Random Question Thread VI: I'm No Mathologist, But...

[JustaWAR]

Nope, I get an error in the windower console saying "Could not execute rdmmnd.txt - File was not found."

EDIT-
It seems like the error is only in rings/earrings. I've tried separating them, but nada.

[Aero]

Try /console exec rdm\\mnd.txt

[JustaWAR]

Try /console exec rdm\\mnd.txt

The same thing happens as rdm/mnd.txt

[Xno Kappa]

Iota Ring. Why?

[Kaeko]

It's true that there is very little data to make a strong case for Obis. My point, however, was that it's just as bad to make the assumption that it doesn't affect duration. As little data as there is to support the notion that magic ACC affects helix duration, I've yet to come across information to deny this potential. The link you provided only discussed AV and provided nothing towards the issue of duration other than someone asking you to take their word for it. Obviously, they're not unfamiliar with BG, so they're welcome to bring their information here. However, for now, the scale is tilted in favor of obis favoring duration, whether this be correct or incorrect.

Test procedure was to take a naked Mithra SCH and cast Helix spells on Myxomycete around Zi'tah OP. I checked the duration of the Helix by using windower TIMESTAMP and basically finding the difference in seconds between when the helix lands in the log and with when it wears. Note that I'm noting seconds, not # of ticks as the previous tester used. Also, the helix wears before the mob dies in all cases to note the true duration.

First set of tests was with Cryohelix, no staff, no obi, on non-ice/firesday. Duration varied between 45 and 90 seconds. After 100 trials, the distribution seems non-normal, but not skewed. Basically looks like a flat line. Key thing is the distribution is non-normal - it seems like any duration between 45 and 90 seconds is EQUALLY likely to occur.

Testing with hailstorm and obi does not change the minimum cutoffs. Meaning if you use Cryohelix on ice weather with or without obi, both 45 and 90 seconds are possible. So using Obi does not somehow prevent 45 second minimum durations from occurring. That I know for sure, and that was the 1 thing I needed to know when testing helices at the time since minimum duration was key to the MV trick.

What I cannot tell you is if using an Obi somehow changes the distribution to favor higher duration helices. I did not run enough trials to show this. What I can say is this:

(1) The duration of helices is 45 to 90 seconds
(2) Weather + Obi does not raise the 45 second minimum. It can still happen
(3) Elemental seal doesn't raise the minimum either, I've tested a 45 sec ES
(4) Duration and damage resist are separate. I've seen half resist 90 second helix as well as 45 second full damage helix.
(5) Under no circumstance does the helix duration fall below 45 seconds initially
(6) Under no weather/obi conditions, all durations are equally likely (harder to conclusively prove, but have a relatively good feel on this one)
(7) Unable to show if Obis raise the "average", but it won't raise the minimum.

So should you use Obi or Penitent's Rope for Helix? It's a tough call because really this doesn't necessarily disprove the theory that it will raise your average duration. I can only tell you it won't raise the maximum duration (90 seconds), and it won't raise the minimum duration (45 seconds).

Hope this helps.

EDIT:

Looking at the other thread, the testing is very flawed as mentioned earlier. (1) Half the time the mob dies first so the true duration is unknown, (2) he measured ticks and not duration, so his duration measurements are guesses and estimates, (3) trial size is woefully small.

Another EDIT, realized I kept saying iceday, I meant/changed it to hailstorm weather.

[Kaeko]

Oh forgot to say what I do personally.

I used Penitent's while I had a SCH. INT is so important for a low base damage spell like Helix that the damage increase from a simple +5 INT is much higher % increase in damage than on your typical 4 nuke. The benefit is proven and quite noticeable. I personally felt this was better than some hidden benefit that has never been shown to exist.

I never knew enough to conclusively say Obi was the wrong way to go, I just felt that it was not likely enough to make it worth sac'ing 5 INT. The later testing that showed minimums and maximums don't increase (which I tested while pursuing the MV trick) only added more evidence against this. Still, I won't go out on a limb and say no benefit exists. That would require some heavy trial'd tests.

[Yugl]

It's interesting how you immediately addressed a question of mine right as I thought about it (Whether the Obi increases the likeliness of higher duration within the 45-90 interval). I have a few questions though:

- Why was time instead of ticks tested? Is it because it's easier? Does it have to do with the internal mob ticks (I read about this briefly in the AV thread, but I did not have enough time to read it thoroughly and grasp the concept)?
- Should I interpret (6) as suggesting that it's possible for weather to raise to average duration?
- Given the variability in data and the duration resists on ES Helix, it should follow that Magic ACC has no bearing on the duration of helix. Is this correct?

