Regarding Malicious Third-Party Programs used in FINAL FANTASY XI (12/24/2009)

[Yabby]

LOL Make sure your program doesn't copy any game data in the ram or your fucked. Section 117 doesn't protect shit.

edit: Quick question would a mobs ID be considered copyright of the video game?

[Bugpop]

check out

www.ffxiapp.com

Takes you to Playonline.com

[stewie]

It has for a while now.

[Mateuns7]

Any word on Arenz?
There was a link on lmxvii.net but Mafai apparently took it down.

[Bugpop]

LOL Make sure your program doesn't copy any game data in the ram or your fucked. Section 117 doesn't protect shit.

edit: Quick question would a mobs ID be considered copyright of the video game?

Facts and lists of facts are not copyrightable. An example would be a phone book. You can't copyright the information in a phone book.

[NynJa]

I'm not a lawyer and I don't even pretend to play one on the internet. Apparently it's possible in theory but there are no documented cases of it actually occurring.

Late night shredding session at my place!

Also I'd like to point out that FFXIAPP wound up getting the C/D not for what the program did, but for breach of copyright. By naming it ffxiapp and using screenshots from ffxi, that was SE's door.

[Aselin]

Facts and lists of facts are not copyrightable. An example would be a phone book. You can't copyright the information in a phone book.

From how I understood when reading copyright laws, the following are considered copyrighted in FFXI and trademarked by SE:

- Gil

- Characters-- NPCs and PCs

- artwork

- program code

- music

- weapons and armors

- methods of how certain functions works.

(Example: The algorithm used to display XML that Microsoft got sued over for in its Microsoft Word 2007 is patentable and copyrightable. In FFXI, this would be something akin to game mechanics and how the game communicates to and from the servers.)

If SE will go so far as to punish those who have purchased NASA, wizbot, or App, or whatever is out there, then they will probably follow in Blizzard's footsteps regarding that other bot for WoW-- Glider. It is a manipulation of the program code and the methods and functions of the how the game works.

Any modification or circumvention in that code is considered a violation of copyright laws put in place to protect that code. This is, of course, a gray area, especially when it comes to EULA and ToS. And, as seen in the screenshot above, yes, those are not laws and many times will not hold up in court. How Blizzard managed to do it was state that the bot was in violation of the DMCA:

"Blizzard contends that Glider violates the provision of the DMCA that prohibits "trafficking" in software that is "primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work" protected by copyright...

Blizzard argued, and Judge Campbell agreed, that when users violated the World of Warcraft EULA, they no longer had a license to play the game and were therefore guilty of copyright infringement."
Source: ArsTechnica

Blizzard ended up using the DMCA to make its case, and eventually won.

And, the only possible way to track anyone who purchased these bots is to follow the money trail, literally. If someone didn't pay cash and used something like a money order or cashier's check, they can be traceable if SE wants to go that far. You can't exactly hide $3000 paid out to someone unless you managed to do it "under the table" using cash only. Any one player who used a bank account or check or whatever can be tracked down. It's only a matter of time.

This method of tracking, of course, will incur more costs on SE's part if they want to prosecute and punish everyone out there. I don't think SE will go that far though. Then again, we had the mass Salvage bans from a year ago. A lot of the people who mentioned the dupe bug and exploited it haughtily laughed they won't get caught and looked at what happened to them.

[Bugpop]

From how I understood when reading copyright laws, the following are considered copyrighted in FFXI and trademarked by SE:

- Gil

- Characters-- NPCs and PCs

- artwork

- program code

- music

- weapons and armors

- methods of how certain functions works.

(Example: The algorithm used to display XML that Microsoft got sued over for in its Microsoft Word 2007 is patentable and copyrightable. In FFXI, this would be something akin to game mechanics and how the game communicates to and from the servers.)

If SE will go so far as to punish those who have purchased NASA, wizbot, or App, or whatever is out there, then they will probably follow in Blizzard's footsteps regarding that other bot for WoW-- Glider. It is a manipulation of the program code and the methods and functions of the how the game works.

Any modification or circumvention in that code is considered a violation of copyright laws put in place to protect that code. This is, of course, a gray area, especially when it comes to EULA and ToS. And, as seen in the screenshot above, yes, those are not laws and many times will not hold up in court. How Blizzard managed to do it was state that the bot was in violation of the DMCA:

"Blizzard contends that Glider violates the provision of the DMCA that prohibits "trafficking" in software that is "primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work" protected by copyright...

