Writing Macros

[Wrish]

Would you mind quoting where I said I supported abusing exploits? Please, I'd really enjoy that. Or, you couldn't... no, you wouldn't! You wouldn't dare be making an assumption for the millionth time in this thread! Could you?! Would you?! Never, I refuse to believe it!

You've many times here supported legitimizing Windower, which contains a feature to make walls transparent. You probably never said you supported making walls transparent, but you neglected to clarify, and so your wishlist, intentionally or not, includes letting people abuse see-through walls, which as you might have noticed, is merely an "innocuous" snoop into video memory.

Gee, any game developer now wishing to create a wall that can't be seen through would need to cloud-source the renderer or code for 2D... As if! FPS servers have since the advent of 3D been pruning wireframe cheaters with either client monitoring or server-side heuristics.

Oh, you're not going to pull a Baha and claim this to be grey-area or some such, are ya? I know you can hack video drivers - that is obviously irrelevant. I know you can refrain from typing 'fillmode' - that is no defense.

I am wondering if Wrish uses FFXIAH or Wikipedia cause those both give an advantage over those that can't access the internet while ingame.

I use both sites and that accords with ToS. If these sites hurt SE, they hire lawyers.

I assume console players are the ones sequestered while gaming. That doesn't affect just these sites. That life is unfair (you can't afford a netbook?) in no way precludes efforts to make a game fair within.

What Windower can do to FFXI makes for the playing field uneven. The proof is how many people express their dependence on Windower for game-play, not aesthetic, reasons. When it changes gameplay "just for you," it's a cheat.

Since FFXIAH.com uses automation it is cheating to me.

Did you forget that FFXIAH.com does not play the game? Ask Scragg on his forums; he doesn't use valid POL accounts to retrieve data from the auction house of any server.

to windower haters: we like the program and your "moral highground" isn't going to get us to stop using it so get a straw and suck it up.

I can't directly stop people from using Windower. I can, however, destabilize their moral groundedness and sully their claims to achievement simply by bringing up such usage, and there's nothing you can do to discourage folks like me from doing so. That removes some of the impetus for cheating... it targets the malicious and deceitful part of usage.

Let's not think it unobvious why this thread is 5 pages. If SE split servers into Windower and non-Windower, a bunch of people would be trying to trick their way into the latter. Some who fail might even go around the former whining that they were misdetected. Oh, the inborn immorality of the nascent mind.

Gaiz I used a really really long macro to cap my singing skill after getting out of a smn burn for my bard, now I have a guilty conscience.

I'm thinking I should stop using windower cause Se might ban me cause I know how many units I am away from that colibri I just pulled and my inventory gets auto sorted and 'cause I can macro swap more than 5 pieces of gear at once.

I feel dirty, what do?

Fascinating dilemma! How about consulting a GM?

[BunkMonk]

- I know you can refrain from typing 'fillmode' - that is no defense.

You made a crazy car analogy earlier in this thread, so I'm gonna throw it back! Weee.

If you own a car, you can speed. I know you can refrain from speeding, but that's no excuse! You obviously speed all the time, thusly, you should be ticketed on sight by all cops.


And Hakamaru, thank you! <3 Just tested, and it's functional now.

[Ksandra]

I use both sites and that accords with ToS. If these sites hurt SE, they hire lawyers.

Whoah what? You claim that if FFXIAH was against tos SE would get lawyers, but SE hasn't gotten lawyers against windower either...That point is completely moot.

I assume console players are the ones sequestered while gaming. That doesn't affect just these sites. That life is unfair (you can't afford a netbook?) in no way precludes efforts to make a game fair within.

