Einherjar: To /NIN or to /DMG, that is the question

[Vedder]

To me this debate comes down to the odds. There are more mobs in Einherjar with TP moves that flat out wipe shadows, thus nullifying Utsusemi's effectiveness, than mobs with TP moves that Utsusemi will protect you from (Body Slam, Fluid Spread, etc.)

And let's be honest, it only comes down to TP moves... because if your melee have to rely on shadows to blink away regular attacks from Einherjar mobs, then they just need to gtfo. Third Eye is your friend there, bros.

So WARs and DRKs sub /SAM ... and /SAMs sub /WAR or /DRG and take your chances.

Leave /NIN to the THF (lolFeint?), PLD (though /RDM could arguably be better there too), and any other ragtag melee job that happens to be lucky enough to come along to Einherjar with you.

Although, I must admit that it's fun to point out that /NIN would have been better for Slimes after getting owned by them, just to rile up the people in LS who like to tell everyone how smart they are. :D

[ZhiGaruda]

I thought you gave up. You should have stayed down.

Gave up, psh.

I normally only troll, I mean, read BG, when I'm at work.

[Tagus]

If I was wrong, then my bad.

Kinda caught up on the whole thing all at once so it didn't look like Jamma stopped posting, while I most certainly did.

Yeah, that was totally @ Jamma. You probably got confused because he never directly responded to me, and changed the entire tune of his statements away from the /nin argument when I called him on trolling. Like a troll would.

[ringthree]

This thread is five pages too long because all of you forgot the most simple solution:

"I'm with Sath."

Sath pretty much covered all of the bases for this discussion on the first page. /SAM is better if your group can support it, and /NIN is better if your group needs the assistance.

/SAM will obviously lead to generally quicker kills and may be better for large groups or smaller groups with lots of support.

/NIN will obviously lead to generally safer kills and may be better for smaller groups or larger groups without lots of support.

What I want to know is why, in the year 2010, are people still forgetting the most common and useful statement ever generate on this fine forum?

Shit is situational!

PS: If you think Pchan is stupid, and you suddenly realize that Pchan has made an intelligent statement, it may not be the case that Pchan has instantly turned into Einstein, but instead that you have become a moron. Just sayin'.

[ZhiGaruda]

PS: If you think Pchan is stupid, and you suddenly realize that Pchan has made an intelligent statement, it may not be the case that Pchan has instantly turned into Einstein, but instead that you have become a moron. Just sayin'.

I suddenly want you

[Dramafinderftw]

I suddenly want you

what about me, or have you forgot about me?

[NynJa]

we go with 20-26 people. we have not lost an Einherjar since I have joined the shell. (14 monthes)

Additional note: most Einherjars we dont even see a 10 minute warning(probably because are melee are putting out so muchd amage so fast, as opposed to casting shadows being pussies)

Are you a fucking troll or something?

Have you never gotten a wave of:
6 Ormr
12 Ahriman / 12 Soulflayer
12 Logi / KB boss

in fact, have you ever gotten Ormr's to begin with?


I love how some of those posts are such full of shit statements trying to flex e-peen. Admit youre fucking exaggerating.

[Despain]

This entire argument started out because someone said /NIN is retarded, and other people pointed out that /NIN has its uses, and its not completely retarded.

Some of you have lost the entire point of the thread.

[ZhiGaruda]

what about me, or have you forgot about me?

What is love, baby don't hurt me..

[ringthree]

Are you a fucking troll or something?

Have you never gotten a wave of:
6 Ormr
12 Ahriman / 12 Soulflayer
12 Logi / KB boss

in fact, have you ever gotten Ormr's to begin with?


I love how some of those posts are such full of shit statements trying to flex e-peen. Admit youre fucking exaggerating.

I have observed that on different tiers and especially on different waves within the same zone that certain mobs have different offensive and defensive stats as well as different HP pools. 6 Ormr's is not always an instant loss even on the last wave of mobs. We have gotten some wicked scorpions on one run and then on the next run had dragons that were complete push overs.

[Valisk]

How do you handle those specific mobs?

Wreck shit? I believe EVERY person that comes DD to an Ex event has a relic.

