Writing Macros

[Deader2818]

So, if I can access FFXI by not having to go though POL, I could do whatever as the TOS only applies to POL and not FFXI its self?


Wouldnt you say FFXIAH is an unfair advantage as someone can spend less time looking up items on the AH and controlling the market then someone who would have to sit at the AH and look up each item one by one to try and make money playing the AH game? I mean after all, time is money.

If I don't own a PC and only play this game on PS2/360,I wouldnt be able to take advantage of this tool.

[Ksandra]

I think he just wants the last word, but I'll leave it at this, Windower lite is windower dipwad the windower you want to hate against is windower lite with plugins....seriously look up this stuff if you want people to take you seriously at all.


My gosh, everything you say just shows how little you know and how little you refuse to know...

[Wrish]

So, if I can access FFXI by not having to go though POL, I could do whatever as the TOS only applies to POL and not FFXI its self?

FFXI has a ToS.

If you could get in without authenticating, then ToS wouldn't apply - it would be moot. However, much more serious RL laws may apply for breaching security and accessing secured systems. The auction house reporting servers, AFAIK, are unsecured.

Wouldnt you say FFXIAH is an unfair advantage as someone can spend less time looking up items on the AH and controlling the market then someone who would have to sit at the AH and look up each item one by one to try and make money playing the AH game? I mean after all, time is money.

You're claiming unfair gameplay advantage over handicapped hardware that doesn't let you visit any site while gaming. That is not SE's issue. There are map and reference sites that, too, save you time if you don't have to log out to access them.

[Wrish]

I think he just wants the last word, but I'll leave it at this, Windower lite is windower dipwad the windower you want to hate against is windower lite with plugins....seriously look up this stuff if you want people to take you seriously at all.

Hey now, don't start a semantic argument with someone who expressly doesn't use Windower. If lite is merely the core app without plugins, then it has fillmode, too. And if it doesn't have fillmode, then it's not just stripped of plugins, as you say.

[Deader2818]

Hmm, sounds to me you are just making up ways to get around your own bullshit morals.

SE put this game on handicapped hardware that doesn't let you visit any site while gaming, sounds like their issue to me.

Hell for the longest time they have used PS2 as an excuse as to why they can't do things. One of which is not being able to make a windowed mode for PC users.

[tonystigma]

everything you say just shows how little you know and how little you refuse to know...

No kidding, he's like a 9-11 truther.

[Wrish]

Hmm, sounds to me you are just making up ways to get around your own bullshit morals.

SE put this game on handicapped hardware that doesn't let you visit any site while gaming, sounds like their issue to me.

Hell for the longest time they have used PS2 as an excuse as to why they can't do things. One of which is not being able to make a windowed mode for PC users.

I never came here to argue about SE's morals. Pages could be argued about the morals of any big business. But they are the developer. If you mean to tell me they shouldn't have developed for consoles at all, have it your way; no one's forcing you to stay on the game or stick to a console.

[Deader2818]

Sure sounds like you are trying to force people to not use windower though.

[Gethsemane]

If it is true what you say about the Auction House servers being unsecured and easily accessible; I'm not sure why I actually haven't went down this path before with Wireshark and other internet traffic analyzers. You have definitely sparked my interests now. Guess I'll have to do some exploratory stuff. Regardless, Windower is a dumb debate. FFXI on PS2 is a piece of shit. Anyone playing on a PS2 is already at a disadvantage. MMOs and consoles do not mix. I own a PS3 and a PC and can positively say I won't be buying FFXIV for PS3. The only thing that would get me to buy it for PS3 is voice chat kind of like Xbox360's but also supported for the game in a sense. But anyways, off to mess with the Auction House servers if this is true, ciao.

Oh yeah just got done seeing Zombieland. Definitely one of the funniest movies of 2009. Specially this clip: NSFW

[Wrish]

Wireshark will show a TCP exchange with a different server than the ones exchanging UDP data. The latter servers stop contact when you lose authentication for some time, but the former remain responsive. Still, the packets are encoded; it takes some work to translate the item numbers to understandable item names, for example.

[Forte]

My god people. Fuck.

I just wanted to know if I could manually edit my macros or not. I got my answer.

People bitching about Windower and Windower Users: SE fails. I completely get why they use it. I agree that I don't ever want to use it because the less I violate the TOS the better. But still, shut up. People can use it if they want to, and take the risks themselves.

People bitching about people who don't use Windower: SE may be a sack of dicks, but their TOS is still there. Yeah, they may never act on it, but it's better not to take chances some times. That and playing a game legitimately, even if that means potentially gimping yourself, is still a valid way to play the fucking game. So shut up.

