What's Better?

[pchan]

justice because you gain dualwield

[Narse]

Concerning sea gorgets vs. sea torques, and multi-hit WSs, I assume there are various stages that one is better than the other. The problem I'm currently having is figuring out just how sea gorgets effect the damage of the first hit. To my understanding, it would effect a WS like Guillotine by altering its first swing damage (which after modifers are totaled is *.875) and adds .1 to that (making the first hit .975). Assuming the 3 accuracy difference is negligible, are you better off WSing in a sea gorget, or with a Justice torque, overall? What kind of damge difference are you looking at on the first hit? And how would this same math effect a different WS such as Drakesbane, where the sea torque stat does not effect the modifer of the WS all, but the damage modifier of the WS is 1.0 instead of a fraction (point being that .875 to .975 is a bigger % increase than 1.0 to 1.1)?

[pchan]

Concerning sea gorgets vs. sea torques, and multi-hit WSs, I assume there are various stages that one is better than the other. The problem I'm currently having is figuring out just how sea gorgets effect the damage of the first hit. To my understanding, it would effect a WS like Guillotine by altering its first swing damage (which after modifers are totaled is *.875) and adds .1 to that (making the first hit .975). Assuming the 3 accuracy difference is negligible, are you better off WSing in a sea gorget, or with a Justice torque, overall? What kind of damge difference are you looking at on the first hit? And how would this same math effect a different WS such as Drakesbane, where the sea torque stat does not effect the modifer of the WS all, but the damage modifier of the WS is 1.0 instead of a fraction (point being that .875 to .975 is a bigger % increase than 1.0 to 1.1)?

If you have 1.0 fstp on first hit, then it's +10% damage on first hit, +0% on additional hits. So in the case of guillotine it's like having a ftp of (0.975+1+1) instead of (0.875+1+1) which is a 3.4% increase. If you get 7 attack from the torque, and the 5 str, justice should beat, under capped accuracy. Unless you have too high attack. For instance if you only have dia3/meat/double march 7 attack + 3-4 attack from STR5 is ~ 10 attack which should be close to 2.5% / 3% increase while 1 fstr is probably adding around 1% : 3.5%/4%. Now if you get chaos roll, it's probably the other way around. In the first case the damage difference would be under 1%.

[Wolfknight]

Concerning sea gorgets vs. sea torques, and multi-hit WSs, I assume there are various stages that one is better than the other. The problem I'm currently having is figuring out just how sea gorgets effect the damage of the first hit.
how would this same math effect a different WS such as Drakesbane, where the sea torque stat does not effect the modifer of the WS all, but the damage modifier of the WS is 1.0 instead of a fraction (point being that .875 to .975 is a bigger % increase than 1.0 to 1.1)?

Guillotine is has been covered while on drakesbane 4.0[1+1+1+1] > 4.1[1.1+1+1+1] is a 2.5% increase in damage on average non-DA'd WS.

While for love torque I don't think just 7 att will offer enough ever to increase damage that much, so would only be possible better when it's moving your dDEX from 45 to capped[50] with no other options to do so.

[cdgreg]

BLM enfeeb macros
Sturm's report or P tathlum?
Tamas ring or Balrahn's?
Gaiters or Goliard or R pumps?

It's been awhile, I can't remember if the int to enfeeb magic ratio is 1 to .9 or no.

Current blm enfeeb set has 296 skill, 98 int, and 3 MACC using P tath,omega/tamas, and R pumps for the -2% spellcast time.

If shit is situational or it's such a marginal difference it doesn't matter that's fine.

[Byrthnoth]

Sturm's report, Balrahn's, start casting in R.pumps, land in Goliard, switch to gaiters to cancel animation

... and no, you won't be able to tell the difference.

[cdgreg]

Sturm's report, Balrahn's, start casting in R.pumps, land in Goliard, switch to gaiters to cancel animation

... and no, you won't be able to tell the difference.

I see that I must begin utilizing spellcast more than just ele torque/uggy pendant. Thanks

edit: just caught your edit, threw it into the quote.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, it's not actually worth using precast Spellcast macro to put on Fastcast gear unless you're getting a pretty significant gain out of it or you're leaving it on for the cast (long casting time).

You're probably better off just leaving Rostrums in the MH unless you use them for your Sorc Ring macro.

[cdgreg]

Well, it's not actually worth using precast Spellcast macro to put on Fastcast gear unless you're getting a pretty significant gain out of it or you're leaving it on for the cast (long casting time).

You're probably better off just leaving Rostrums in the MH unless you use them for your Sorc Ring macro.

