RPG Fightan Styles

[Ramor]

So, considering how many different systems and styles have come about in recent years as compared to the standard 1action/turn style of yesteryear, what is/are your favorite style(s) or particular engines and what makes you like them so much? Include things like skill activation, what kind of skills, the controls in your thought process rather than just "that RPG was really good, therefore the battle system must have been the best thing ever". A game can be bad but still have an ok to good battle system (however unlikely this is). Action-RPGs (WRPGS) vs. JRPG go.

Personally I'm a big fan of the old turn based style system, and I suppose FFX's system to some extent because of that. Although for a 'newer' and 'different' engine I'd have to say I'm a huge fan of Star Oceans, even though everyone seems to hate that game I enjoyed all of it, but most importantly actually fighting stuff.

I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of things like The Elder Scrolls at all, I tried it and wasn't particularly captivated by the fightan going on in that game. Things like darkfall fall under that category for me also, that kind of system just seems bulky and odd to me, or rather I don't think anyone has actually done it correctly yet.

I also haven't had a chance to play all kinds of the newer RPGs/Action RPGs, or my experience with them has been limited anyway.

[Gokulo]

Star Ocean/ Tales of battle system for its action nature. Plays really cool and is quite engaging.
Shadow Hearts battle system. Ring of Judgment ftw~
Atlus SMT and co. - because the weakness exploit system makes for some cool strategies and new dangers.
Legaia games - typing combos, fun stuff.
FFX-2 - one of the best ATB forms for me.

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

I love action RPGs; Phantasy Star Online is great <3

Star Ocean was decent as well.

[Ramor]

FFX-2 - one of the best ATB forms for me.

I was trying to think of an example of 'bad game good battle system', this perfectly fits the bill. I loved the battle system no matter how goofy the game was as a whole.

[Correction]

Are we talking specifically about combat systems here? Because there's quite a bit of variation amongst the turnbased vs. omg react now systems.

I have a soft spot for the Chrono Trigger way of doing things, where the more powerful attacks were combo attacks based on who was in your group, or where specific synergies exist between certain characters that mesh well, and forming the right 'squad' netted strategic bonuses for fights (thinking Valkyria Chronicles as an example that underutilized this).

I'm also a big fan of RPG 'chess' where there positioning and terrain matter. <3 Ogre Tactics and the long line of games that spawned.

I was never a fan of 'oh look all the characters can effectively be the same at every role' systems. The homogenization of skills that started in FFVI and got worse through FFX was disheartening, and my enjoyment of such games were contingent entirely on their novelty and storytelling (which got weaker as the FF series went on).

Combat systems like Morrowind/Oblivion make me want to rip off my arms, the 'bowstring' metaphor to clicking a mouse button for attacks was awful with monsters who loved to swarm around and attack you from unseen angles and made me roll a stealth/mage character every time. Combat systems that score points with me make the ranged/upclose combat a uniformly positive experience, and not feel like a pair of shackles that only one corner of the gameplay suffers from. I guess that's why I liked Diablo II so much.

[Sol-Blackguy]

I used to like turn based and ATB for a while, but started to like the pseudo real-time combat systems that a lot of games have been doing. Some have good features mixed with some bad and others have a few good ones in a all around horrible system. After thinking about it what if you mixed and matched a few systems to get the "perfect combat system"

Perfect scenario for me would be:
-FF12 system with AI targeting similar to Gambits but you get them all in the begining
-A slow down feature for entering the menus (forgot what game did this but it was awesome)
-Rogue Galaxy's suggestion feature where AI party members gave you a choice of what skill/item they should use. (slowdown feature included)
-Tales series' instant character switching with the L/R buttons
-Shadowrun's (genesis version) stat development system (look it up)
-Tales series timer after using items (to reduce spamming)
-Xenosaga Ep. 2's bosses that actually required strategy (only good thing about that game)
-FF7's limit breaks mixed with FF9's trance (should vary per character)
-Rogue Galaxy's random encounters
-Wild Arms series' Vitality stat that allows you to heal a % of HP/MP after battles
-A fucking pause button (I've seen 2 real time RPGs that didn't fucking pause)
-English/Japanese dialogue option

[Ramor]

SRPGs are really awesome too imo, I really enjoyed FFT/FFTA2. As for things like Diablo I'm not quite sure how to classify them, but I fucking loved Diablo 2 and am really enjoying Torchlight (no surprise there). I love the skill trees in Diablo 2, but hated the amount of planning you'd have to end up doing simply because of a lack of respec, which I hear they sorta put in 1.11 or whatever the newest patch is.

