Google v. China

[GRT]

Meh, not schools, they don't have that many schools back then. More of that little "red book" thingmangy. But that's my point exactly, it was Mao's call to "culturally revolte," couple million people responded in their local communities and before soon it was a national movement of billions. Almost like a friggin zombie movie.

Remember, too, that most of the army Mao had desolved back into farmers during the great leap forward.

[Zhais]

I heard the words 'socialism' and 'corporations' mentioned in the same thread, figured I should show up.

[Demosthenes11]

haha, i just skimmed a little bit cuz my head is pounding (i'll read more tomorrow), but the average chinese citizen knows damn well how the government treats the Uyghurs and are more or less for it lol

the chinese are really racist people heh. they hate the uyghurs and are pretty afraid of them. Some of it is due to government indoctrinating (right now they are afraid the uyghurs will prick them with aids needles lol ) but most of it id say is due to fear and mistrust of foreigners

[Kuya]

The chinese are a threat to human rights worldwide. This is why we need to destroy them.

[pahnphoenix]

i was going to say something about corporations, human rights, western academics underestimating individualism in eastern thought and history, point out that i agree it's at least 50/50 that google is pointing this out to spin a business move, but really i just want to note that this thread and some of the posts in it remind me of hard-boiled wonderland and the end of the world, which is a pretty good book (though as with any murakami book, i strongly advise AGAINST reading any blurb on amazon, the back of the book, or anything else about it before actually reading it. unless of course you're not going to read it, in which case i have no advice).

[Plow]

The chinese are a threat to human rights worldwide. This is why we need to destroy them.

let's do like a firefighting water bomb drop attack, except with aids blood

[dejet]

it is not so much google taking down google.ca but tking away almost anything google does. Google is more then google.com/ any other google.whatever.


google.com
google maps
google wave
google books
translations

anything you can think of google does it lol.
google is almost always at the front of anything it does, hell for a long time yahoo used googles engine. Just shows you all that.

[Beckwin]

haha, i just skimmed a little bit cuz my head is pounding (i'll read more tomorrow), but the average chinese citizen knows damn well how the government treats the Uyghurs and are more or less for it lol

the chinese are really racist people heh. they hate the uyghurs and are pretty afraid of them. Some of it is due to government indoctrinating (right now they are afraid the uyghurs will prick them with aids needles lol ) but most of it id say is due to fear and mistrust of foreigners

So is it nationalist xenophobia nurtured by government indoctrination or is it just collectivism?

I'm so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Demosthenes11]

So is it nationalist xenophobia nurtured by government indoctrination or is it just collectivism?

I'm so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

all of the above haha

[GRT]

ya the Chinese are pretty fuckin racist, but you can argue every other country without a good mix of people from different races/cultures tend to be pretty fuckin racist

and inb4 america is fuckin racist

(wow that means america was a collectivistic nation before the end of slavery, holy shit biggest scientific discovery of the century so far)

[Beckwin]

all of the above haha

which is exactly why I reel so hard against the easy-way-out answer of "oh, collectivism explains it all." Not just in respect to this particular issue with China, but lots of other gross generalizations and such of Asian countries.

ya the Chinese are pretty fuckin racist, but you can argue every other country without a good mix of people from different races/cultures tend to be pretty fuckin racist

and inb4 america is fuckin racist

yeah, pretty much. the application of racism varies, but largely homogenous cultures do tend to have fairly widespread racist/xenophobic views. however you can observe this changing with development/industrialization and becoming more involved in the international community.

[GRT]

meh, xenophobia is also more easily brewed in a collectivistic culture because of their distinct mindfulness between ingroup and outgroup, so ya, i still say it's largely caused by cultural value

but anyway, whether it's impassive to caring ot just inherent evil, nothing anybody else -- whether it is google or the U.S. military -- is gonna be able to do anything about it with how friggin huge and badass China has already become, so why argue?

[Beckwin]

man I dunno about that... America, England, Israel, Italy, etc are all generally considered pretty individualistic compared to major Asian countries yet there's certainly strong xenophobic sentiments there... with the latter two you could point to homogeneity and with the former you can identify most of the sentiment with the ethnic/racial majority.

[Demosthenes11]

man I dunno about that... America, England, Israel, Italy, etc are all generally considered pretty individualistic compared to major Asian countries yet there's certainly strong xenophobic sentiments there... with the latter two you could point to homogeneity and with the former you can identify most of the sentiment with the ethnic/racial majority.

comparing western xenophobia with chinese xenophobia only shows you don't know anything about china

we are a Utopian society when it comes to foreigners compared to them

[Beckwin]

China's attitudes towards southeast asians and ethnic minorities shares at least some common ground/themes with popular views about Mexicans in America, Muslims in England, Palestinians in Israel, etc.

But instead of tossing around insulting claims, how about you grace us with your insight.

[GRT]

man I dunno about that... America, England, Israel, Italy, etc are all generally considered pretty individualistic compared to major Asian countries yet there's certainly strong xenophobic sentiments there... with the latter two you could point to homogeneity and with the former you can identify most of the sentiment with the ethnic/racial majority.

well, ingroup/outgroup behavior exists in any social structure, it's just more easily distinguished and formulated in a collectivistic culture. If I still had my old psychology textbooks I'd probably reference some Sherif or Milgram or whatever study to show you how drastic the difference, but since I don't, not gonna bother ;p

[Kuya]

China's attitudes towards southeast asians and ethnic minorities shares at least some common ground/themes with popular views about Mexicans in America, Muslims in England, Palestinians in Israel, etc.

But instead of tossing around insulting claims, how about you grace us with your insight.

Maybe you should say in what way they are similar, hopefully something more than superficial, because in the case of Israel (because it's a case that i know of) the issue is historically contextual.

[Kuya]

well, ingroup/outgroup behavior exists in any social structure, it's just more easily distinguished and formulated in a collectivistic culture. If I still had my old psychology textbooks I'd probably reference some Sherif or Milgram or whatever study to show you how drastic the difference, but since I don't, not gonna bother ;p

Ingroup/outgroup dynamics don't manifest just because. A proper way to understand it is that concrete historical issues are raised as instances of grievance, then some form of narrative is created that targets specific groups for said grievances. What i mean to say is, outgroup/ingroup dynamics is a mechanism via which one can understand xenophobia, but it doesn't explain it by itself. I don't think it's enough to just point and say that this is a collectivist culture therefore xenophobia.

[GRT]

oh man, it most DEFINITELY manifest just because, could be the most arbitrary reason: longer skirts vs. mini skirts, chocolate vs. vanilla, coke vs pepsi

it takes a larger context for large scale ingroup/outgroup dynamic (such as xenophobia) to occur, of course, and it is there that collectivism vs. individualism is distinguished in this aspect


oh and if you go back to my post above, you'd see i didn't say xenophobia occured due to collectivism, that'd be ridiculous, i said it takes hold more easily among those with more collectivistic values

[Kuya]

Of course, but unfortunately, i don't really see much context in this discussion. I wish someone with a grasp of Chinese history and sociology would tell us what underlies this alleged pronounced xenophobia. Instruments from psychology and sociological concepts, i fear, aren't enough for this kind of analysis.

To summarize, i'd like to hear historical analysis of this xenophobia.