[Shinryuu]

Iota Ring. Why?

Critical hitrate for when the ACC is still better than Blitz's 1% haste (or you can't wear Blitz) and the 1 or 2 extra ACC from Toreador isn't outdoing the critical hitrate gain.

In my case, Iota would put my polearm WAR at 118 DEX on birds, so a 2% critrate gain. Sold my Tor for a Hagun and saving up for a new one now so an Iota would be nice.

[Kaeko]

It's interesting how you immediately addressed a question of mine right as I thought about it (Whether the Obi increases the likeliness of higher duration within the 45-90 interval). I have a few questions though:

- Why was time instead of ticks tested? Is it because it's easier? Does it have to do with the internal mob ticks (I read about this briefly in the AV thread, but I did not have enough time to read it thoroughly and grasp the concept)?
- Should I interpret (6) as suggesting that it's possible for weather to raise to average duration?
- Given the variability in data and the duration resists on ES Helix, it should follow that Magic ACC has no bearing on the duration of helix. Is this correct?

It's much easier to check ticks instead of duration imo. The reason you have to check duration and not ticks has to do with when they occur. Ticks occur every 10 seconds at a specific time on the server's clock, for instance, every time the seconds digit is 1. If you land a helix at :X0 that first tick lands almost immediately after you land the helix, whereas if you land the helix at :X2, you need to wait almost 9 seconds to see 1 tick occur. Because of this, counting ticks has an error if about +/- seconds on the true duration.

I wouldn't necessarily say weather/obi would raise the average duration. I was just really careful not to exclude it. There is no real evidence to suggests that it exists other than the wording of the ability by SE.

MACC doesn't seem to affect it. If ES can result in a 45 second helix, and likewise a 1/8th resisted helix can still easily land 80+ seconds, I personally believe it's just a randomly chosen value between 45 and 90, where they all have equal chance.

[zagex]

I just regeared my rdm, and now all of my macros aren't working. I only changed the gear part of my macros, but still nothing. Anyone see any errors?

It's located at scripts\rdm\mnd.txt

input /equip back "Rainbow Cape";
input /equip waist "Penitent's Rope";
input /equip hands "Devotee's Mitts";
etc.

and the in-game macro is
/console exec rdm/mnd.txt

I'm not getting an error about not finding the file, so I guess it's in the syntax, but I can't find any errors ;;

I store my macros the way you do, and the only difference is I use:
/console exec "rdm/mnd.txt"
and it works just fine

[Byrthnoth]

So, Soboro/Yoichi. It's possible to 5-hit it but it isn't the easiest thing in the world and requires sacrificing at least 3% Haste (Dusk Gloves -> Hachiman Kotes +1) during TP.

For WS, in your ideal set:
5/5 STP merits, SAM has 35 STP + Rajas (->40) + 2 Hachiryu pieces (->45) + Rose Strap (->49)
TP return of 22.4, so you'd have to swing for 19.4, which means 69 STP during the TP phase.

Base + Merits + Rajas + Brutal + Rose + Usu feet + Usu body + Hachiman Kotes +1 + Ecphoria Ring/Augmented Attila's Earring (@69)


In a 6-hit build, you'd be using Dusk Gloves and Sword Strap instead of Hachiman Kotes +1 and Rose Strap, and you'd use an Acc ring and Hollow or Bushi or something instead of an augmented Attila's Earring. Also, your second earring wouldn't necessarily be Brutal.

I think a 5-hit would probably be worth it. If it was a 33/33/33 distribution, the benefit of a 5-hit over a 6-hit wouldn't be as large as it could be. However, with a 30/50/20 distribution the more probable DA -> DA case suddenly is 100TP. This distribution is skewed even more when you sub WAR and use Brutal Earring, but using the original 30/50/20:
1) Two double Attacks in a row: 25%
2) Double Attack + Triple Attack: 20%
3) Triple Attack + Single Attack: 12%
4) Triple Attack + Triple Attack: 4%
For a 6-hit, only the second and fourth cases would get you 100TP in two attack rounds (24% of the time). For a 5-hit, all four cases would get you 100TP in two attack rounds (61% of the time). /WAR and Brutal pushes this second total up to 64% of the time, while it pushes the odds with a 6-hit down to 22.5%. Cases 1 and 2 get TP in the third attack round.

