Random Question Thread VI: I'm No Mathologist, But...

[Shinryuu]

However, you might be overrating hitrate on SAM. Are you keeping in mind that (assuming SAM is within 30-35 ACC of capping ACC for simplicity) accuracy for a SAM/whatever gets only 57.25% the effectiveness damage-wise compared to anything not SAM or /SAM? Zanshin is one of the many reason why polearm SAM works so well. Pizza+1 is another (hey, we're talking Salvage too).

The very short term solution is using Shinimusha and full ACC on neck and rings I'd say.

And yeah, SAM gets by far the most damage from merits. WAR gets like 5%ish from DA and a whole lot less from Berserk and basically nothing from group 2.

Also, huh? Was that directed at me or are you criticising the hades guy? A MNK will eventually grab hate off me on a boss, sure, but I'm still going to start with hate on it due to the weaponskills.

[Alvinho]

If we consider Shadow Mantle a 10% proc rate and thus essentially -10% PDT, Umbra is superior at night (12%) and also superior during the day if you have more than 34% PDT before the back slot since Shadow Mantle's PDT is separate from any normal damage reduction and thus doesn't benefit from other PDT gear working with it. On the other hand, Shadow Mantle simply annuls the damage so it's nice for things like casting Ichi (shouldn't get hit but it will happen from time to time). inb4 pchan's SID set.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=111412

That's what I have/use. Only way I can get over 34% without a back piece is during campaign (Patronus + Genbu's Shield), or basically anywhere else with Terra's, though I can't reach cap without the cape. =/

Thanks for all the input everyone.

[Fottiti]

yea, i know boss fights. A sam fulltiming seigan and mixing in and out pdt gear is not going to keep hate off of, yet alone deal more damage than a mnk, ect. If you have both sammie can go full dd on gears ect, and leave the chariots to the mnks.

How are these comments still coming after Kaeko finished explaining, indepth and over 15 months ago how enmity works.

Any DD thats got the remotest clue will cap their CE and be hitting VE cap within a few minutes (might take up to 5mins in extreme cases) of engaging a chariot. A full usu monk vs an equally geared mix/match sam will have hate a larger % of the time due to the fact they are attacking more frequently (thus recapping CE and VE at more frequent intervals). That doesn't necessarily mean the monk is doing more damage.

[pchan]

Furthermore Sams get provoke

Seriously, after 1 minute VE is capped for one, and secondly the enmity generated by provoke is ridiculous compared to the damage/per minute you are dealing. A good DD does nothing less than 4,000 damage per minutes which is 18,000 VE or 9,000 VE per 30 seconds. A sam using provoke on a chariot is a retard. Remember ? Provoke is only good in valkurm dunes, check shinryu's sig.

[cdgreg]

What do Nanatsusaya's sell for on various servers? Also, yes, I checked ffxiah.com bazaar prices but there's none wanted, only some priced at 50-70m.

[TheTaru]

What do Nanatsusaya's sell for on various servers? ... 50-70m.

Looks to me that every LS that has been known to do PW a decent amount has their price on FFXIAH, what are you expecting to be told? Not trying to antagonize.

[cdgreg]

Looks to me that every LS that has been known to do PW a decent amount has their price on FFXIAH, what are you expecting to be told? Not trying to antagonize.

What they actually sell for, not the high bazaar price posted to keep an item artificially valued. Looking at KC's on Odin I see the two posted for 50-60m but know from turning over 4-6 of them that you're not actually going to get that price 99% of the time. Looking at speed belts on Odin I see one listed at 42m yet I've seen 3 different belts in Jueno for 37-39m and personally sold the last one I turned over for 36m which was the best offer after weeks of bazaaring.

In short, I can pick up a Nanatsusaya for a price much better than 50-70m, but if they're not realistically selling at those prices I'm not going to buy it to turn over for a profit and have it rot/lose gil.

[Midnightjade]

I feel silly for even asking this, but I just want to be sure. Will I still get any mileage from an Umbra Cape (75 onry) if I have a Shadow Mantle?

None whatsoever, plus it makes tarus look fat.

You should mail it to me asap and I'll dispose of it for you.

(Btw, nice PDT set!)

[zeal5050]

Ninja Tool expertise; Regarding gear that enhances this trait (namely Koga Tekko) Do you have to keep them on precast or mid-cast to gain the effect?

Also, on a related note: How does Recycle work? Can I equip Scout's Beret (AF2) when I start shooting, then swap to other gear like Optical Hat?

[FailureMidgard]

However, you might be overrating hitrate on SAM. Are you keeping in mind that (assuming SAM is within 30-35 ACC of capping ACC for simplicity) accuracy for a SAM/whatever gets only 57.25% the effectiveness damage-wise compared to anything not SAM or /SAM? Zanshin is one of the many reason why polearm SAM works so well. Pizza+1 is another (hey, we're talking Salvage too).

The very short term solution is using Shinimusha and full ACC on neck and rings I'd say.

And yeah, SAM gets by far the most damage from merits. WAR gets like 5%ish from DA and a whole lot less from Berserk and basically nothing from group 2.

Also, huh? Was that directed at me or are you criticising the hades guy? A MNK will eventually grab hate off me on a boss, sure, but I'm still going to start with hate on it due to the weaponskills.

Eh, I don't think I'm overrating it much. At very low gear levels, you can use sushi...graduate into Pizza, eventually meat at some events. And I think you are vastly overrating Zanshin.
I think we agree on this more than you're saying, I just don't feel a sam without a 6/5 (gk/pole) hit and 3/5 overwhelm is even worth bringing. Tell them to skip salvage and go merit until they get it done.

