Dynamis Jeuno - Vanguard Slimes

[Aquilo86]

lol any blm who knows his shit should be able to do all of the above in dynamis. ive been out for a while but back in the day i used to run a dyna shell. we had a bunch of gimpass melees, except when i came melee, and only a handful of blms, and none of them worth shit mostly.

anyway, time to toot my own horn, with 1 form of refresh and a BA dark magic kit, it was easy to lead dyna, pull, overwrite sleepga with sleepga II, pwn all the stats, and assist with the normal mobs.

anyone who says their blms are only there for sleeps are seriously undercutting their blms and i doubt they have blm levelled themselves (and if they do, they arent doing it right)

[Thorny]

I don't see how that could come into question. Obi's were released before SCH ... so unless the ONLY spell the Dark Obi affected was Bio's initial damage then the notion just seems silly. Heck, even post SCH the list of Dark Element "Nukes" is now just Bio and the Helix. Drain/Aspir are accuracy not potency based. Everything else is Enfeebling.

Drain and Aspir are still effected by weather, and as such, obis.
Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

lol any blm who knows his shit should be able to do all of the above in dynamis. ive been out for a while but back in the day i used to run a dyna shell. we had a bunch of gimpass melees, except when i came melee, and only a handful of blms, and none of them worth shit mostly.

anyway, time to toot my own horn, with 1 form of refresh and a BA dark magic kit, it was easy to lead dyna, pull, overwrite sleepga with sleepga II, pwn all the stats, and assist with the normal mobs.

anyone who says their blms are only there for sleeps are seriously undercutting their blms and i doubt they have blm levelled themselves (and if they do, they arent doing it right)

I lead dynamis, have BLM75, and use it on occasion. I can nuke statues, throw spare nukes, and do all sleepgas. This doesn't mean that my damage on plain mobs means jack shit or I would ever recommend bringing more BLMs than you need to keep the pulls slept efficiently.

[Xanthe]

To Thorny- Given the melee-heavy strategy, what do you recommend regarding the time extension SE of the RDM/WAR/BRD set in Xarcabard? I'd love to know a method that didn't require a large number of BLMs.

[Amastacia]

Sac pull?

[Necronus]

Drain and Aspir are still effected by weather, and as such, obis.
Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

You seem to hold me in low regard as it is, but I hope you didn't think I implied otherwise about drain/aspir. I was asking why the person I responded to would question if obis affect accuracy and not just potency. My point was that asking if it only affects potency was like asking if it only affects Bio/Helix

To Thorny- Given the melee-heavy strategy, what do you recommend regarding the time extension SE of the RDM/WAR/BRD set in Xarcabard? I'd love to know a method that didn't require a large number of BLMs.

Heh, even for a shell like me with 3-5 BLMs present, we sac-pull that. Then either BLM snipe or RNG Barrage the statue after the 2 eyes are dead and the stand resets.

Now how we pull the "Demon Wall" ... heh ... even I laugh at it, but we have a THF run down the line of eyes, and as they pop, I drop a Stonega I on a chunk of the wall to pull 6-10 mobs. Yeah, go easy on me for that one, it works well I swear.

[Thorny]

You seem to hold me in low regard as it is, but I hope you didn't think I implied otherwise about drain/aspir. I was asking why the person I responded to would question if obis affect accuracy and not just potency. My point was that asking if it only affects potency was like asking if it only affects Bio/Helix

It affects potency on Drain and Aspir. There is no proof anywhere that it affects accuracy.

For the southeast extension, we have one melee target each of the 2 eyes naturally up, someone aggro pulls and sacs, kill those 2 eyes and extension then kill the rest as they come back. It really depends on your numbers though, we run with 8-12 typically :s I imagine with about 16 you could just straight out have a melee take each eye and keep them alive if they're competent.

[Xanthe]

So really not much different than the 6 eye wall en route to Zvahl. We usually run with 18-24, so I bet we could get a kiter on each of the additional eyes that pop and forgo the sac.

[Deader2818]

Correct me if im wrong, Day/Weather bonus is MAB and MACC?

I thought MAB played no role in Drain/Aspir and numbers were based off a cap (Dark magic skill) and Macc just pushed you closer to that cap.

Which is why obis help it more because it pushes you closer to the cap, not add more potency.

[Xanthe]

Correct me if im wrong, Day/Weather bonus is MAB and MACC?

Consider yourself corrected. Day/Weather bonus is a straight 10/25/35% increase in potency depending on your combination of factors.

[Necronus]

Correct me if im wrong, Day/Weather bonus is MAB and MACC?

I thought MAB played no role in Drain/Aspir and numbers were based off a cap (Dark magic skill) and Macc just pushed you closer to that cap.

Which is why obis help it more because it pushes you closer to the cap, not add more potency.

Correct, accuracy for Drain/Aspir only, no potency. Hence my proof why obis and weather affect accuracy, which answers the other dudes question.

[Thorny]

Correct me if im wrong, Day/Weather bonus is MAB and MACC?