Lets take a look at SE's definition for 3rd party programs:

Definition
Usage of a 3rd party programs is defined as usage of a program, made and distributed by an individual other then Square Enix, which impacts the game play in any way. Usage of any of these types of programs, regardless of if they give the player an unfair advantage over others or not, is strictly prohibited. The following are some examples of such prohibited activities:
- Use of a program or tool within any PlayOnline service that allows any actions to be performed automatically and continuously.
- Changing, combining, reverse engineering, or analyzing game data, as well as creating or distributing utility programs for such purposes.
- Use of any unofficial program to the benefit of any users.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...erm+of+service

FFXIAH falls under this for sure. It is a program that analyzes game data. It goes through and shows crafters what to craft for the most profit. And whether you think it's a huge benefit it is no less a benefit given from an unofficial program. The fact I can check the AH while in sky IS a benefit, whether you want to think it is or not.

Did you forget that FFXIAH.com does not play the game? Ask Scragg on his forums; he doesn't use valid POL accounts to retrieve data from the auction house of any server.

He doesn't need to the program does it for him.

[Wrish]

Kohan, I usually ignore remarks that are tangential or too easily refuted (critically read your responses to understand why), but for a few I can hardly resist comment:

My pride is what eventually brought me to using Windower text macros. With them, I knew that I could optimize my performance beyond what in-game macros allow, mostly due to space limitations.

My lack of pride is what got me into driving cars. With them, I knew that I could optimize my speed and endurance over slimmer people running on foot at our last marathon, mostly due to event restrictions.

I fail to see any positive correlation with pride. Pride is comparative. If you make use of an aid, you turn to comparing with those who also use that aid. Do you even know what 'pride' means?

I don't use them to automate shit. The vast majority of Windower users don't.

Want to prove the latter, Mr. Don't-Assume-Anything? Is pressing one key instead of three not a form of automation, Mr. I-Can-Use-Big-Words-Too?

In other words, take your head out of your ass, you sad freakin' dipshit, and observe the big picture -- the reality of the situation. Unless you obviously fucking cheat, nobody fucking cares.

So most features of Windower are not cheating, and that means no one cares if you use just those features. Want to prove that with a nice chat with any of the dozens of friendly GMs? Fraps shots requested! Fraps surely couldn't be cheating, either...

Do you really think that if these people lost the ability to use Windower due to an update, they'd think, "OH GOD WHAT DO I DO, WINDOWER IS OBVIOUSLY SO MUCH HARDER TO USE AND EVEN PEOPLE WHO CLAIMED IT RAPED THEIR MOTHERS LIKE WRISH SAY SO, BUT OH GOD I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE REGULAR FFXI MACROS I AM SO FUCKED"?

Because I don't really think that's going to happen.

I don't know what you've been reading, but some posts in this very thread are about people who claim they'd quit if SE banned Windower. Instead of remake accounts, y'know.

Oh, please. [url=http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68075]Read on and be absolutely delighted by how misinformed you are on marijuana if you even remotely believe it's a menace to society

1) You know a lot about marijuana for using it once before learning you were allergic.
2) A BG thread is a great way to learn the truth about marijuana.
3) Funny, some people in that thread do believe it to be a menace. Your point?

[Wrish]

Whoah what? You claim that if FFXIAH was against tos SE would get lawyers, but SE hasn't gotten lawyers against windower either...That point is completely moot.

It seems you are a little confused. Lawyers go after web sites by opening with cease-and-desist letters on behalf of SE. SE is not the RIAA; SE does not pee millions for a shock campaign that sues thousands of individuals at once.

SE directly closes the accounts of individual ToS violators... thousands simultaneously, at times. SE only indirectly shuts down web sites, and it pays dearly to do so.

FFXIAH falls under this for sure. It is a program that analyzes game data. It goes through and shows crafters what to craft for the most profit.

ffxiah.com is a web site that does not run "within any Playonline service." It also does not do anything with game data, which is the POL folder and memory-resident code at execution time. If you doubt this definition of 'game data,' ask whether standing at the auction house and comparing the price of crafting materials is breaking the ToS. Finally, ffxiah.com is not a program, though that is but a legal technicality. It just seemed to me that you were twisting words to appear to make an argument.

He doesn't need to the program does it for him.