Seriously, after 1 minute VE is capped for one, and secondly the enmity generated by provoke is ridiculous compared to the damage/per minute you are dealing. A good DD does nothing less than 4,000 damage per minutes which is 18,000 VE or 9,000 VE per 30 seconds. A sam using provoke on a chariot is a retard. Remember ? Provoke is only good in valkurm dunes, check shinryu's sig.

Maybe I should have clarified, provoke for the up to 60-90 minutes you spend not on the chariot. It's nice to not have to rely on hitting something for hate. Mages can curebomb as you pull if they want and someone is low, puller takes less hits, there's 0 risk of bad luck with missed attacks, etc. Provoke is also still "useful" to open up with on the chariot (or after a BJ in SSR), you can't really deny this, but no, I don't spam voke on chariots, as it does nothing once you cap VE.

[Zellgadiss]

Ninja Tool expertise; Regarding gear that enhances this trait (namely Koga Tekko) Do you have to keep them on precast or mid-cast to gain the effect?

Also, on a related note: How does Recycle work? Can I equip Scout's Beret (AF2) when I start shooting, then swap to other gear like Optical Hat?

At time of shot(and thus I'd assume tool usage), so no.

[Khajit]

What they actually sell for, not the high bazaar price posted to keep an item artificially valued. Looking at KC's on Odin I see the two posted for 50-60m but know from turning over 4-6 of them that you're not actually going to get that price 99% of the time. Looking at speed belts on Odin I see one listed at 42m yet I've seen 3 different belts in Jueno for 37-39m and personally sold the last one I turned over for 36m which was the best offer after weeks of bazaaring.

In short, I can pick up a Nanatsusaya for a price much better than 50-70m, but if they're not realistically selling at those prices I'm not going to buy it to turn over for a profit and have it rot/lose gil.

I think there's one in bazaar in quetz for 40 mil but i cant confirm atm due to computer troubles.

[Shinryuu]

Eh, I don't think I'm overrating it much. At very low gear levels, you can use sushi...graduate into Pizza, eventually meat at some events. And I think you are vastly overrating Zanshin.
I think we agree on this more than you're saying, I just don't feel a sam without a 6/5 (gk/pole) hit and 3/5 overwhelm is even worth bringing. Tell them to skip salvage and go merit until they get it done.

Maybe I should have clarified, provoke for the up to 60-90 minutes you spend not on the chariot. It's nice to not have to rely on hitting something for hate. Mages can curebomb as you pull if they want and someone is low, puller takes less hits, there's 0 risk of bad luck with missed attacks, etc. Provoke is also still "useful" to open up with on the chariot (or after a BJ in SSR), you can't really deny this, but no, I don't spam voke on chariots, as it does nothing once you cap VE.

Oh but we are agreeing a lot about the guy here, just some minor points. I'm not overrating Zanshin nor am I underrating it. It's simple math we can finally do because we finally have Zanshin test data. Zanshin procs 45%, and adds between 30 and 35 ACC. The one thing we're not sure of is if DA procs before Zanshin or not. Given no DA (flawed assumption, SAM's having at least 17% with a polearm) it's 45% times 95% (if the extra Zanshin ACC caps your hitrate, which it should). The returns on hitrate are calculated easily: (new hitrate-old hitrate)/old hitrate*100%. This number gets a 35% or so cut if you add in DA. Therefore, if say Cuchulain's adds 5% damage in a pre-Zanshin model, and Forager's adds 4%, post-Zanshin Forager's will win. Just a hypothetical, Cuchulain's still the best meat backpiece.

[Hosom]

Coding an application in which I am doing HP calculations, looking for the Sch, Blu, Cor, Pup, and Dnc HP/MP and stat rankings, but I can't find them anywhere.

I got the rest of them here: at this random stat calc. Anyone happen to know where I can find the ones it is missing?

[Counterfeit]

Trading my kraken club for a speed belt, good or bad?

[Aero]

Trading my kraken club for a speed belt, good or bad?

KC = Speed belt + 10m~

[Chen]

KC = Speed belt + 10m~

^

[zeal5050]

At time of shot(and thus I'd assume tool usage), so no.

So if I macro in a Gosha Sarashi (Enhances Ninja Tool expertise) miscast It would do nothing?

example: [Precast]=Swift Belt > [Midcast]=Gosha Sarashi

[Aero]

Swift belt in precast would also do nothing.

[FailureMidgard]

Oh but we are agreeing a lot about the guy here, just some minor points. I'm not overrating Zanshin nor am I underrating it. It's simple math we can finally do because we finally have Zanshin test data. Zanshin procs 45%, and adds between 30 and 35 ACC. The one thing we're not sure of is if DA procs before Zanshin or not. Given no DA (flawed assumption, SAM's having at least 17% with a polearm) it's 45% times 95% (if the extra Zanshin ACC caps your hitrate, which it should). The returns on hitrate are calculated easily: (new hitrate-old hitrate)/old hitrate*100%. This number gets a 35% or so cut if you add in DA. Therefore, if say Cuchulain's adds 5% damage in a pre-Zanshin model, and Forager's adds 4%, post-Zanshin Forager's will win. Just a hypothetical, Cuchulain's still the best meat backpiece.

Zanshin is closing half the gap, roughly, in a best-case scenario for it (43% of of your misses become hits), so parsing at 75% accuracy, you'll end up at 83.5 or so after Zanshin. Yea, it's something, but in no way does it "make Polearm Sam work so well", and really, I think even with a crab sushi, someone at his gear level will be around 75% accuracy.

I agree it comes into play in the calculation, but I still don't see a sam with pole + 3rd eye merits beating a GK sam with Overwhelm3/5 and a 6hit.