Random Question Thread VI: I'm No Mathologist, But...

[Yubar]

Depends on the rest of your gear, merits, food choice, and buffs. Ideally however, the one that has no accuracy on it.

Always thought that Acc was the most important stat when it came multi hit WS like for Asuran Fists?

[FailureMidgard]

Always thought that Acc was the most important stat when it came multi hit WS like for Asuran Fists?

It is - to the point that you cap accuracy. It's very possible and likely that you can hit ~410-420 accuracy in your WS gear without even trying though. I won't deny that it's useful to have a higher accuracy setup for when needed as well, but you should be able to cap accuracy without that belt most the time.

[Deader2818]

Ok so.

My combat merits were 8/8 Archery 8/8 Marksmenship and 4/8 H2H

I hardly play ranger anymore so im taking out Archery merits to go 8/8 H2H

Im unsure what to spend my other 4 merits on. I was thinking either GKT, Dagger, or Katana but im not sure which job gets a bigger benefit from it.

I just got NIN to 75 so not sure what i'll really be using it on and I use THF for mostly Salvage but also misc other things that im usually just there for TH4.

[Yugl]

Ok so.

My combat merits were 8/8 Archery 8/8 Marksmenship and 4/8 H2H

I hardly play ranger anymore so im taking out Archery merits to go 8/8 H2H

Im unsure what to spend my other 4 merits on. I was thinking either GKT, Dagger, or Katana but im not sure which job gets a bigger benefit from it.

I just got NIN to 75 so not sure what i'll really be using it on and I use THF for mostly Salvage but also misc other things that im usually just there for TH4.

Is GKT for SAM or NIN? If for SAM, then go with Polearm merits.

[Deader2818]

Is GKT for SAM or NIN? If for SAM, then go with Polearm merits.

Sorry, yeah its for SAM.

I was thinking of polearm but I don't merit often and when I do, im almost always COR or RDM.

Tbh, im not sure how often SAM uses Polearm outside of Merits so I was kind of leaning away from that.

[stewie]

How does weather affect magic accuracy?

[Thorny]

How does weather affect magic accuracy?

This much |-------------|

[Yugl]

Sorry, yeah its for SAM.

I was thinking of polearm but I don't merit often and when I do, im almost always COR or RDM.

Tbh, im not sure how often SAM uses Polearm outside of Merits so I was kind of leaning away from that.

Outside of merits it's a Einherjar/Limbus fad as well. Then again, compare it to your other options:

THF? No need really.
NIN? Maybe, if you cannot solo on anything else and plan on killing high level mobs?
SAM GKT? WS is most of your DMG if I remember correctly, and those are generally capped in terms of ATT and ACC. You could always merit it for ridiculous HNMs though.

[FailureMidgard]

Outside of merits it's a Einherjar/Limbus fad as well. Then again, compare it to your other options:

THF? No need really.
NIN? Maybe, if you cannot solo on anything else and plan on killing high level mobs?
SAM GKT? WS is most of your DMG if I remember correctly, and those are generally capped in terms of ATT and ACC. You could always merit it for ridiculous HNMs though.

It's only going to win out in Ein if you're fighting flying mobs, or your shell does bard rotations on the trash mobs (clarification since apparently a lot of FFXI people apparently don't get what "trash mobs" means, it means non-Boss), and you likely need sushi or pizza.
In limbus it's really hit or miss, depends on the zone, if you have another melee what job they are, etc.

Don't get me wrong, polearm is great, but I think some people here are overstating it's usefulness outside of piercing vulnerable mobs. Yea, it scales with attack buffs better than GK, but if you have that many attack buffs in Limbus, I really think you're doing something wrong...

[Cream Soda]

I pretty much use pizza+1 w/ polearm at limbus and Einherjar, saving gkt for only stuff that has piercing bonus. I consistently do better w/ polearm (though 8 polearm merits, 4 gkt if that means anything). WS average always higher w/ penta than y/g, able to cap acc in most cases, so that's not a concern, and better DoT as well.

[Argettio]

That would mean that there is no enmity generated when you are less than 25' away. Silly.

oops.

just to answer the question though:

http://kanican.livejournal.com/14633.html

Spoiler: show

Test 18A

What is the minimum distance a player can perform an action and not receive enmity gain?