To continue this: (again using 30/50/20 and order independence)
5) Single Attack + Single Attack: 9%
6) Single Attack + Double Attack: 30%

Cases 5 and 6 don't grant 100TP for a 5-hit or a 6-hit. However, let's look at the breakdown thereafter for the next attack round:
1*) Case 5 + Triple Attack: 1.8%
2*) Case 5 + Double Attack: 4.5%
3*) Case 5 + Single Attack: 2.7%
4*) Case 6 + Triple Attack: 6%
5*) Case 6 + Double Attack: 15%
6*) Case 6 + Single Attack: 9%
Cases 1*, 4*, and 5* result in 100TP for 6-hit and 5-hit. Cases 2* and 6* result in 100TP for a 5-hit but not a 6-hit. Case 3* results in sub-100TP for both builds.

1^) Case 3* + Single Attack: 0.81%
2^) Case 3* + Double or Triple Attack: 1.89%
Both builds get 100TP with situation 2^. 6-hit still needs one more hit after case 1^, but 5-hit gets 100TP with it. The unmentioned cases 2* and 6* from above both get 100TP on this round with a 6-hit.


So a 5-hit gets TP every 2.42 Attack rounds on average assuming no DA gear.
A 6-hit gets TP every 2.93 Attack rounds on average assuming no DA gear.

So you're looking at a 20% increase in WS frequency before factoring in the loss of 3-4% Haste (Fumas?), Sword Strap, and the Acc loss. If you have a Dancer, you're honestly probably looking at an even trade-off. Otherwise, the 5-hit probably wins.

[Spyre]

2 non gimp, not stupid blms enough to kill KB as the only dmg before rage in possible low man situation?

[NynJa]

Unless things have changed, KB rage is a joke.

[Yubar]

This question might be umm... strange, but I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how to detect a good ls from a bad ls. I don't exactly mean skill wise, but it wouldn't hurt.

I've been having trouble finding an honorable and reliable ls lately, and it's pissing me off. The last few salvage ls I have been in were disastrous to me due to blatant loot whores and very shady activities.

For example, today I had the pleasure of joining a salvage ls called Twentythree ran by Darkox here on Midgar and we did BR. Now, I told Darkox that my main lot was usu feet and he was ok with it. Now, the 35 usu drop and it was suppose to go to me, but then Darkox tells me I can't have it, because I wasn't part of the group and that I was brd and brd isn't important enough to the group. Instead, the feet go to his friend Salvatruko who doesn't even have usu feet as his main or sub. Now like any reasonable person I said fuck it and not dealing with this bullshit any more.

Now I'm completely salvageless again, and I'm not sure how to prevent this from happening again.

tl;dr I need advice from the veteran players on this site on how to prevent this from happening to me and to be able to detect a shady and bad ls.

[Spyre]

was thinking in the event of 3 people claiming, cant really remember the one time i saw it rage how bad it was

[Viq]

Make friends. Run your own salvage with friends.

[Yugl]

When you join an LS, call the ICE on the grounds of suspect of terrorism. If they clear the FBI screening, it's quite possible they're a good LS. If not, then you know to back away and don't get involved.

[drwaffles]

2 non gimp, not stupid blms enough to kill KB as the only dmg before rage in possible low man situation?

Even if there was theoretically enough damage there, Thunderbolt would most likely fuck you eventually.

[Yubar]

Make friends. Run your own salvage with friends.

That is a very sound response, and I would actually agree with you. The current situation I'm in doesn't allow me to do such that though. So, while I appreciate the thought. I need other options and ways to help me with this, because believe me I would make my own.

So, if I could really get some advice on how to detect a bad ls with shady people and greedy loot whores. I would really appreciate it.

[FailureMidgard]

That is a very sound response, and I would actually agree with you. The current situation I'm in doesn't allow me to do such that though. So, while I appreciate the thought. I need other options and ways to help me with this, because believe me I would make my own.

So, if I could really get some advice on how to detect a bad ls with shady people and greedy loot whores. I would really appreciate it.

Honestly, Viq gave you the only proper response. Don't join a shell if it isn't through word of mouth or BG recruitment imo. /shout shells and the like are either going to be awful, or exactly what you had. /shrug In the end, if you go on 1 run and get screwed, you didn't really lose out on much more than 1-2 hrs of your life.