The programming behind ffxiah.com does not use real POL accounts to do its work. Therefore, SE has no accounts to scrutinize with the ToS. As I said, ask Scragg for details.

[Deader2818]

Lol dude, you are classic, if you had such high standards in morals, you wouldnt even use FFXIAH.

So, FFXIAH takes game data it makes it easier for you to read much like many of the plug ins windower does?

You are a fucking joke of a person.

Either you are epicly retarded, or the best troll ever.

[Wrish]

ffxiah.com is fair; it's available to everyone who can access web sites, and using it doesn't break ToS. So please elaborate on the moral qualms of using ffxiah.com?

Though Windower is available to most people, using it breaks ToS as I've so clearly argued in preceding posts. Because you have to break the ToS to be even with others using it, the program provides an unfair advantage.

[Ksandra]

It seems you are a little confused. Lawyers go after web sites by opening with cease-and-desist letters on behalf of SE. SE is not the RIAA; SE does not pee millions for a shock campaign that sues thousands of individuals at once.

SE directly closes the accounts of individual ToS violators... thousands simultaneously, at times. SE only indirectly shuts down web sites, and it pays dearly to do so.

you were the one that brought up the lawyer defense, I was just pointing out that makes no sense and has no relation to the topic. What you said still doesn't defend your comment about no lawyers coming after FFXIAH = not against ToS, which again is why you said not me.

ffxiah.com is a web site that does not run "within any Playonline service." It also does not do anything with game data, which is the POL folder and memory-resident code at execution time. If you doubt this definition of 'game data,' ask whether standing at the auction house and comparing the price of crafting materials is breaking the ToS. Finally, ffxiah.com is not a program, though that is but a legal technicality. It just seemed to me that you were twisting words to appear to make an argument.

If you want to get into semantics then the program that allows FFXIAH to see the date is the part that is against the ToS, and by you using the site that displays the info the program gave, it is against the ToS.

FFXIAH does the EXACT same thing windower does, there is no way for you to bend that. IT is turning ingame info into an easier to display format, which is exactly what windower does.

The programming behind ffxiah.com does not use real POL accounts to do its work. Therefore, SE has no accounts to scrutinize with the ToS. As I said, ask Scragg for details.

You do realize that FFXI is considered a program within POL right? And no where in the TOS does it say you need an account accessed in order for it to be against ToS.

I don't understand your defense about an account, show me in the ToS where it says it has to be a program that accesses a POL ID in order for it to be considered against the ToS.



Simply put, you want your cake and eat it too by using AH then turning around and calling foul on windower users.

[Wrish]

you were the one that brought up the lawyer defense, I was just pointing out that makes no sense and has no relation to the topic. What you said still doesn't defend your comment about no lawyers coming after FFXIAH = not against ToS, which again is why you said not me.

If ffxiah.com breaks something with SE servers, SE goes after the owner of ffxiah.com, not the users of ffxiah.com. The web site does not interface with your game in any way, unlike Windower, where SE could theoretically go after both users and developers. SE has no "jurisdiction" over other things you do with your computer, like visiting web sites, that have no interdependence with your copy of FFXI, even if they provide info about the game.

You do realize that FFXI is considered a program within POL right? And no where in the TOS does it say you need an account accessed in order for it to be against ToS.

What does ToS stand for? Terms of Service. It is a contract, and in contract law you cannot enforce an obligation without offering value in return. The ToS is enforceable because in return for your refraining from use of any cheat devices for FFXI, among other things, they agree to let you play the game on their servers.

ffxiah.com does not have a contract with SE (that I know of); therefore, no "ToS" applies to it.

IT is turning ingame info into an easier to display format, which is exactly what windower does.

Distance, for example, is not in-game info. It is extracted (and calculated?) from memory only by third party programs. The same applies to alliance MP bars, exact % health bars, visualization of objects behind walls. Windower goes further, affecting input of game commands. That you would compare it with the tabulation of auction house history data that any mule can display is appalling.