- 1 puller character with Silence (BRD/WHM)
- 1 WHM with access to Cure V (WHM/WAR)
- Both need to have access to "distance plug-in"
- Use a "level 0" monster - we chose Bumblebee in West Sarutabaruta

- Puller pulls with Silence and stands still
- The WHM casts Cure 1 for 0 HP on the puller to get on the hate list.
- Have the WHM go to a distance of about 35' and cast Cure V on himself.
- Move in closer and closer, repeating cures until the WHM is finally able to take hate.
- Document the closest distance at which the WHM could Cure V without taking hate.


Maximum Distance that still got Hate = 24.9
Minimum Distance that did not get Hate = 25.0

Based on this test, we can say that any action you perform on yourself at a distance of 25' or greater from the mob gives no Enmity. I call this distance of 25' the "Fringe Distance" - if you are outside this distance from the mob, nothing you do can give you more Enmity. Note that it is possible to still get hate outside this distance - if the player with hate is shedding CE or VE and you then overtake hate, the mob will go after you, even if you are outside the 25' distance. I think that is pretty intuitive.

This really just pertained to actions you can perform on yourself. Performing an action on the mob from greater than 25' would most certainly still give you Enmity - I don't know if you can actually perform an action on a mob at this distance - maybe a ranged attack? Either way, this test only shows how things work on actions you perform on yourself. The next test goes into details about performing actions on an ally.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Test 18B

Is the "Fringe Distance" dependent on the player performing the action or the player the action is targetting?


- 1 puller character with Silence (BRD/WHM)
- 1 WHM with access to Cure V (WHM/WAR)
- 1 character with access to Cure 1 (BLM/RDM)
- Non-pullers need to have access to "distance plug-in"
- Use a "level 0" monster - we chose Bumblebee in West Sarutabaruta

- Puller pulls with Silence and stands still
- The non-WHM casts Cure 1 for 0 HP on the puller to get on the hate list.
- Have the non-WHM go to a distance of exactly 24.9' from the mob
- Have the WHM stand at the maximum casting range relative to the other player
- The WHM should be roughly 21' from the player and about 46' from the mob

- Have the WHM now cast Cure V on the player 24.9' away from the mob
- Document if the mob runs for the WHM or stays on the puller.


Result = The mob will run after the WHM in this scenario

This test shows that it doesn't matter where exactly the caster is from the mob - only where the target of the action is relative to the mob. If you really think about this in practice, this makes a lot of sense. If the caster's distance is what mattered, you could really abuse this situation in certain endgame fights. In many cases like self curing, the target of the action is also the caster, but it is still important to differentiate and pin-point exactly what is going on.

I think this test is most important to BSTs and soloing SMNs, as this distance is incredibly important in making sure the pet does not lose hate to the mob. Even so, I was quite surprised at how close this distance is from the mob itself. I had heard many theories on where this distance was and 30' and 50' were the most common things I had heard. 25' is actually just outside the range of some mobs. I know from soloing experience that Behemoths can be cast on anywhere 23.8' and under, so the "Fringe Distance" is really only 1.2' out from the maximum casting distance.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Test 18C

This test only serves as further verifcation for Test 18B...

Repeat Test 18B, but this time, have the target of the cure stand 25.0' from the mob, while the caster of the cure at about 6.0' from the mob (but still in range to cure the target). You'll find that the caster will not get any Enmity in this case. Now move the target to 24.9' instead of 25.0' and repeat - the curer will now take hate.

This shows that, indeed, the target of the action is all that matters when calculating the fringe distance. The caster himself can be really close to the mob, but still get no enmity as long as the target is 25'0 or greater away from the mob!


Conclusions

If an action is performed on a player at a distance 25.0' or greater from the mob, no Enmity is gained.

[Hegarty]

It's only going to win out in Ein if you're fighting flying mobs, or your shell does bard rotations on the trash mobs (clarification since apparently a lot of FFXI people apparently don't get what "trash mobs" means, it means non-Boss), and you likely need sushi or pizza.
In limbus it's really hit or miss, depends on the zone, if you have another melee what job they are, etc.

Don't get me wrong, polearm is great, but I think some people here are overstating it's usefulness outside of piercing vulnerable mobs. Yea, it scales with attack buffs better than GK, but if you have that many attack buffs in Limbus, I really think you're doing something wrong...

You need to stop this anti-polearm crap, I have seen Polearm out parse many SAMs including an Amano (noob but not the point here) in Einherjar many times and I'm not even talking about Flying mobs here, I mean even Elementals and shit. Polearm with capped Acc is higher DPS than GKT.
For Limbus it is more situational.