Lock thread. Fuck.

[Gethsemane]

My god people. Fuck.

I just wanted to know if I could manually edit my macros or not. I got my answer.

People bitching about Windower and Windower Users: SE fails. I completely get why they use it. I agree that I don't ever want to use it because the less I violate the TOS the better. But still, shut up. People can use it if they want to, and take the risks themselves.

People bitching about people who don't use Windower: SE may be a sack of dicks, but their TOS is still there. Yeah, they may never act on it, but it's better not to take chances some times. That and playing a game legitimately, even if that means potentially gimping yourself, is still a valid way to play the fucking game. So shut up.

Lock thread. Fuck.

Well to be honest since I've been playing again I haven't touched Windower. It probably makes it more exciting on the replay value by having to do slightly more work and knowing I'm at a disadvantage but to each their own. I don't care who uses Windower really. The game is in the best shape it's ever been the last 5 years with gil being easier to make albeit not as much but. Also leveling is easier. You could stay in dunes to 75 or you could go level in other areas by choice. Final Fantasy XI is in its golden age in my opinion. And here people are talking doom and gloom with 14 coming out too.

[urat]

I still don't get how windower gives you any notable advantage. Maybe for getting the perfect shot on your magic, cause even ranged attacks have messages that tell you if your at the right distance now.

All I can see is TPparty, which I have to admit is really nice for SCing when farming ws points with a friend.

Most of the major issues with windower is the fact it grants a user access to other 3rd party programs, but those aren't even windower.

SE won't ban you for using windower on its own, but any of the programs that you can use with it are bannable. Well if you get a GM that gets off their ass to actually ban you, cause apparently even with blatant evidence against you a GM won't ban you, if anyone would know I would XP

So what, you really think its that morally wrong to judge a distance from a monster and known your pt members tp? Well you don't NEED to use those plugins, you know that?

If you really want to stick with the SE windower that's fine, but using flawed logic to support it is silly, just say you prefer it and thats all, I agree windower does have flaws that SEs doesn't, but so does the other way around.

[Wrish]

I still don't get how windower gives you any notable advantage.

You'd encounter much less resistance by observing people.

Tons of player use Windower, yet they have to keep it a secret in the game, because it's against the rules and SE continually reaffirms that. If there were no notable advantage (or if conscience were universal), it wouldn't be popular. And people wouldn't raise a ruckus over its morality.

cause apparently even with blatant evidence against you a GM won't ban you

Any corporate experience tells you that GM's are bound by very strict rules on what they can use as evidence, as they are not jurists to decide the fallibility of seeming proof, and as one mistake can cost dearly.

If you really want to stick with the SE windower that's fine, but using flawed logic to support it is silly, just say you prefer it and thats all

Morality has nothing to do with personal preference, and it never should.

[Ksandra]

yet personal preferences makes you think it's ok to use ffxiah!


You still haven't won that argument.

[Wrish]

yet personal preferences makes you think it's ok to use ffxiah!


You still haven't won that argument.

Logic and morals are what I used to explain that it's completely okay to use ffxiah. If I gave personal preference arguments, you'd know how I use the site, but as of now you don't. I'll let others' auspices decide who won whatever argument, and as well you can question a SGM on whether the ToS applies to your visiting external web sites. Here to recap:

(1) If ffxiah gives PC players an advantage, so does Windower, and so does Allakazham.
(2) If ffxiah's analyzing sales data breaks the ToS, so does manually viewing AH data.
(3) If ffxiah were covered by the ToS, so could the terms dictate your TV usage.
(4) You don't need FFXI on the same device to make use of ffxiah, but you do need it to make use of Windower.
(5) Owning a console is not the reason you can't visit ffxiah; not owning a computer is.

My gosh, everything you say just shows how little you know and how little you refuse to know...

Thank thee for such forward-looking optimism.

[Ksandra]

Logic and morals are what I used to explain that it's completely okay to use ffxiah. If I gave personal preference arguments, you'd know how I use the site, but as of now you don't. I'll let others' auspices decide who won whatever argument, and as well you can question a SGM on whether the ToS applies to your visiting external web sites. Here to recap:

(1) If ffxiah gives PC players an advantage, so does Windower, and so does Allakazham.
(2) If ffxiah's analyzing sales data breaks the ToS, so does manually viewing AH data.
(3) If ffxiah were covered by the ToS, so could the terms dictate your TV usage.
(4) You don't need FFXI on the same device to make use of ffxiah, but you do need it to make use of Windower.
(5) Owning a console is not the reason you can't visit ffxiah; not owning a computer is.


