffxi both have their flaws, but ffxi isn't moving in the right direction, in fact, it is not moving.


Beside, you consider the perspective of hardcore players only. What make you think most players want to play 24/24 and be rewarded for it? I don't consider myself a casual players at all, but I would rather play something more casual.

Hyan gave a pretty well reasoned answer and you gave a fan boy response. I don't see this discussion improving at all.

Heian said the shitty droprate is a necessary feature, implying there is no other way around it or no/little place to improvement. It's a load of bullshit. .

If you think a worst case scenario with no tweaking/adjustement is a reasonable answer, fine with me, but I disagree.

[Kaylia]

What about making the heavily botted NM's drop rare/ex gear and the non-rare ex gear drop from BCNMs? Oh wait....they did that in a lot of instances.

You can sell rare/ex gears btw...

[Spliffy]

I hope the ballista is really good

[Meresgi]

You can sell rare/ex gears btw...

You can sell them to players? When I left that was impossible to do, and if you mean you can vendor them, who really cares. If RMT are farming rare/ex items to vendor then they've already been pushed pretty damn far down into the gutter.

[Kaylia]

You can sell them to players? When I left that was impossible to do, and if you mean you can vendor them, who really cares. If RMT are farming rare/ex items to vendor then they've already been pushed pretty damn far down into the gutter.

No, I'm talking about claiming fafnir and selling the ridill and e.body for 10m to people around. I'm talking about selling black belt items for 2millions, or rare/ex speed belt. That shit has been around for years, and it's stupid.

Botters make a fortune of this. It's not the only way to make money, but it shouldnt be remotely close to "good money".

[Meresgi]

No, I'm talking about claiming fafnir and selling the ridill and e.body for 10m to people around. I'm talking about selling black belt items for 2millions, or rare/ex speed belt. That shit has been around for years, and it's stupid.

Botters make a fortune of this. It's not the only way to make money, but it shouldnt be remotely close to "good money".

Didn't they add the ability to get some of those items from BCNMs? I'm not sure about Ridill and Ebody, but I could swear the belt was from one of them. And that shit will go on in ANY MMO, guilds do it in WoW non stop, selling 310% drakes, hard mode gear and Mimiron head mounts. It just means that the developers need to provide an alternate method to get those items instead of paying irl cash for wads of game money to buy one.

[Alderaan]

No, I'm talking about claiming fafnir and selling the ridill and e.body for 10m to people around. I'm talking about selling black belt items for 2millions, or rare/ex speed belt. That shit has been around for years, and it's stupid.

Botters make a fortune of this. It's not the only way to make money, but it shouldnt be remotely close to "good money".

Can't believe i'm agreeing with you but this hit the nail on the head. My biggest problem with the game when i left was that it turned into a business. The same people claiming the same shit everyday, when they don't even need anything from it, just to sell items for relics and/or RMT. It's not why i play the game and it's ridiculously fucking stupid. There just wasn't enough ways to mage decent gil.

[Kaylia]

Didn't they add the ability to get some of those items from BCNMs? I'm not sure about Ridill and Ebody, but I could swear the belt was from one of them. And that shit will go on in ANY MMO, guilds do it in WoW non stop, selling 310% drakes, hard mode gear and Mimiron head mounts. It just means that the developers need to provide an alternate method to get those items instead of paying irl cash for wads of game money to buy one.

I've no issue with people selling gears from instance, I have issue with people making money off gear they cheated for. There is something wrong with this model, and SE should have done something about this long time ago. Letting slowass itemization outdate "king" would have worked in a model like WoW, but in FFXI, it never happened. No, king arent what they once were, but people still make ton of money cheating on them.

2.5% drop rate in a bc that require 99 seals isnt a viable alternative. It's a nice addition, sure, but it doesnt really solve the issue. Einherjar allow more people to get e.body, but it's a pain in the ass to setup (we got like 6 e.body in a year for 40-50 people if you include leaver), and drop rate is again not very good.


And don't think for one second that I'm just bitter because I couldn't get my "dream items". I was one of the first NA on my server with e.body (2nd in fact), and same thing for Ridill. Excluding overpriced items like relic (I never spent any time farming money for myself), I have every pieces of gears I could dream of for my job (minus morri feet...jew frogs suck).

[Meresgi]

I've no issue with people selling gears from instance, I have issue with people making money off gear they cheated for. There is something wrong with this model, and SE should have done something about this long time ago.

I'll stop you right there. I agree that it's bullshit, but that was how the game was set up, and I mean actually physically set up and installed on your computer and how it communicated with the server data. That all allowed for the botting programs to run rampant. Now hopefully SE has realized this and will make more of FFXIV server side when it comes to important information like PC location and mob spawning data. I agree they were at fault but honestly there was nothing they could have done that would not have cost a damn fortune to fix.

[Kaylia]

And I will stop your "i'll stop you right there" right here.

It's not a "server/client" issue. No matter how much is done on the server, the client will ALWAYS have the ability to trigger his skill. I mean, you can't have a game at all otherwise. What you said is particularly true for movement hack, but not so much for botting.

Part of the issue arise from the "claiming" system indeed, and I agree. There is way around this, but let's say it's too complicate because of various spaghetti code problems (I'm not blamming them, spaghetti code is often needed to make cpu efficient code), there is still a large amount of possibility to fix the issue. A drastic solution would involve taking most of the loot away from a particular NM.

[arus2001]

I dunno, I'd say the whole bot market RMTing shitfest could've been curbed by switching to once a week force spawns for an alliance that completed a small quest or something. Sure, you might get some people trying to buy into a drop now and then, but you'd have less stuff rotting because nobody would buy and fighting for no drop is often more satisfying than never getting the chance to fight for it.

Then again, I'm also of the mindset that stuff like relics/mythics cost too much for far too little. They had the option of either scaling back requirements or making the things truly godly... or at least fixing the "lol" ones.





But to reply to Hyan to my comment way earlier about how something kept me playing...

1) I had nothing better to do.
2) I was out there offering suggestions to SE hoping that maybe, just maybe something would happen. (Most sane companies respond to customer feedback)
3) I'm not of the mindset that quitting would've gotten things fixed. Enough doing so en masse would just have SE shutting things down.

They're not getting my money right now, though. Anyone asks me, I'll just continue to say that FFXI had a lot of wasted of potential for a game of its age. Aion also has potential, but its infancy also gives me a bit more leniency on its criticisms. The FFXI of today is certainly better than the one I first started with, too. It's also possible for them to have added new content, honest to goodness actual upgrades, without immediately making old stuff useless. In turn, they could've made newer stuff more difficult, too. Hell, I'll even drop the bomb as an example of shaking things up: Level 80 cap. No, merits aren't the answer to that one, either, ESPECIALLY with category caps.

[altwight]

I camped KA and sold up to 6 belts and got 4 belts for myself and friends. 10/87 was my record.

I sold belts for as little as 3million and as much as 10million.

I got banned doing this for RMT activities. Justice? You tell me.

Nope didn't bot KA, I literally memorized the timed needed to claim whenever it popped in certain locations. No, I didn't count it out it was just subconsciously there. (typical blah blah)

Spoiler: show

For those who know my background:

I botted on Altwight my BLM and only (honestly the only time I cared) on HNMs, Aspid, Fafnir/Nid and Behemoth/KB.

After my friend quit and gave me his account I no longer botted because not only was my subscription up but it was my friend's account and didn't want to get it banned.