Regarding Malicious Third-Party Programs used in FINAL FANTASY XI (12/24/2009)

[Kyreth]

I don't think you realize how many people bot. Claim bots, craft bots, fish bots. If they were serious about it, we're talking 3-4 servers worth of people easily. Think about it. At least one full ls per server plus other botters. Also, like it or not, windower and all the accesories like ap radar are equally against the rules as botting are. Everyone who thinks they're above botters, the tos doesn't discriminate. ALL third party apps are against the tos. Personally, I think people who ignore the fact that windower is against the rules too are the arrogant ones. I await them going on a crusade. I have my WoW account ready if I get banned.

Oddly enough, I think FFXI would be better without -all- the botters and 3PP's.

Claim bots, craft bots, fish bots, radar, stuff that fucks with the game in a way that the non-botters are left at a significant disadvantage.

Even if it meant the total game population dropped by thousands or tens of thousands. But I really do think this is practice for keeping FFXIV cleaner than FFXI was, from day 1.

And if means app creators/users get public ass reamings for doing so, all the better. Take your virtual steroids and GTFO of all MMO's.

And I'm clean. No apps, not even Windower on FFXI, nothing outside the TOS for WoW. I find playing within the limits is more fun than watching l33t assholes ezmode and get in my way when I play.

[Silenka]

Au contraire, I think FFXI would be a lot shittier (I probably wouldn't play anymore) without windower. Not being able to alt tab? Forget it. Not being able to tweak my graphics to the utmost possible so the game doesn't look like shit? Forget it. Other plugins, nice, but not necessary. SE's windowed mode is garbage. They can't code for shit.

Do I think windower gives PC users an unfair advantage? No. Windower plugins make things EASIER for the player, they do NOT make things possible that were previously impossible. SE itself can't be buggerd to fix their own fucking game so if the players decide to take matters into their own hands then I will damn well use it. Third party program or not, Windower pretty much makes the game for PC. This is not a claimbot, this is not a fishbot or fleehack, this is not something that causes your economies to crash and your friends to be caught up in ls drama. It's just a sprucing up of the graphics, ability to do other things on your PC while playing or idling, and calculator for things that are already pretty fucking easy to figure out such as distance, recasts, xp/hr and TP.

tl;dr people who call windower an evil 3rd party program are either jealous because they're not on pc, or confused about exactly what windower plugins do. They also make me extremely cranky. All I can deduce is that they ENJOY playing in an inferior way like the guy above me. Work smarter, not harder. >.>

[NynJa]

And I'm clean. No apps, not even Windower on FFXI, nothing outside the TOS for WoW. I find playing within the limits is more fun than watching l33t assholes ezmode and get in my way when I play.

Enjoy your 1500$ ps2? Because thats all your PC is if you play without windower.

[Julian]

I don't know if you realise this, but FFXI really went to shit after the January bannings. Maybe you didn't notice it because you hang around in shit shells or something, but virtually any prominent player who isn't a retard will tell you exactly the same thing. This is coming from someone who still plays actively, not a butthurt ban-ee. And no, before you say it, I'm not saying that the only good shells are, as you would put it, "cheating" shells. High horse time is well and truly over in this day and age, save it for when FFXIV-App comes out.

I beg to differ.

Also, I don't think I ever used any term like "cheating linkshell", if people want to cheat, that's their decision. All I ever said was that they should be aware of the possible consequences, and be ready to accept them if they ever have to. And I also said that if such a thing did happen, the game would still move on. It's still moving on after the salvage bans, and it will continue to move on. I personally don't mind the fact that there's less competition and that other groups are falling apart. Also don't plan on playing ff14

I don't think I'm riding any high horse, I use windower and spellcast, if they ever decide to ban me for it, they can do whatever they want. Windower/spellcast is something that I don't want to play without, and I'll fully accept the consequences if it ever comes to it. If people want to replace windower/spellcast with bots, eh, do whatever you want, it's your account on the line.

[Kingkai]

I think the thing that is still missing is the fact that Civil judgements do not incur jail time, that is strictly limited to criminal offenses.

He wasn't being sued at the time, he received a cease and desist, which means "Stop doing that or we will sue you". To submit a request for discovery you need a case. This means they can't request his list without a case, if it were deleted when he received a cease and desist, that means he did nothing wrong. Try and change the wording any way you want, but you can't be asked for said list without a case, plain and simple.

As for the original subject, nowhere in the basic context of what SE said referenced a mass ban for anyone PREVIOUSLY using a program that has ALREADY been shut down. Those of us who use english know that we separate topics with paragraphs. Paragraph one "We shut him down" and paragraph 2, "We are going to hit other ppl who make software and the users of that software". In no way will that ever translate to the 2 sections of that warning being about mass bannings of ppl for using old software.

This entire thread started with people reading things into a Press release by SE that it just didn't say..

"Summary of the SE press release for dummies"

We shut down someone who wrote applications that allowed you to cheat.

We are getting ready to do it again, but this time ban the users too. Stop cheating.


How much of this is true, who the hell knows, scaring ppl, maybe?

[Kipling]

Drwaffles, you are probably the stupidest poster I've ever seen post just from the posts I've seen not in this thread. But my god, did you solidify it here.

Yes a lot of good ambitious players were banned. It sucks, the linkshell I was in at the time got ruined over it. But you were a medicore player at best in a shitty uae shell, get over it.