Thank thee for such forward-looking optimism.

And yet none of that changes the fact that :

Usage of a 3rd party programs is defined as usage of a program, made and distributed by an individual other then Square Enix, which impacts the game play in any way.

analyzing game data,

- Use of any unofficial program to the benefit of any users.

applies to FFXIAH.


Your preference is to use a program you want while being on a high horse against those that use a program you don't want.

aka: hypocrite

[Wrish]

I think it is abundantly clear that the 3rd party "program" in the ToS must operate installed on your local computer or network that runs FFXI; else, it would not be "distributed." FFXIAH code resides on a far-off server plus a few developers' machines. You may derive the fruits of that programming but you do not have direct access to the programs.

Point #2 clearly throws a wrench in your calling AH data "game data."

You cannot take words in the ToS out of context, slighting common sense to derive outlandish rules; the contract, however vaguely worded, is read as a whole.

If you read it piecemeal:

(1) An antivirus/firewall is an unofficial program that lessens the chance of downtime and account security breaches when playing FFXI.
(2) A web browser is an unofficial program that lets you access wikis and game forums that let you exchange hints about the game to the benefit of your gameplay. (Yeah, you stop surfing here on New Year's, or any other time!)
(3) A calculator is a device or program that helps you analyze game data.
(4) You can't even gear yourself up. Aesthetics? Textures are game data. Effectiveness? Mechanics are game data.

[Ksandra]

[QUOTE=Wrish;3361126]I think it is abundantly clear that the 3rd party "program" in the ToS must operate installed on your local computer or network that runs FFXI; else, it would not be "distributed." FFXIAH code resides on a far-off server plus a few developers' machines. You may derive the fruits of that programming but you do not have direct access to the programs.[/wuote]

only clear to you so you can be a hypocrite, I read it completely different than you do.

Point #2 clearly throws a wrench in your calling AH data "game data."

Are you seriously trying to imply all the points have to exist to be against the ToS? Seriouslys? Those points are ORs not ANDs, nice try to weasel out of it.

You cannot take words in the ToS out of context, slighting common sense to derive outlandish rules; the contract, however vaguely worded, is read as a whole.

I was highlighting the important parts that you keep ignoring, again those bullets are ORs not ANDS.

If you read it piecemeal:

(1) An antivirus/firewall is an unofficial program that lessens the chance of downtime and account security breaches when playing FFXI.
(2) A web browser is an unofficial program that lets you access wikis and game forums that let you exchange hints about the game to the benefit of your gameplay. (Yeah, you stop surfing here on New Year's, or any other time!)
(3) A calculator is a device or program that helps you analyze game data.
(4) You can't even gear yourself up. Aesthetics? Textures are game data. Effectiveness? Mechanics are game data.

As much as it sounds retarded yes if SE really wants to use it as an excuse they can on all you mention. The reason they wouldn't is if they banned people for using calculators, they'd have no player base.


It brings to mind the whole WoW language issue. Blizzard is HUGE on trying to keep the translations of the two languages (Alliance and Horde) a secret. I remember specifically when it first came out they had sites shut down that displayed full on translations of them. (Not sure if they still go after people, but they were successful in the beginning, I haven't paid attention lately).

Of course they let small things like "LOL" get by, but obviously if you talk to each other in game you get the ban hammer, and equally they target any site that displays how it works.

This is the same deal with FFXIAH except SE chooses not to take action the same way it chooses not to take action against Windower.

They are both, however, against the ToS, and you are still a hypocrite.

[Carrilei]

I still don't get how windower gives you any notable advantage. Maybe for getting the perfect shot on your magic, cause even ranged attacks have messages that tell you if your at the right distance now.

Much of what windower grants is convenience - such as AutoExec loading your job-specific macros when changing jobs.. However, it ranges from pure convenience to flat-out cheating.. Let's keep going - extended macros, surely the idea behind it is convenience yes? And I'd agree, but compared to someone who has to hit 3 macros to perform one action, you're able to do it faster. Fail on SE's part, but now you're starting to perform better (quicker) than someone not using.

What's next? How about Precognition - a shadow counter that would be just for convenience, if not for the fact that windower's Precognition gets you the information on if a shadow was consumed 2-3 seconds before you'd receive that info normally.. Windower could've chosen not to give such a blatant advantage, but they did. Finally we come to fillmode, allowing you to see through walls. Granted this won't help with most of the things you're doing, but in the instances that it does, I don't know if there's a more blatant, obvious form of cheating.

Of course these are just a few examples, but I think this covers the sliding scale that is "just for convenience - - - - - only there to gain an advantage."