Nah I don't use them for sorc ring, a long time ago I put them in my dark magic stun macro for the -2% spellcasting time back when I was trying to stun homing missile on a regular basis.

At some point before I had goliard and re-bought gaiters I stuck them in my enfeeb macros figuring that -2% may save my ass .01% of the time when getting hit while casting making it go off before SS breaks.

I'll probably take your advice and cast/land in Goliard and try to blink the cast with gaiters. I'm looking to get back into endgame after a 6ish month break and want to maximize my macros.

[Cooleko]

@PCHAN, Shenlongs better than Sainti+1?

[Cream Soda]

@PCHAN, Shenlongs better than Sainti+1?

That should be self explanatory

[pchan]

@PCHAN, Shenlongs better than Sainti+1?

That's easy to tell

+51 delay vs +49 delay
+2/3 DMG

clearly it's better. But Hades sainti +1 has its use, I have no doubt the HS+1 mnk would be having hate over the shenlong's and therefore countering more. So it's all about +3 DMG vs being the only one to counter.

[Cream Soda]

That's easy to tell

+51 delay vs +49 delay
+2/3 DMG

clearly it's better. But Hades sainti +1 has its use, I have no doubt the HS+1 mnk would be having hate over the shenlong's and therefore countering more. So it's all about +3 DMG vs being the only one to counter.

Only one to counter? You're a moron. Both will cap hate. "only one to counter" is a huge overstatement.

Also, learn to speak English before attempting to make a reply.

[pchan]

Only one to counter? You're a moron. Both will cap hate. "only one to counter" is a huge overstatement.

Also, learn to speak English before attempting to make a reply.

You don't cap hate because you take damage moron. Hi2you 800 Mortal revolution AOE and 500 discoid, 300 aoe disharge and single hit non crit's for 500 damage of BR boss. 1 damage taken = ~ -1.2 CE. You never cap CE. You are tanking a Salvage boss not a colibri.

[Byrthnoth]

Okay, but if both MNKs had access to Shenlong's which would be better?

You increase your own personal damage by holding hate with Hades +1's Enmity+9, but you decrease the damage the party does compared to if you were letting the Shenlong's MNK counter because he has higher weapon damage.

[pchan]

Okay, but if both MNKs had access to Shenlong's which would be better?

You increase your own personal damage by holding hate with Hades +1's Enmity+9, but you decrease the damage the party does compared to if you were letting the Shenlong's MNK counter because he has higher weapon damage.

Yes i'm aware of this. If both have shenlong it's better than 2x HS+1.

[Seedz]

Settler's cape is a HP down macro piece only. Swapping to Valor Cape nets you 70HP and 3 enmity.

Also 2 x Shenlong's > 2 x HS +1.

[Fottiti]

You don't cap hate because you take damage moron. Hi2you 800 Mortal revolution AOE and 500 discoid, 300 aoe disharge and single hit non crit's for 500 damage of BR boss. 1 damage taken = ~ -1.2 CE. You never cap CE. You are tanking a Salvage boss not a colibri.

Wut, with 2 monks on a chariot you should be recapping CE between every tp move (or atleast every other because if you WS you will easily do enough).

If you take 800 damage from MR you will lose ~960 CE, you will only need to do ~740 damage to recap before its next tp which even without penance shouldn't be very difficult.

The Hades monk get hate 1 or 2 times more often but nothing like as drastic as what you are suggesting.

[Shinryuu]

You don't cap hate because you take damage moron. Hi2you 800 Mortal revolution AOE and 500 discoid, 300 aoe disharge and single hit non crit's for 500 damage of BR boss. 1 damage taken = ~ -1.2 CE. You never cap CE. You are tanking a Salvage boss not a colibri.

... so the guy with more enmity loses hate faster due to damage taken, and therefore the Shenlong's guy will also have plenty of counter opportunity. Way to defeat your own argument, champ.

[Kirschy]

Wut, with 2 monks on a chariot you should be recapping CE between every tp move (or atleast every other because if you WS you will easily do enough).

If you take 800 damage from MR you will lose ~960 CE, you will only need to do ~740 damage to recap before its next tp which even without penance shouldn't be very difficult.

The Hades monk get hate 1 or 2 times more often but nothing like as drastic as what you are suggesting.

It's not only that, but keep in mind that VE decays at 60 VE/sec, and is constantly recapped every hit and ws. Combine that with the actuality that people don't engage at the same time, and that per hit damage varies. The Enmity+ helping counterstance is overstated. Calculations and models help comparisons, but if your model concludes "So it's all about +3 DMG vs being the only one to counter.", then your model has problems.