Wrong. It's a seperate multiplier, day is worth .10, weather .10, and double weather .25. BLM relic pants are .5(on ele spells only), and there is an overall cap on it of .35. Your damage is multiplied by this after all other calculations. It does affect drain and aspir. Effects of day on m.acc are unknown, though Stun cannot be resisted on standard mobs unless it's earthday or earth weather, so it seems it adds a % chance of boosting or lowering resist by one tier instead of straight m.acc. Any effect on this granted by obis is purely anecdotal, there has not been a sufficient test to conclude that obis help m.acc in any way.

I thought MAB played no role in Drain/Aspir and numbers were based off a cap (Dark magic skill) and Macc just pushed you closer to that cap.

It has a fluctuating base damage that can be increased by dark magic skill. Magic accuracy lowers the chance of resists, which cut your damage to 1/2 1/4 1/8 or 1/16. 0 M.acc will have the same maximum drain as +50, but more resists lowering damage. MAB does nothing.

[Necronus]

Ah, just saw your sig, and I truly did laugh. Not AT you, just yeah ... its funny, I award you points good sir.

Overall, I must say, this thread has made my last 2 days of work before the holiday break much less dull and dreary, so thanks. Also, it may be the push I apparently needed to convince myself to sell the Sash. I'll be on vacation for over a week so I'll play the AH game and I may walk away with apparently up to 4 HQ staves. When I got the Sash it only was worth one and a half staves.

[Deader2818]

Its the same has Single weather = 10% dmg, double weather = 20%, day = 10% and the pants = 5%?

Thats always what I thought it to be.

Well, nevermind, you said .10, .20 .5 which is the same, XD

I assumed its the same for macc but its much like the same as staves I believe since the macc on NQ and HQ has never been proven.

[NynJa]

Its the same has Single weather = 10% dmg, double weather = 20%, day = 10% and the pants = 5%?

Thats always what I thought it to be.

Well, nevermind, you said .10, .20 .5 which is the same, XD

I assumed its the same for macc but its much like the same as staves I believe since the macc on NQ and HQ has never been proven.

Day = 10
Weather x1 = 10
Weather x2 = 25 (or +15 on previous)
BLM pants = 5
with a cap of 35

So if its double thunder in aery on thunderday, dont bother with blm pants.

[Teorem]

If the BLM in question is not controlling sleeps and RDMs are stuck doing it, you would be universally better off with an additional melee.

I don't agree that you are "universally" better off with additional melee because the decision on how you handle statues varies with your available job setup (including the group size and potential number of melee getting appropriate buffs) and the competency of your members.

At most runs I will gladly take a few BLMs/SCHs handling statues and putting melee alliances on Vanguard earlier. If I can have one person dealing with a single statue in a couple of series IV spells, I don't have to be concerned about someone missing Stun and letting Seismostomp (or a spell from the statue in Windurst) slip through and get people. In my experience, it is simply a cleaner way to handle them in parallel with handling the normal Vanguard.

Having melee clear the statues is just fine, but on non-HP/MP statues, it's simply slower and the competency issue comes into play where you need to be able to rely on your melee to either Stun or otherwise have to absorb things like Seismostomp. In a perfect linkshell you naturally would never would have to worry about this, but it is still an issue, particularly with groups that are not used to having melee clear statues already.

Note that I am NOT suggesting that a very low-man setup (eg., 6-8 people) break their balanced melee party with BLMs or SCHs just to deal with statues. However, if you have enough members attending to afford it or have one/two/three-offs that are not self-sufficient enough to contribute meaningfully after making whatever divide-and-conquer partitions you usually make for your zone, there is nothing wrong with having them being BLMs and tasking them with statue management.

BLMs do not simply have to be Sleepga II whores. Crowd control is an "everyone" responsibility, not a BLM-only or RDM-only job.

[Thorny]

Seismostomp caps out at like 400 damage, so horrible argument. A live melee even with no buffs can easily double BLMs damage over time, so yes, they are more efficient. The exception is if you can field a massive amount of BLMs and manaburn the whole zone, which may still be less efficient but it's much safer and it does work well by any standards.

TLDR; If you do half the damage of a melee and aren't needed for crowd control, wtf are you on BLM instead of a melee for? In this day and age, everyone has at least one melee job.

[Deader2818]

Honestly, the discussion now is just silly because both methods work just fine and they get the job done.

Do what works for you.

[Thorny]

Honestly, the discussion now is just silly because both methods work just fine and they get the job done.

It doesn't matter if I do a little bit less damage with str rings it works just fine and we're getting exp anyway.

Note similarities.

[Deader2818]

Well, I already know its pointless to argue with you because you are set in your mind that your ways are the right and only way to do things.

If you like your way, fine, no one is going to stop you and tell you your wrong. Works both ways though.

Maybe your way is a bit faster, and their way is a bit safer, does it really matter?

[Thorny]

Well, I already know its pointless to argue with you because you are set in your mind that your ways are the right and only way to do things.

If you like your way, fine, no one is going to stop you and tell you your wrong. Works both ways though.

Go ahead, convince me it's worth halving the damage output of some of my members to have additional sorcerer's petasoses visible in my alliance. I'll gladly change how I operate if you give any valid reasoning for it.