I honestly didn't like FF12's battle system that much, probably because it reminded me of XI on a deeper level than I could begin to describe. I liked the idea of gambits, but as you mentioned unlocking them was a pain.

[Kiarax]

Action RPG are definitely my favourite now. Tales games taking the crown in that aspect. For turn based Grandia II is by far my favourite and imo no other series has even come close to replicating such an awesome battle system and anyone who hasn't played it needs to stop doing themselves a disservice and get on that shit. Second favourite would be a toss up between FF:Tactics or X-2.

[DeathbySnoosnoo]

Demon's Souls, ya i know its not a traditional rpg, but I like how the fighting is done.
Maybe improved to be more like Bushido blade fighting with no hp bars. God I miss that game....

[Kyo]

I too prefer action RPG's as well, some old turn based still appeal to me, but ultimatley prefer action RPG's. Kotor, Fallout 3, Demon Souls, Fable 2, Star Ocean 3 (havent played 4), and tales games highlight these. My favorite old school style RPG's would have to be grandia 2, Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Mana and FF 9/10.

[Sol-Blackguy]

SRPGs are really awesome too imo, I really enjoyed FFT/FFTA2. As for things like Diablo I'm not quite sure how to classify them, but I fucking loved Diablo 2 and am really enjoying Torchlight (no surprise there). I love the skill trees in Diablo 2, but hated the amount of planning you'd have to end up doing simply because of a lack of respec, which I hear they sorta put in 1.11 or whatever the newest patch is.

I honestly didn't like FF12's battle system that much, probably because it reminded me of XI on a deeper level than I could begin to describe. I liked the idea of gambits, but as you mentioned unlocking them was a pain.

Diablo has by far one of the best systems and you're right that it's hard to classify. If the buffs acted like Paladin Auras where you activate it once you switch to the macro, it'd be perfect.

I still believe that 12 was some kind of blueprint for 11 that got scrapped during production. Both systems are almost identical in places and having a bar to tell the next time you were going to attack would have been a godsend for 11. FF11 was like the programmers thought we didn't hate SE enough after FF8. I still think it's by far one of the most user unfriendly control schemes in the history of games especially when you needed 3rd party mods to actually make the damn thing work. I might be a little biased from being a RDM, but that's my 2 cents.

Gambits were a great step in the right direction. After seeing the DVD included with the collector's edition that showed how much better the system would have been before they dumbed it down, I was kind of let down by it. There were supposed to me almost twice as many gambits that would allow you to steal until you actually got something, stop using soul eater after your HP dropped to a certain %, have allies stop auto attacking so you could "poach" mobs, and a bunch of other helpful yet meticulous features. It kind of pisses me off when designers think we're retarded or something and ruin an already good system, difficulty level, or boss fight.

Also I'm a huge fan of boss fights that require thinking. I've probably mentioned the Albedo fight in Xenosaga 2 in other threads. But that's a prime example off good bosses. Having to target certain body parts, memorize an attack pattern that requires you to "block" during certain turns, or play around with elemental weaknesses/resistances adds a lot of dimension instead of having an enemy with insanely high HP and can deal a lot of damage in a short amount of time. A lot of bosses in that game reminded me of Mega Man, Punch Out, and the KOF series.

[Kurokikaze]

FFX-2 as much as I hate to admit it definitely was the pinnacle of the ATB fighting system. I'd liked to see that brought back and re-invented with a storyline that doesn't make you want to stab yourself.