[Deader2818]

Stop, just stop. I think I become more stupid reading anything you post.

[Ksandra]

If ffxiah.com breaks something with SE servers, SE goes after the owner of ffxiah.com, not the users of ffxiah.com. The web site does not interface with your game in any way, unlike Windower, where SE could theoretically go after both users and developers. SE has no "jurisdiction" over other things you do with your computer, like visiting web sites, that have no interdependence with your copy of FFXI, even if they provide info about the game.

SE may not be able to take legal action against someone who uses FFXIAH, but that doesn't mean it isn't against the ToS. You're being shady by saying "oh it's just the owners that get in trouble!" Again have some

What does ToS stand for? Terms of Service. It is a contract, and in contract law you cannot enforce an obligation without offering value in return. The ToS is enforceable because in return for your refraining from use of any cheat devices for FFXI, among other things, they agree to let you play the game on their servers.

ffxiah.com does not have a contract with SE (that I know of); therefore, no "ToS" applies to it.

Terms of Service means the garuntee/stipulations for using their product. The ToS basically states what you are protected against losing your account (Retarded example: you will not lose your account for being fat) and what you can lose your account without SE getting sued over (IE USING 3RD PARTY PROGRAMS THAT ANALYZE DATA).

SE won't do it, just as much as they won't ban windower users, but they are FULLY within their right to ban someone if they could prove they were using FFXIAH, and they could not get sued for it. That is what the ToS means.

Distance, for example, is not in-game info. It is extracted (and calculated?) from memory only by third party programs. The same applies to alliance MP bars, exact % health bars, visualization of objects behind walls. Windower goes further, affecting input of game commands. That you would compare it with the tabulation of auction house history data that any mule can display is appalling.

This post just further proves how little you know about windower.


1. All those you listed are plugins for windower. You don't have to get ANY of them. Windower itself is just like SE's windowed mode. If you refuse to separate windower from plugins then you have NO argument because that's not what it is.


2.Fun fact: Distance gives you what Xbox users have. Xbox users can see a farther distance that ps2 + pc players, and distance even gives you autoset between normal and xbox distance.

3. Asking someone to announce their tp in pt is no different than making a mule to see the AH, you are just fooling yourself royally to think otherwise.


Again SE COULD ban windower users just as much as they could ban FFXIAH viewers/owner from the game. Ye without sin cast the first stone.

[urat]

SE can ban anyone the hell they want to, they dont actually need any reason to ban you, and trying to use a "windower can get you banned cause its against TOS" reasoning is flawed because of this.

If SE wanted to ban you for using windower they would not need any reasoning otherwise behind it. They don't need to morally prove it, it doesn't actually need to be in the TOS, they can just outright ban you cause they feel like it.

So yeah they can ban you for using windower. They can also ban you for being a size 3 taru for all SE cares. The one and only reason SE isn't banning people for using windower is actually rather simple.

The use of windower doesnt make the game unfair to the point that players are quitting, thus making SE lose profit. As long as the money lost for banning people using windower < money gained from players staying because of a level playing field, they will not ban windower use.

And the incline of said balance needs to be high enough to verify the mountains of paperwork GMs and etc would have to go through to exact all the bannings.

This is why things like POS hacking, fish botting, and claim botting ARE bannable, as players who play "legitely" will quit the game due to feeling cheated out of their money/hard work/time/effort/theshitMMOsarebuilt on, thus SE loses money, thus they have 2 choices, ban the people using these bots and lose their money, or let them continue and suck up the losses of people quitting due to unfair playing field.

Then there was salvage bans, I think that was just SE rolling up its sleeves and saying "K guys, Im serious here, stop it," a slap on the wrist if you will.

So, for example, you wonder why SE isn't honestly cracking down on claim botting? How much money you think SE would lose if they banned everyone that claim botted?

