What's Better?

[isladar]

Rocl:To avoid the unecessary creation of thousands of simple gear comparison threads, we'll attempt to make this your generic gear question thread. If it doesn't work, I blame Suiram. If it does work, all credit goes to me. So let us begin with the OP's question:


Blau Dolch or Stylet??

Original Thread: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/46517-whats-better.html

The Second Thread

The Thread Formally Known As The Third

WAS IST BETTERSTEIN IV

Jem and the Holograms vs The Misfits V

[isladar]

Sorry if I cut anyone off. Feel free to requote and get your question re-ignored in the midst of some epic Thorny vs. Pchan fight.

[requim]

In response to Callisto asking about polearm build for war.

Pretty sure engsuto is a better weapon (and can augment/synergize).

Also if you could get that coupled with a rajas ring you would drop a hit for your build, which would be a pretty large increase in exchange for lolcrit.

Given your build you're just slightly over shooting accuracy so you could swap out weapons and than be able to use rajas/flame/blitz full time. Echor is a garbage ring if it isn't giving you enough stp, which it isn't. Penta has an accuracy bonus, unsure how much, but I would guess you would want to low ball the accuracy you would need, so ws in forager's over cuch at the very least.

What do your war merits look like? Because full GA merits and no pole arm merits really shift whether or not a polearm is worth doing. Swap out cuch for forager's and gondo for perdu and you'll basically have 95% acc in both cases except your war will have like 100+ more attack with kabobs.

Samurai's like polearm because they are moving from a single hit WS to a multihit WS while dropping a hit. Wars making the change in my opinion are just sidegrading, if not downgrading because they already have two strong multihit WSs and can fuck up their hit builds by moving to a lower delay weapon.

[Callisto]

In response to Callisto asking about polearm build for war.

Pretty sure engsuto is a better weapon (and can augment/synergize).

Also if you could get that coupled with a rajas ring you would drop a hit for your build, which would be a pretty large increase in exchange for lolcrit.

Given your build you're just slightly over shooting accuracy so you could swap out weapons and than be able to use rajas/flame/blitz full time. Echor is a garbage ring if it isn't giving you enough stp, which it isn't. Penta has an accuracy bonus, unsure how much, but I would guess you would want to low ball the accuracy you would need, so ws in forager's over cuch at the very least.

What do your war merits look like? Because full GA merits and no pole arm merits really shift whether or not a polearm is worth doing. Swap out cuch for forager's and gondo for perdu and you'll basically have 95% acc in both cases except your war will have like 100+ more attack with kabobs.

Samurai's like polearm because they are moving from a single hit WS to a multihit WS while dropping a hit. Wars making the change in my opinion are just sidegrading, if not downgrading because they already have two strong multihit WSs and can fuck up their hit builds by moving to a lower delay weapon.

I have no room for combat merits for either weapon(8 Sword/8 Marks/4 Shield). Atm Ecphoria is just a placeholder, in my GA build it actually makes the difference between a natural 6-hit or not with Agg up(Askar body), I'm waiting on Lamina to put out and that'll be the mandy ring set instead with Agg down.

And yeah I wasn't sure if polearm was supposed to be an upgrade or not, I had seen a lot of chatter about it for WAR so I went ahead and tried it, but it really did not seem to compare to my Perdu/Rune/Fort #s, and I wasn't sure if it was just because those were a better option or if I was doing it wrong.

[isladar]

Get a Rajas, you're doing it wrong.

[Callisto]

shush, I'm dropping your Rajas for a Sattva when you finish PLD

edit: and yeah @ req, Tamas4lyfe for me so Rajas is out, I have Flames/Thunders available though.

[requim]

Personally I bring a polearm with me just for those instances where you might be getting madrigal or hunter's roll. Because it can fully benefit from any accuracy buff (nevermind why you have acc buff) it can potentially out do GA given various buffs.

For instance, your build will have capped accuracy given hunter's roll, whereas that's freakishly too much accuracy for a GA. That's basically the only time I bother to use polearm on warrior in general since under those buffs the difference is only ~50 attack and equal accuracy.

But as far as I know, I've not seen any warrior's parsing amazingly better with a polearm than a GA. They can definitely compare, but nothing like an improvement of a sam going gk=>plm.

[Callisto]

So basically if getting Acc buff, meat + Polearm, if not meat + GA?

[requim]

Holy shit you actually wasted that ring on a tamas?

Why? Buy a snow ring or quit meleeing.