FFX-2's ATB
SO4/Tales encounters (no more random encounter)
Character specific abilities (i.e. Limit Breaks, Trance etc. Gives characters more of a role in the party than what we've been seeing lately where everyone is a jack of all trades.)
Strategy elements- Remember when these games weren't just about spamming your best abilities? Tactics game have the right idea in regards to: where you're attacking from, where you're standing, environment blah blah blah. SO2 had some environmental hazards in a few of the dungeons - thats a step in step in the right direction.
Control of entire party in combat - This is just my opinion, but I liked giving orders for the entire group instead of relying on the AI. Sometimes when you're forced to rely on the AI you end up doing their job anyways... If you played ToV then you will agree that more often than not you had to remind Estelle that it was time to cure.
Multiplayer - While I like my single player experience I would not mind having one of my friends control one of the party members and kick some ass. ToV let you do this, but not online which was upsetting.

We can talk all day about how jRPGs can tweak their battle systems to help breathe some life back into the genre... but unfortunately they need a lot more than just that. The genre has not aged well.

On a side note: Fallout/Oblivion/Fable combat don't interest me as much as regular turn based games. I actually find those games pretty boring.

Thats all for now. :X

[Ramor]

I'd say one of my biggest problems with a fair amount of RPG battle systems is that you basically end up shooting for one or two skills or abilities, and generally forego the rest in lieu of those new abilities simply because your older ones have almost no application anymore.

Nothing comes to mind where that really doesn't play out, except maybe Diablo 2 which has a few skills for each class that could definitely stick around for a while that you get early but don't get real powerful until later with all of the synergies.

I suppose my ideal system is something along the lines of Diablo 2 + Star Ocean (the nice sandbox environment for each fight is a cool idea I think) + Gambit system for other party members (assuming it isn't a solo game).

That or classic turn-based, I like the idea of bosses doing something periodically and you having to plan ahead, instead of something just doing a giant AoE and then you running around for 2 minutes healing everyone.

[Diamicles]

FFT for turn based
DA:O for hybrid
Diablo2 for 'active'

[Arew]

Third person action RPG's are probably my favorite; Demon's Souls, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, etc.. I don't really like the first person one's like Fallout 3 and the like.

[sephir]

I loved FFXII's battle system. The fact everything was seamless and it flowed so well together really made it something wonderful.

Tales of Vesperia also had a great battle system, as did Star Ocean (Even though the newest Story was 'meh').

I like the action RPG's, but at the same time I do need my fix of an older style battle system. Not just the battle system but the battle mechanics are also very important to me. Of this battle mechanics I think the materia system from VII was excellent, but nowadays it seems a little constrictive.

[Lucavi]

I may be the only person to enjoy the "War General" style of Ogre Battle 64. Managing an army and issuing tactics that will be followed more closely the more experience your units receive under you and having team attacks between squad-members the more they fight together was cash.

Having 2 sirens in the back row guarded by two cataphracts and a paladin in the front row spamming elemental combination magic was just awesome. I really wish they'd make a new game in the same line as Ogre Battle 64.

Oh, FFT as well. Definitely remake or make a sequel to FFT, preferably with the same musician doing the soundtrack. Run Past Through the Plains was the best song ever.

[Elcura]

If there's something to hate about Star Ocean, it certainly isn't the battle system. Most of the time, when people say they don't like SO, it's because of the story or characters.

[Lucavi]

I didn't exactly enjoy the voice acting, at least in the original, although I know its much better now than back then. The battle system was always well done, so long as you weren't trying to use a hand-to-hand fighter. Lack of range got people killed in those games.

[TacoTaru]

Turn based will always be my favorite. Fallout 3 is really the only action RPG that I've played that's pulled me in and made me love it. That being said I dislike Elder Scrolls' combat a lot.

Chrono Trigger's team abilities mixed with Lost Odyssey's ring system would be a nice balance for a new turn based RPG, otherwise I'm perfectly content with the ways of even the original Final Fantasy over action based.