[Tsuko_Asura]

You need to stop this anti-polearm crap, I have seen Polearm out parse many SAMs including an Amano (noob but not the point here) in Einherjar many times and I'm not even talking about Flying mobs here, I mean even Elementals and shit. Polearm with capped Acc is higher DPS than GKT.
For Limbus it is more situational.

Hi, you must be new here.

[mdkuser]

Polearm with capped Acc is higher DPS than GKT.

No. Even at birds camp it's not obvious. With sushi and no minuets, your non-DA'd penta will be ~800 ish while a a non DA'd gekko will be ~1k ( from memory). compare it to a thief doing solo dancing edges/evisc for ~1300 pre minuets. This means polearm barely beats GK, especially if you use a partial 5 hit.

240 skill is bad, so is 256 ( compared to 304). When you equip a polearm you automatically have -50~60 attack -50~60 accuracy... Having to eat sushi is bad... It also requires specific gear; not having true 5 hit or not caping accuracy is also bad, by the way.

One should only use polearm when levelling up to 75, at the birds meripo, and situationnally on random piercing weak mobs. Polearm sucks in general unless the things you fight are weak or you have a lot of buffs; I remember owning bats in einherjar with 6 bard buffs, thats it; you cannot have a decent output on non piercing weak mobs due to the -acc& att. If you did, the melees you were comparing yourself to weren't good. Always compare yourself to yourself.

[Raen Ryong]

I think you've overestimating WS damage a lil. Gekko caps out around 900~ non-DA on birdies, Penta no idea. Also if you get 1300 soloDE/Evis on average without Minuets, I want your WS setup!

[mdkuser]

I think you've overestimating WS damage a lil. Gekko caps out around 900~ non-DA on birdies, Penta no idea. Also if you get 1300 soloDE/Evis on average without Minuets, I want your WS setup!

I might be overestimating as I havent merited in long time. Only merited on THF once at this camp and that was impressive compared to polearm. tripple attack SA EVIsc for 2300...

[Raen Ryong]

I'd be impressed with a ~1k solo average honestly stacking does push it much higher for obvious reasons though. And yah, meritting on THF is damn fun. I haven't for ages either so my numbers are unlikely to be accurate too, but I seem to remember ~800-850 solo average (my WS gear was a bit mediocre at the time however).

[Severance]

Spellcast noob here. Below is my spellcast file for SAM, and I would appreciate some help with adding some new functions.

Spoiler: show

<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<spellcast xmlnsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">
<config
RequireVersion="2.30"
Debug="False"
ShowGearSwaps="False"
ShowSpellInfo="False"
/>
<sets>
<group Name="SAM" Default="Yes">
<set Name="Idle">
<ammo>Smart Grenade</ammo>
<head>Askar Zucchetto</head>
<neck>Orochi Nodowa</neck>
<lear>Ethereal Earring</lear>
<rear>Brutal Earring</rear>
<body>Usukane Haramaki</body>
<hands>Usukane Gote</hands>
<lring>Rajas Ring</lring>
<rring>Toreador's Ring</rring>
<back>Cuchulain's Mantle</back>
<waist>Swift Belt</waist>
<legs>Byakko's Haidate</legs>
<feet>Usukane Sune-ate</feet>
</set>
<set name="Engaged" baseset="Idle">
<head>Walahra Turban</head>
<neck>Chivalrous Chain</neck>
<hands>Dusk Gloves</hands>
</set>
<set name="Salvage" baseset="Engaged">
<rring Lock="True">Ulthalam's Ring</rring>
</set>
<set name="Meditate">
<head>Myochin Kabuto</head>
</set>
<set name="Yukikaze" baseset="Engaged">
<head>Askar Zucchetto</head>
<neck>Snow Gorget</neck>
<lear>Merman's Earring</lear>
<hands>Alkyoneus's Bracelets</hands>
<rring>Triumph Ring</rring>
<back>Forager's Mantle</back>
<waist>Warwolf Belt</waist>
<legs>Shura Haidate</legs>
<feet>Creek M Clomps</feet>
</set>
<set name="Gekko" baseset="Engaged">
<head>Askar Zucchetto</head>
<neck>Snow Gorget</neck>
<lear>Merman's Earring</lear>
<hands>Alkyoneus's Bracelets</hands>
<rring>Triumph Ring</rring>
<back>Forager's Mantle</back>
<waist>Warwolf Belt</waist>
<legs>Shura Haidate</legs>
<feet>Creek M Clomps</feet>
</set>
<set name="Kasha" baseset="Engaged">
<head>Askar Zucchetto</head>
<neck>Flame Gorget</neck>
<lear>Merman's Earring</lear>
<hands>Alkyoneus's Bracelets</hands>
<rring>Triumph Ring</rring>
<back>Forager's Mantle</back>
<waist>Warwolf Belt</waist>
<legs>Shura Haidate</legs>
<feet>Creek M Clomps</feet>
</set>
<set name="Rana" baseset="Engaged">
<head>Hissho Hachimaki</head>
<neck>Snow Gorget</neck>
<lear>Merman's Earring</lear>
<hands>Usukane Gote</hands>
<rring>Triumph Ring</rring>
<back>Forager's Mantle</back>
<waist>Virtuoso Belt</waist>
<legs>Shura Haidate</legs>
</set>
<set name="Haste" baseset="Engaged" />
</group>
</sets>
<rules>
<equip When="Idle" Set="Idle" />
<equip When="Engaged" Set="Engaged" />
<if Status="Engaged">
<equip When="AfterCast" Set="Engaged" />
</if>
<else>
<equip When="AfterCast" Set="Idle" />
</else>
<if Spell="Tachi: Yukikaze">
<equip When="PreCast" Set="Yukikaze" />
</if>
<elseif Spell="Tachi: Gekko">
<equip When="PreCast" Set="Gekko" />
</elseif>
<elseif Spell="Tachi: Kasha">
<equip When="PreCast" Set="Kasha" />
</elseif>
<elseif Spell="Tachi: Rana">
<equip When="PreCast" Set="Rana" />
</elseif>
<elseif Spell="Utsusemi*">
<equip When="MidCast" Set="Haste" />
</elseif>
<if spell="Meditate">
<equip when="precast" set="Meditate" />
<aftercastdelay delay=".2" />
</if>
<if spell="Warding Circle">
<equip when="precast" set="Meditate" />
<aftercastdelay delay=".2" />
</if>
</rules>
</spellcast>