Oh and inb4 you say I wasn't dupe banned for a reason. Yeah, I wasn't doing salvage at all at the time when it became popular.

[drwaffles]

You can call me all manner of things and they might have some truth in them, but "stupid" is most definitely not one. If you're going to attack me, at least make somewhat legitimate accusations.

[drwaffles]

Hell, if I wanted to take pot shots at you I'd call you a suck-up, an ass-kisser, a wannabe and someone with an undeserved sense of self-importance, but I wouldn't be dumb enough to claim that you're not a pretty intelligent person. Although that's now being called into question considering the content of your latest post.

[Trigun]

edit:wrong topic ><

[FailureMidgard]

Just want to point out that it is most definitely not black and white, which is why there are varying punishments from a warning, to a temporary ban, to a permanent ban. The situation is taken into account, and most the time, it is decided by the opinion of an individual. Shades of gray exist, whether you want to believe they do or not.

Also, sorry, anyone who thinks they are all that and the world can't go on without them, sorry, you're replaceable. I think outside of Kaeko, not a single person in the FFXI NA community has done a damned thing that matters in the large scheme of things. Things will be figured out at relatively the same rate, people will step up and fill holes that are created. It's just natural. I don't see any point to sitting here and calling people out, but even some of the top players here on BG that think they are all that (and rightfully are some of the best players in the game currently) didn't figure out the -best- strategy to use on certain fights. Our great BG Advanced Section single-handedly dismissed the proper way to lock AV.

Is the game dying? Maybe. Everquest started dying 5+ years ago. Oh, and just released another expansion. Yes, the population of this game may drop. But it's not going to make a damned difference to anyone who plays the game, ingame. It may make a difference to the community here, but they will just condense servers as people quit, and in fact it may REVIVE servers, as they see an increase in population. Is that really dying? /shrug.

[Thorny]

Oh and inb4 you say I wasn't dupe banned for a reason. Yeah, I wasn't doing salvage at all at the time when it became popular.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...4&postcount=34

Sure sounds to me like you weren't in on the dupe runs and never had the guts to make your own group, but hey. Shame for all of us, really.

[Kipling]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...4&postcount=34

Sure sounds to me like you weren't in on the dupe runs and never had the guts to make your own group, but hey. Shame for all of us, really.

You just reiterated what I said. What new information did you add by posting? I'm confused.

[Thorny]

You 'inb4'ed waffles by implying you didn't go by choice. It's obvious you weren't welcome going by the older post, and nobody told you about the trick.

[Kipling]

You 'inb4'ed waffles by implying you didn't go by choice. It's obvious you weren't welcome going by the older post, and nobody told you about the trick.

Rofl, what. Seeing things not even close to being implied for the win. When the trick was popular I was leveling jobs and doing other stuff not end game related, why would I be in on the trick? After I joined Vey's group leader Draken had just went MIA, and after vey got tired of waiting around for him to come back to ok me he just took over and let me join up with them.

For someone who maffz decently you logic/put things together badly.

[thetruepandagod]

yea having something auto claim a mob is doing the same amount of harm as a switching gear. Keep telling yourself that and it might come true.
.

Why do you ignore waffles who is actually right, also you dont even need to datswap or anything just get one person with a bot and then 30 people with windower and you can get a damn good spread of people that can auto claim.

Another thing that I find amusing is the fact that, through a combination of .dat swapping, the original version of Blinkmenot and a Windower script one can essentially camp and attempt to claim the three kings (the only mobs people, for some reason, seem to give a shit about when it comes to botting) in a totally automated fashion. If you did it with multiple people, you could even attempt to stagger delays via the scripts.

But yeah, Windower is a "good" TPP.

And to you,

To the individuals saying "It's too late, they should have done ______ earlier." They're not X years behind, they're about a year ahead. This isn't "They should have done this back in 2004." This is "They're sending a clear message to the users of thier game in 2010." Also note, I doubt Nasa and App was even available in 2004... So saying they should have done something about about something that doesn't exist is kinda wierd.

Say hi to various cracked jp bots and beta mr argus. People are saying SE is 5 years too late is BECAUSE SE IS 5 YEARS TOO LATE.


If people get banned for botting then so be it, if people get banned for windower so be it, there is zero difference between the two and neither group should be on a moral high horse over the other just because they view their own doings through rose colored glasses because they didn't have to pay for it.

[Yabby]

You are just a retard, but alas this topic has been beaten to death and going into detail is not worth it. After all no one here is worth a shit, we all have the same high horse sense everyone in this topic has told someone else to get off it. This has lost its luster.

[Kyreth]

Enjoy your 1500$ ps2? Because thats all your PC is if you play without windower.

Been enjoying it since the NA release, and everything else I play on it/surf the web/DL porn/whatever. Oddly enough, I use it for more than having FFXI open all day and night...

PS2/3 is for gaming only. I prefer having a more flexible machine, thus I play on a PC. I still get the full experience and I don't have to use "cheats" to get it,.

[NynJa]

Can your PC play other games / surf the web / download porn / talk on msn while you're playing FFXI without windower? Nope, 1500$ PS2.

[Yabby]

I tried to play without windower once. Kept MSN up.... crash in the middle of a tia thanks to some jackass PMing me.

[nivlac]

so this is how some ( or 99%) of endgame LS and players get their super duper great gear,
dam,
well i guess the bottom line SE is saying is , if you cheat, you'll get punished. ..
they are just trying to make the game fair for everybody i suppose.