Blizzard argued, and Judge Campbell agreed, that when users violated the World of Warcraft EULA, they no longer had a license to play the game and were therefore guilty of copyright infringement."
Source: ArsTechnica

Blizzard ended up using the DMCA to make its case, and eventually won.

And, the only possible way to track anyone who purchased these bots is to follow the money trail, literally. If someone didn't pay cash and used something like a money order or cashier's check, they can be traceable if SE wants to go that far. You can't exactly hide $3000 paid out to someone unless you managed to do it "under the table" using cash only. Any one player who used a bank account or check or whatever can be tracked down. It's only a matter of time.

This method of tracking, of course, will incur more costs on SE's part if they want to prosecute and punish everyone out there. I don't think SE will go that far though. Then again, we had the mass Salvage bans from a year ago. A lot of the people who mentioned the dupe bug and exploited it haughtily laughed they won't get caught and looked at what happened to them.

SE has made no claim that RMT or Bots violate their copyrights. They are only enforcing the contractual terms of the EULA.

MDY (Glider) vs. Blizzard is under appeal. Their arguments (Page 7 http://mmoglider.com/legal/11_11_2009_Reply.pdf).

Blizzard cannot escape are these inevitable facts:

• It cannot point to any copying by Glider—and therefore cannot point to any copyright infringement under 17 U.S.C. § 117.

• The buyers of copies of the Warcraft software could take it home, load it, delete it, and destroy it, if they liked—all with impunity. They owned their individual copies, not the copyright in the software, and Blizzard has tried to confuse the issues by conflating ownership of a "copy" of the discs containing the Warcraft software with ownership of the "copyright."

• Because Blizzard initially provides its customers with complete and unfettered access to Warcraft, Blizzard‘s Warden program cannot "effectively" control access under the DMCA.

• The DMCA combats software piracy—something very far indeed from what this case is about. Because Glider does not circumvent Warden to infringe Blizzard‘s copyrighted materials, MDY does not meet the nexus requirement under the DMCA.

• MDY had a thriving business with tens of thousands of customers when Blizzard changed its contract with those same customers to try to make MDY into a tortious interferer—and did that after this litigation began. It‘s fairer to say that Blizzard tortious interfered with MDY customers than vice versa.

[Yabby]

SE wouldn't have to do that tho. If they can get a case against someone to the point of them (The maker of the cheat) losing a lot of money and going to jail its as easy as "Making a deal".

Let say SE somehow manages to sue/etc the maker for 50,000 and 5 years in jail (Don't blow up the numbers will vary lol). The bring him in and give him an offer. Give all the people you sold to, and we will cut that to no jail time and 5,000 dollar fine.

For those that say ffxiapp users were deleted, i'm sorry nothing is every fully deleted unless he took a massively strong magnet to his system. Shit i was fucking around and found old "Deleted" pics on my PC of 4 years ago. And if taj got a hold of it at one point that means it was on the web, and once its there its there forever. Someone has a copy, its on some hard-drive, etc.

[Aselin]

I've read that appeal before. I know SE haven't made any claims regarding that, but I said IF SE goes so far to punish the people behind this, they would most likely follow Blizzard's footsteps. Even then, it is a very gray area, and may not even succeed.

And, as Yabby said, even if he did delete the files or the database, they are still there and it can also be in the "money trails" since he charged them for the programs. Those are traceable, and like I said, unless you paid with cold, hard cash, anyone who used a money order, cashiers check, check, or credit/debit card, you can be tracked down. That's ONLY IF SE wants to go that far.

I highly doubt SE would take it that far to find every individual who purchased these programs.

[Bugpop]

SE wouldn't have to do that tho. If they can get a case against someone to the point of them (The maker of the cheat) losing a lot of money and going to jail its as easy as "Making a deal".

Let say SE somehow manages to sue/etc the maker for 50,000 and 5 years in jail (Don't blow up the numbers will vary lol). The bring him in and give him an offer. Give all the people you sold to, and we will cut that to no jail time and 5,000 dollar fine.