Of the three tamas is the worst. It's -3 enmity on a snow ring, why not just go augment a snow ring? Really, -3 enmity will do nothing for you, it's not even the difference between casting another spell's worth of hate reduction. If you're crazy about mages and refuse to melee, sure knock yourself out. But it's such a waste gimping your war.

Sattva is a mermaid ring +1, which getting like 15 more VE on your flash isn't even noticeable. Given that vit is essentially worthless on anything with str > > > your vit, and agi is out like drone earrings, it's again pretty crappy. Given that lava's and kusha's rings are better to idle in than sattva...

Rajas gives you the ability to increase your WS frequency by like a straight up 16%. So for a job that is probably hovering around 50/50, that's the most increase you can get from anything else you could do to your gear. Not to mention it also gives you 3.75atk/acc on top of 1~2 fstr and two relevant stats for RR. So on top of WS frequency it's just the best TP ring aside from salvage ulth or mars.

I don't get why people opt for -3 enmity or +1 enmity in comparison to a ring that could increase your damage by like a fifth.

[requim]

So basically if getting Acc buff, meat + Polearm, if not meat + GA?

In my opinion yes...of course when would you ever be getting accuracy buffs? I'm pretty sure for a bard, marches always beat madrigal at 75. For pure damage I can see hunter's popping up, but in merits it should be chaos/corsair.

Silly bards make me wear silly things, like an ISNM last week where I used eng > hagun since he thought the monk would want madrigal over march (which did better than the acc overkilling other GK sam).

[Callisto]

To be fair I only had RDM when I finished CoP, lol. I've debated dropping it but RDM is and will always be my main job first and foremost, WAR is a hobby merit job that I bring to maybe one LS event a month tops. I don't dispute the value of Rajas to melees at all, it's just that I'm on either RDM or SCH the majority of my time online, PLD next after that, with WAR/COR/BRD being tied for a distant fourth.

In my opinion yes...of course when would you ever be getting accuracy buffs? I'm pretty sure for a bard, marches always beat madrigal at 75.

When you get a JP COR that refuses to change rolls

[Cream Soda]

To be fair I only had RDM when I finished CoP, lol. I've debated dropping it but RDM is and will always be my main job first and foremost, WAR is a hobby merit job that I bring to maybe one LS event a month tops. I don't dispute the value of Rajas to melees at all, it's just that I'm on either RDM or SCH the majority of my time online, PLD next after that, with WAR/COR/BRD being tied for a distant fourth.



When you get a JP COR that refuses to change rolls

Drop them and get a better one ?

[Callisto]

I'm never the party lead in that situation, lol. I don't do PUG that often anymore, only during early afternoon when LSmates aren't home yet, our CORs know how to conduct business properly.

Usually it's the situation where I'd normally just diva it up and drop but I just walked all the way out there and don't have anything else to do for the next hour or two.

[Cream Soda]

I'm never the party lead in that situation, lol. I don't do PUG that often anymore, only during early afternoon when LSmates aren't home yet, our CORs know how to conduct business properly.

Usually it's the situation where I'd normally just diva it up and drop but I just walked all the way out there and don't have anything else to do for the next hour or two.

Swap to another wep and skill up? If they're going to leech, you may as well, too.

[Callisto]

Yeah I gotta start bringing Staff out.

[requim]

RDM/DNC GOOOOOOOOOOOO, you'll have tons of accuracy with hunters! You don't even need sushi to get 95% accuracy

[Callisto]

Ugh don't get me going there, lol. And I said it in another thread but forgot to bring it up here re: Rajas, in theoretical conditions it'd have the increase in WS output that you said, but I did forget to mention that I am pretty much always first-voking, and fulltiming Hasso/Retaliation.

In actual practice the hits I'm taking as well as 2nd/3rd WS hits are making up the sTP loss, so I'm still sporting an effective 6-hit for the entirety of the time, it's more just STR/Atk I'm missing from there.

[Cream Soda]

Ugh don't get me going there, lol. And I said it in another thread but forgot to bring it up here re: Rajas, in theoretical conditions it'd have the increase in WS output that you said, but I did forget to mention that I am pretty much always first-voking, and fulltiming Hasso/Retaliation.

In actual practice the hits I'm taking as well as 2nd/3rd WS hits are making up the sTP loss, so I'm still sporting an effective 6-hit for the entirety of the time, it's more just STR/Atk I'm missing from there.

Well maybe doing all that + rajas would be a 5hit ever think of that?!?!

[Callisto]

mind = blown

But I guess I'm curious as to how many hits I'd actually need to take per 6 swings for that to be true.

[isladar]

There are like three threads going on RIGHT NOW with people telling you to get a goddamn Rajas.