[Shinryuu]

Hey Zhi will you love me forever if I outparse you? Do you need me? Will you never leave me? Will you make me so happy for the rest of my life?!

[ZhiGaruda]

I have observed that on different tiers and especially on different waves within the same zone that certain mobs have different offensive and defensive stats as well as different HP pools. 6 Ormr's is not always an instant loss even on the last wave of mobs. We have gotten some wicked scorpions on one run and then on the next run had dragons that were complete push overs.

Actually, Thorny was pointing this out like 3-4 runs around. We got a 6-dragon run, and they had (I parsed it, not at home to find the true figures) some 30-35k HP each.

The very next run, we got the same dragons again, and they were sub-5k HP. Huge WTF@that.

[Neoex]

Are you a fucking troll or something?

Have you never gotten a wave of:
6 Ormr
12 Ahriman / 12 Soulflayer
12 Logi / KB boss

in fact, have you ever gotten Ormr's to begin with?


I love how some of those posts are such full of shit statements trying to flex e-peen. Admit youre fucking exaggerating.

uh I assure you we have gotten every wave you have ever had, we have done einherjar odins every 2 weeks for 14 monthes(since ive joined the LS minus a week we took off for xmas holidays etc) without a loss that I recall, and never had more than 30 (we max out the zone occasionally for people buying amploues or feathers for odin, or odin mules.) and numbers as low as 18. Im not going to say we havent had close calls on time, or mistakes with agrod bosses or insanely large pulls, but I never recall one under 1 minute left. Most of the time we dont see the 10 minute warning.


And if you really think I am "full of shit" and want to see the Success/Failure rate we have records going back 2 years, feel free to look for yourself http://ex-online.com it not only shows success vs failure but number of participants.


There is no set of mobs we ever see and say oh shit we cannot beat this.

EDIT: Did some quick research for you in since the start of exDKP we have done 41 Odins 0 fails, (some probably got entered in the system as Einherjar on accident so number maybe higher)

[ringthree]

Actually, Thorny was pointing this out like 3-4 runs around. We got a 6-dragon run, and they had (I parsed it, not at home to find the true figures) some 30-35k HP each.

The very next run, we got the same dragons again, and they were sub-5k HP. Huge WTF@that.

I don't know if it is that surprising considering the effects that the Birds/Sheep/Tiger have on the run. It has been noticeable for quite some time. It would be better if we understood the exact conditions though.

[NynJa]

I have observed that on different tiers and especially on different waves within the same zone that certain mobs have different offensive and defensive stats as well as different HP pools. 6 Ormr's is not always an instant loss even on the last wave of mobs. We have gotten some wicked scorpions on one run and then on the next run had dragons that were complete push overs.

the superbuff Ormr's, I should have specified.

[ZhiGaruda]

I don't know if it is that surprising considering the effects that the Birds/Sheep/Tiger have on the run. It has been noticeable for quite some time. It would be better if we understood the exact conditions though.

I think we were looking at the next waves, and finding that the massively high HP mobs are accompanied by a very weak next wave.

Obviously not something we can just eyeball and assume, hey, weak mobs will have strong second waves and vice versa, but it may be something worth compiling over a long term (perhaps cross server, etc).

[Vedder]

I've noticed the fewer number of waves and the fewer number of mobs per wave will generally increase the chances of getting more high HP/stat mobs.

Once, we got one wave ... something like 6 Scorps, 6 Wivres, and Freke already popped. Each of the regular mobs were like a 90-120 second kill, due to the massive amount of HP they had. Other times, we've gotten 3 waves with 2 families of 12 mobs each per wave and they just melt in seconds.

[Wrish]

Well, Neoex got his point across. Ex reports two einherjar losses out of ~180 runs (5/26/09 w/ 25, 11/5/07 w/ 27). But when you mass that many people all with relics, you expect to do even better than 36 nominally competent players because of synergistic bonuses.

[Neoex]

And its not my point to flex e-peen or brag, but when people say its not possible to do this or that, my point being is it is possible.

and with a 98.9% win ratio people say your strats are stupid careless, cant beat certain tiers whatever they are the ones talking out of their ass.

Show me a linkshell with more documented Einherjar success and then ill look at the strat and concede it maybe better.