For those that say ffxiapp users were deleted, i'm sorry nothing is every fully deleted unless he took a massively strong magnet to his system. Shit i was fucking around and found old "Deleted" pics on my PC of 4 years ago. And if taj got a hold of it at one point that means it was on the web, and once its there its there forever. Someone has a copy, its on some hard-drive, etc.

I've read that appeal before. I know SE haven't made any claims regarding that, but I said IF SE goes so far to punish the people behind this, they would most likely follow Blizzard's footsteps. Even then, it is a very gray area, and may not even succeed.

And, as Yabby said, even if he did delete the files or the database, they are still there and it can also be in the "money trails" since he charged them for the programs. Those are traceable, and like I said, unless you paid with cold, hard cash, anyone who used a money order, cashiers check, check, or credit/debit card, you can be tracked down. That's ONLY IF SE wants to go that far.

I highly doubt SE would take it that far to find every individual who purchased these programs.

I thought it was interesting that SE now posesses the ffxiapp domain. It isn't hard to imagine that in a settlement that SE could have obtained the copyright to ffxiapp. In this case it would mean that SE could go after cracked FFXIAPP users for breach of contract and copyright infringement.

[Trigun]

Psalms 23:1-4
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

OR A NEW FAVORITE...

Alan Seeger (1888–1916)
I have a rendezvous with Death
At some disputed barricade,
When Spring comes back with rustling shade
And apple-blossoms fill the air—
I have a rendezvous with Death
When Spring brings back blue days and fair.

It may be he shall take my hand
And lead me into his dark land
And close my eyes and quench my breath—
It may be I shall pass him still.
I have a rendezvous with Death
On some scarred slope of battered hill,
When Spring comes round again this year
And the first meadow-flowers appear.

God knows 'twere better to be deep
Pillowed in silk and scented down,
Where love throbs out in blissful sleep,
Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,
Where hushed awakenings are dear...
But I've a rendezvous with Death
At midnight in some flaming town,
When Spring trips north again this year,
And I to my pledged word am true,
I shall not fail that rendezvous.

[stewie]

Psalms

lol.

[Silenka]

re: SE banning from Taj's list
SE cant do that because they dont know if the list is purely fabricated or an actual list.

Step 1: Look at list
Step 2: Monitor names of characters on list for suspicious/illegal activity or text
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Banhammur (profit)

[NynJa]

Step 1: Look at list
Step 2: Monitor names of characters on list for suspicious/illegal activity or text
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Banhammur (profit)

They could do that, as indications of who to redflag. But they cant just take the list and go "fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool". If they went down that route, they'd probably (knock on wood, considering the way the salvage ban-ee's got pwned) check them for a while, and thats it. But honestly, anyone whos fucking stupid enough to do anything that can get caught (fish afk, POS around, claim before shits spawned...etc etc) deserves to get LM-17ed. Sad but true.

[Trigun]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/kminus/Lb.gif

You already know.

[Yabby]

I thought it was interesting that SE now posesses the ffxiapp domain. It isn't hard to imagine that in a settlement that SE could have obtained the copyright to ffxiapp. In this case it would mean that SE could go after cracked FFXIAPP users for breach of contract and copyright infringement.

Do they really own that domain? or is it just a redirect that fuzz did for leeway with SE?


Nope just looked it up, domain is reg to

Mauricio Terneus
Orlando, Florida (I won't put the full address lol)
Administrative Contact:
Terneus, Mauricio [email protected]

[Aced]

Seems a few LM-11's have been given out on Quetz already, any other servers noticing any?

[Aksannyi]

Haha, holy crap ...

Merry Christmas, SE.

[BerenTebogo]

Didn't keep the ones they did ban in Jan from quitting FFXI no matter how much shit they talked..they crawled right back into it lol.

And after getting banned most of them re-accomplished more in FFXI than most of the QQers :D

I'm fine with getting banned. I did a relic from scratch on a lv1 new character in 9 months, I've beat FFXI up, down, and sideways. Bring on FFXIV.

That being said, we're not getting banned, Maury deleted the list and it was not turned over as evidence. Seems some of you have problems reading.

Edit to the LM-11 notice: No botter across any server, no matter what depth of botting that I know personally (over 700 people, easily) has been unable to log on today. The bans on Quetz were probably for other dumbass behavior, they still ban for shit that isn't botting.