[Baha]

Gee, any game developer now wishing to create a wall that can't be seen through would need to cloud-source the renderer or code for 2D... As if! FPS servers have since the advent of 3D been pruning wireframe cheaters with either client monitoring or server-side heuristics.

Oh, you're not going to pull a Baha and claim this to be grey-area or some such, are ya? I know you can hack video drivers - that is obviously irrelevant. I know you can refrain from typing 'fillmode' - that is no defense.

Please, do twist what I say in what you want it to mean. I think it's cheating, I don't use it, nor have I been tempted to. Some people might argue it is not, hence I claim it as a gray area, as perceived by the community (but yes, most would consider it cheating).

I'd like you to stop wagging your finger for a second to see that there's more involved here than just black and white. Stuff got ported over from windower already, thus it's suddenly not a heinous crime but a matter of convienence? It's morally wrong for anyone to want to press one button to do a WS with all gearswaps back and forth as opposed to five? Against the ToS, sure, morally wrong? No. Should SE implement a comparable system? Yes.

What Windower can do to FFXI makes for the playing field uneven. The proof is how many people express their dependence on Windower for game-play, not aesthetic, reasons. When it changes gameplay "just for you," it's a cheat.

Oh, you would LOVE the salvage dat swaps.

Let's not think it unobvious why this thread is 5 pages. If SE split servers into Windower and non-Windower, a bunch of people would be trying to trick their way into the latter. Some who fail might even go around the former whining that they were misdetected. Oh, the inborn immorality of the nascent mind.

You're delusional.

1) You know a lot about marijuana for using it once before learning you were allergic.
2) A BG thread is a great way to learn the truth about marijuana.
3) Funny, some people in that thread do believe it to be a menace. Your point?

Most have no experience with the other side of the coin and are thus likely to be either doing a lot of assuming or parroting an opinion they they heard from their favourite media outlet.

Spoiler: show

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nabis-laws.png

Meanwhile, a report from the UNODC shows that hard drug use isn't any higher in countries where cannabis is legal or decriminalized, it's not even unusual for it to be lower than in countries with a hardline policy.

An ongoing discussion on drug abuse is still relevant (Holland for example is having problems with the surge of drug tourists, and recently banned mushrooms), but citing the stepping stone theory as fact, and somehow generally accepted is, at best very dated.

Distance, for example, is not in-game info. It is extracted (and calculated?) from memory only by third party programs. The same applies to alliance MP bars, exact % health bars, visualization of objects behind walls. Windower goes further, affecting input of game commands. That you would compare it with the tabulation of auction house history data that any mule can display is appalling.

Tpparty simply removes the need for a lot of blatantly annoying partychat spam just to SC.
Like Ksandra said: the app that preceded the plugin DrawDistance expanded your field of view to the 360 version (or beyond) and was even called 360something if I recall.

SE's interface is woefully lacking and they have made a miserable attempt to port over some of the functionality that community projects have offered for a long, long time.

Their own botched windower, the joke of an extended macro system, the autosort. All years after a community solution did it, and did it better. SE doesn't give UI the attention it requires, perfectly illustrated by status icons. You're telling me one dude in his bedroom can make a new icon for every new JA or debuff literally days after the release of the patch adding them, but SE can't? Please.

[Wrish]

SE may not be able to take legal action against someone who uses FFXIAH, but that doesn't mean it isn't against the ToS. You're being shady by saying "oh it's just the owners that get in trouble!"...
they are FULLY within their right to ban someone if they could prove they were using FFXIAH, and they could not get sued for it

We know that SE can terminate accounts without reason, but to say an action is against the ToS, you must provide a reason from within the ToS.

If you could provide such a reason, then why can't SE take legal action using contract law? Perhaps laws are outdated. But more likely, there is a good policy reason blocking a cause of action. Namely, SE cannot condition its provision of the gaming service on unrelated things you do with your life - like surfing web sites, no matter how relevant to the game, or chatting with fellow gamers, or cleaning your room and brushing your teeth.