1. I need it to TP in Ethereal Earring when I have Gondo-Shizunori/Tomoe/Love Halberd equipped. (While the standard TP gear atm is Ethereal, that will be changing to Bushinomimi on fullmoon. This is more of a pre-emptive add.)

2. Regardless of weapon, if SJ is DRG I need it to TP in Wyvern Earring.

3. When in Salvage / Assault, I need TP Ring2 to be Ulthalam's Ring.

I think that's everything. Whoever helps gets hugs and kisses.

[Argettio]

From what I have seen of a Pole SAM and the maths I have done based on average (non-Usukane) gear you should be aiming/expecting for 1000+ average with penta.

That's using Sushi, Chaos roll, Double march, Hasso (for WS), Dia, and Berserk being up 3/5 of the time.

So on birds a Pole SAM should be WS for similar values to a GKT SAM, and the Pole SAM should be WS more often (5 vs 6 hit).

I have never merited with a genuinely good THF so can't comment on their capabilities on birds.

inb4 Pachipachio 5hit.

[Argettio]

Spellcast noob here. Below is my spellcast file for SAM, and I would appreciate some help with adding some new functions.

1. I need it to TP in Ethereal Earring when I have Gondo-Shizunori/Tomoe/Love Halberd equipped. (While the standard TP gear atm is Ethereal, that will be changing to Bushinomimi on fullmoon. This is more of a pre-emptive add.)

2. Regardless of weapon, if SJ is DRG I need it to TP in Wyvern Earring.

3. When in Salvage / Assault, I need TP Ring2 to be Ulthalam's Ring.

I think that's everything. Whoever helps gets hugs and kisses.

Spoiler: show

<spellcast xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">
    <config
        RequireVersion="2.30"
        Debug="False"
        ShowGearSwaps="False"
        ShowSpellInfo="False"
        />
    <sets>
        <group Name="SAM" Default="Yes">
            <set Name="Idle">
                <ammo>Smart Grenade</ammo>
                <head>Askar Zucchetto</head>
                <neck>Orochi Nodowa</neck>
                <lear>Ethereal Earring</lear>
                <rear>Brutal Earring</rear>
                <body>Usukane Haramaki</body>
                <hands>Usukane Gote</hands>
                <lring>Rajas Ring</lring>
                <rring>Toreador's Ring</rring>
                <back>Cuchulain's Mantle</back>
                <waist>Swift Belt</waist>
                <legs>Byakko's Haidate</legs>
                <feet>Usukane Sune-ate</feet>
            </set>
            <set name="Engaged" baseset="Idle">
                <head>Walahra Turban</head>
                <neck>Chivalrous Chain</neck>
                <hands>Dusk Gloves</hands>
            </set>