Terms of Service means the garuntee/stipulations for using their product. The ToS basically states what you are protected against losing your account

There is literally no such protection, but in practice, if they can't come up with a decent, believable reason (which doesn't need to be stated in ToS), they open themselves up to accusations of contrived reasons that could get them in trouble. Oh, and believability boils down to what a jury would determine. That you were provably surfing some web site about cheats that anyone can access is NOT a decent reason; they'd need to show knowledge of your installing something from that site that interferes with the game.

1. All those you listed are plugins for windower. You don't have to get ANY of them. Windower itself is just like SE's windowed mode. If you refuse to separate windower from plugins then you have NO argument because that's not what it is.

I believe fillmode, a particularly strong case of cheating, requires no plug-in.

2.Fun fact: Distance gives you what Xbox users have. Xbox users can see a farther distance that ps2 + pc players, and distance even gives you autoset between normal and xbox distance.

Some people already informed me of the distinction between Distance and DrawDistance. Here I am referring not to DrawDistance, but to the feature that shows you are 12.6' from the flan casting -aga3. It's in game memory, but the game does not normally display it; forcing its display is cheating because you use that knowledge to alter your chances of getting hit by abilities/spells/melee while kiting forward.

3. Asking someone to announce their tp in pt is no different than making a mule to see the AH, you are just fooling yourself royally to think otherwise.

If this were a program that let you view AH without a mule, whereas other people would've had to make one, that would be cheating on grounds of unfairness. But this is a web site anyone with the basic hardware can access.

I'd like you to stop wagging your finger for a second to see that there's more involved here than just black and white. Stuff got ported over from windower already, thus it's suddenly not a heinous crime but a matter of convienence? It's morally wrong for anyone to want to press one button to do a WS with all gearswaps back and forth as opposed to five? Against the ToS, sure, morally wrong? No. Should SE implement a comparable system? Yes.

I did previously indict you on moral ineptitude; why don't you explicate your moral determinations instead of asking me to take your word?

When something gets ported for everyone, the issue of unfairness becomes moot. SE as the developer can change gameplay as they wish, but a third-party has no such right. We can petition SE to make changes, but until they do, we cannot forge ahead unchecked.

Oh, you would LOVE the salvage dat swaps.

Salvage dat swaps differentiating cell-dropping monsters are obviously cheats. Nothing groundbreaking.

You're telling me one dude in his bedroom can make a new icon for every new JA or debuff literally days after the release of the patch adding them, but SE can't? Please.

One dude in his bedroom cares not for the ToS. Just because he can make your character run like a clown doesn't mean SE doesn't do the same for lack of coding expertise.

Meanwhile, a report from the UNODC shows that hard drug use isn't any higher in countries where cannabis is legal or decriminalized, it's not even unusual for it to be lower than in countries with a hardline policy.

Well, don't show me that. If you had read me closely you'd know that's exactly what I would predict. "It's not a gateway drug once it's legalized." Don't take my use of a popular term to mean I conform to stereotypes of the opposition debate.

As long as the money lost for banning people using windower < money gained from players staying because of a level playing field, they will not ban windower use.

And the incline of said balance needs to be high enough to verify the mountains of paperwork GMs and etc would have to go through to e[red]n[/red]act all the bannings.

We need to stop presuming they're omniscient - all they know about people leaving because of windower is from complaints stating so. It's a guessing game for them, too.

Speaking of Mt. Paperwork, their weekly RMT sweeps look rather effortless. I think Windower bannings would be, too, were they to automate detection.

[tonystigma]

SE only indirectly shuts down web sites, and it pays dearly to do so.

Flat-out fucking wrong. SE just killed FFXI-App, which is most definitely a cheating tool. They are perfectly aware of Windower, and they haven't taken (successful) action against them. So they don't hate Windower nearly as much as you do. Why? Pride. You think you're somehow a better player by NOT using it, which is the most ass-backwards logic I've ever come across. Get off your high horse, admit you're not going to win this battle, and never log into BG again.

[tonystigma]

Actually, this debate has gotten so diluted over time. Let's jump back to the beginning.

It's a slippery slope. And an ethical issue. And breaking the TOS.

There is no slippery slope (do you know what that means?) and no ethical issue (if you get over yourself and realize it's a fucking video game). The TOS has been debated enough.

Countless people have slipped and gotten caught by SE. People make assumptions that SE can't detect it. Assumptions that SE won't change its policy on who it catches.

SE doesn't bother detecting it. People who "slipped" either got reported to a GM by some butthurt asshole like you or were botting. Windower has been out for years, they know it's used, it would be a massive surprise for them to change policy now.

It takes time to set things up, and patience to wait for windower updates when a patch breaks things. That's all time I spend progressing in the game.

You aren't forced to use Windower once you've installed it, dipshit. You can log in to vanilla POL if an update "broke" it. Also, since you've spent so long "progressing" where windower users haven't, let's see your pimped character.

[Ksandra]

We know that SE can terminate accounts without reason, but to say an action is against the ToS, you must provide a reason from within the ToS.

I already stated a reason several times, it analyzes data taken from the game. Stop ignoring that.

If you could provide such a reason, then why can't SE take legal action using contract law? Perhaps laws are outdated. But more likely, there is a good policy reason blocking a cause of action. Namely, SE cannot condition its provision of the gaming service on unrelated things you do with your life - like surfing web sites, no matter how relevant to the game, or chatting with fellow gamers, or cleaning your room and brushing your teeth.

Because a ToS isn't a strong contract law. It has little to do with law. It is strictly the statements in which YOU CAN LOSE YOUR ACCOUNT ACCESS. That's it. It can condition whatever it wants. If SE wanted to state that no girls can play the game in the ToS, and your caught as a girl even if that has nothing to do with the game, they can terminate your account and cite the ToS. That's it. Stop pretending like it's something grand, all it is is the major reasons as to what you can lose your account over.

If SE wants to sue these places and have it shut down more often or not they don't even use the ToS, because it's considered that if you cancel their account then the contract did what it is stated to do (terminate if didn't follow the rules). They usually have to sight copyright infringement.

There is literally no such protection, but in practice, if they can't come up with a decent, believable reason (which doesn't need to be stated in ToS), they open themselves up to accusations of contrived reasons that could get them in trouble. Oh, and believability boils down to what a jury would determine. That you were provably surfing some web site about cheats that anyone can access is NOT a decent reason; they'd need to show knowledge of your installing something from that site that interferes with the game.

What on earth are you talking about? They don't take ever person they terminate to court. Stop blowing this out of proportion, it's not the end of the word if you lose your account.

I believe fillmode, a particularly strong case of cheating, requires no plug-in.

http://www.windower.net/windower/lite

Since you know so little:

A very minimalistic build of Windower that does not include any plugin or scripting support. The only thing it does is window the game.

If you want to use Plugins or Windower Scripting, you must use Windower 3.42 (Latest)


If you want to have a good defense then you need to learn this shit....

Some people already informed me of the distinction between Distance and DrawDistance. Here I am referring not to DrawDistance, but to the feature that shows you are 12.6' from the flan casting -aga3. It's in game memory, but the game does not normally display it; forcing its display is cheating because you use that knowledge to alter your chances of getting hit by abilities/spells/melee while kiting forward.

the game does display it, the scan on the bottom left of your screen, it even gives you line differences!

Again too I am not saying Windower isn't against the ToS, I was mostly showing you are a complete hypocrite by using FFXIAH, because it's displaying the ah for you when you're not actually at the AH.

I can't believe you can't see this distinction.

If this were a program that let you view AH without a mule, whereas other people would've had to make one,

THEY DO. PEOPLE WITHOUT INTERNET ACCESS WHILE INGAME HAVE TO MAKE A MULE, WHEREAS YOU DON'T NEED ONE. Stupid example is completely stupid.