            <set name="Meditate">
                <head>Myochin Kabuto</head>
            </set>
            <set name="Yukikaze" baseset="Engaged">
                <head>Askar Zucchetto</head>
                <neck>Snow Gorget</neck>
                <lear>Merman's Earring</lear>
                <hands>Alkyoneus's Bracelets</hands>
                <rring>Triumph Ring</rring>
                <back>Forager's Mantle</back>
                <waist>Warwolf Belt</waist>
                <legs>Shura Haidate</legs>
                <feet>Creek M Clomps</feet>
            </set>
            <set name="Gekko" baseset="Engaged">
                <head>Askar Zucchetto</head>
                <neck>Snow Gorget</neck>
                <lear>Merman's Earring</lear>
                <hands>Alkyoneus's Bracelets</hands>
                <rring>Triumph Ring</rring>
                <back>Forager's Mantle</back>
                <waist>Warwolf Belt</waist>
                <legs>Shura Haidate</legs>
                <feet>Creek M Clomps</feet>
            </set>
            <set name="Kasha" baseset="Engaged">
                <head>Askar Zucchetto</head>
                <neck>Flame Gorget</neck>
                <lear>Merman's Earring</lear>
                <hands>Alkyoneus's Bracelets</hands>
                <rring>Triumph Ring</rring>
                <back>Forager's Mantle</back>
                <waist>Warwolf Belt</waist>
                <legs>Shura Haidate</legs>
                <feet>Creek M Clomps</feet>
            </set>
            <set name="Rana" baseset="Engaged">
                <head>Hissho Hachimaki</head>
                <neck>Snow Gorget</neck>
                <lear>Merman's Earring</lear>
                <hands>Usukane Gote</hands>
                <rring>Triumph Ring</rring>
                <back>Forager's Mantle</back>
                <waist>Virtuoso Belt</waist>
                <legs>Shura Haidate</legs>
            </set>
            <set name="Haste" baseset="Engaged" />
        </group>
    </sets>
    <rules>
        <if Area="*Leujaoam Sanctum*|*Mamool Ja Training Grounds*|*Lebros Cavern*|*Periqia*|*Ilrusi Atoll*|*Nyzul Isle*|*Remnants*">
            <action type="equip" when="precast|midcast|aftercast|resting|idle|engaged">
                <rring lock="yes">Ulthalam's Ring</rring>
            </action>
        </if>
        
        <if NotSubJob="DRG" EquipMain="Gondo-Shizunori|Tomoe|Love Halberd">
            <equip When="Aftercast|Engaged|Idle|Resting">
                <rear lock="t">Ethereal Earring</rear>
            </equip>
        </if>
        <elseif SubJob="DRG">
            <equip When="Aftercast|Engaged|Idle|Resting">
                <rear lock="t">Wyvern Earring</rear>
            </equip>
        </elseif>
        
        
        <equip When="Idle" Set="Idle" />
        <equip When="Engaged" Set="Engaged" />
        <if Status="Engaged">
            <equip When="AfterCast" Set="Engaged" />
        </if>
        <else>
            <equip When="AfterCast" Set="Idle" />
        </else>
    
        <if Spell="Tachi: Yukikaze">
            <equip When="PreCast" Set="Yukikaze" />
        </if>
        <elseif Spell="Tachi: Gekko">
            <equip When="PreCast" Set="Gekko" />
        </elseif>
        <elseif Spell="Tachi: Kasha">
            <equip When="PreCast" Set="Kasha" />
        </elseif>
        <elseif Spell="Tachi: Rana">
            <equip When="PreCast" Set="Rana" />
        </elseif>
            <elseif Spell="Utsusemi*">
                <if SubJob="DRG">
                    <equip When="Precast">
                        <rear lock="t">Wyvern Earring</rear>
                    </equip>
                </if>
                <equip When="MidCast" Set="Haste" />
            </elseif>
            <if spell="Meditate">
                <equip when="precast" set="Meditate" />
                <aftercastdelay delay=".2" />
            </if>
        <if spell="Warding Circle">
            <equip when="precast" set="Meditate" />
            <aftercastdelay delay=".2" />
        </if>
    </rules>
</spellcast> 

Done

Just change the earring in you engaged set to bushi once you get it.