[LordTrey2]

Doesn't all this crap not matter? Windower keeps people playing, SE gets money from that, so windower = money for SE. Why the hell would they want to get less money?

I wish i had a business that people wanted to exist so badly they would, on their own time and for 0 dollars, renovate as much of my business as they could. Fly by night painters or carpertlayers that work for free and are worried about increasing the quality of my work sounds like the best people in the world. If anything they are morally praiseworthy for their actions benefit others with little personal reward.

[Feedmenow]

Doesn't all this crap not matter? Windower keeps people playing, SE gets money from that, so windower = money for SE. Why the hell would they want to get less money?

I wish i had a business that people wanted to exist so badly they would, on their own time and for 0 dollars, renovate as much of my business as they could. Fly by night painters or carpertlayers that work for free and are worried about increasing the quality of my work sounds like the best people in the world. If anything they are morally praiseworthy for their actions benefit others with little personal reward.

This is why most PC devs openly support modding or custom maps in their games. It's something neat that they essentially get for free.

[Wrish]

I already stated a reason several times, it analyzes data taken from the game.

Look, the ToS never applied to ffxiah.com because ffxiah.com never opened a POL account. There is no connection between the Pol/FFXI ToS and ffxiah.com, just as there is no connection between those ToS and an exclusive WoW player or a prospective player perusing playonline.com. If SE wants to incapacitate ffxiah.com, they could start by closing the loophole that allows an unauthenticated computer to read auction house data.

The ToS also lacks dominion over ffxiah.com visitation because the ToS only governs your copy of the game and programs and hardware that interact with it. ffxiah.com does not interact with your copy of the game. ffxiah.com will give you details on Seraph even if your only content ID is on Sylph or even if you've never purchased FFXI to have a ToS to agree to.

Additionally, the data polled cannot be construed as game data. If it were interpretable as game data, then the ToS would also forbid players from standing at the AH and analyzing the price of items.

Because a ToS isn't a strong contract law. It has little to do with law.

The ToS is grounded in law. It may be poorly written thanks to ill-trained lawyers, but if something affects you that goes against civil law in your jurisdiction, you can take SE to court over an unconscionable ToS, like one excluding girls from gameplay (sex discrimination). Sure, they can ban you to start, but they'd better get ready to pay millions when contingent-fee lawyers start offering you free representation. They'd also better prepare to reverse your ban under threat of contempt of court.

A very minimalistic build of Windower

Was I talking about Windower lite? No, I was talking about Windower, which alone lets you disperse walls. Not that your link specifies anything about lite support for fillmode.

If SE wants to sue these places and have it shut down more often or not they don't even use the ToS, because it's considered that if you cancel their account

They can't even use the ToS. With no account to terminate the agreement with, you'd have an unconditional binding document, and the only such documents are called laws. SE cannot write common law; only courts and legislatures can.

They don't take ever person they terminate to court.

If they ban you without good cause, you would be the one considering a lawsuit. Why would they sue you? They already closed your account and want nothing to do with you.

the game does display it, the scan on the bottom left of your screen, it even gives you line differences!

Only certain jobs (that can be set as subjobs) even show a red dot for a monster. And even then, it is a visual estimate, not the quantitative certainty that Distance offers. The extra precision is information never displayed by the normal game; therefore, it's cheating! If you had that precision already, why would there need to be a Distance plug-in?

THEY DO. PEOPLE WITHOUT INTERNET ACCESS WHILE INGAME HAVE TO MAKE A MULE, WHEREAS YOU DON'T NEED ONE.

YOU NEED INTERNET ACCESS TO EVEN PLAY THIS GAME. The multitasking problem for console owners is a platform issue that has naught to deal with the ToS, as you provide the hardware and OS license, not SE.

AND WHY WOULD THEY LOG INTO A MULE WHEN THEY CAN JUST LOG OUT AND OPEN A BROWSER?

I feel like I'm repeating myself at times. Aren't you here just to watch me write?