What's Better?

[Argettio]

Yeah, I actually wrote that and then deleted it. Anyway, apart from that you can also only double attack once on 1-hit WSs, so DA helps much much less on them. One time when I did the math I ended up borderline believing Triumph was better than Brutal for Gekko. Also, DA'ed hits don't double your gekko damage, they only increase it by about 400, which indicates to me that the cRatio bonus doesn't transfer to them.

So yeah, you can essentially say that for 1-hit spamming SAM, Warrior's Roll helps their WS damage by an almost trivial amount (like 2% or something). At the same time, it boosts their WS frequency by probably ~10% and DoT by 13-14%. So it's probably marginally worse for a 6-hit Gekko spamming SAM than Samurai's Roll, which would increase their WS frequency by ~20%.

Any other job in a typical merit situation would prefer Warrior's Roll with a Warrior most of the time though.

I don't know about the cratio boost, but all non-first hits of a WS have an fTP of 1 (compared to the 1.8-3 on gekko).

[Byrthnoth]

Sorry, maybe that's what I concluded before. Either way, even if you do land a DA on a 1-hit WS you do dramatically less than 2x-normal damage.

[mdkuser]

actually one hit ws take more advantage of double attacks. a gekko receiving a DA is boosted by 50%. A 5-hit dancing edge is boosted by 20%.

[Shinryuu]

50%ish minus the loss in pDIF bonus and ACC bonus, you mean.

[mdkuser]

50%ish minus the loss in pDIF bonus and ACC bonus, you mean.

is there parsed data somewhere that proves that the DA'd hit dont have the acc and attack boost?

[Callisto]

is there parsed data somewhere that proves that the DA'd hit dont have the acc and attack boost?

Is that something that can even be parsed?

[Byrthnoth]

Do you think 1/6 of your Gekkos DA'ed on SAM/WAR with Brutal and Pole?
17% DA rate * .95% Acc = 16.15%, which is about 1/6
So unless you're seeing a double attack land on one out of every 6 WSs you do, odds are pretty good that at least the Accuracy boost doesn't transfer. As for the Attack boost, I'm not sure. It seems more likely to me now that they have the Attack boost than it did before, though we know that they don't get the fTP boost.

[mdkuser]

Is that something that can even be parsed?

if a DA'd gekko has the same att boost, it will do exactly +53% dmg ( on average); otherwise less, by a computable amount.

I actually doubt the second hit of gekko doesn't get the accuracy boost: SAMs use litterally no accuracy gear during gekko, so if if were the case you wouldn't see many DA. I have no proof of it though.

Related question: Can gekko zanshin?

I have full ikkishoten merits and never saw 35 TP returns on gekko.

[Callisto]

Would a WS Zanshin show up as a full TP return anyways, or as a 2nd hit similar to DA(just +1 TP)? I've only experienced Zanshin as WAR/SAM so I have no idea how you can even differentiate it from DA aside from those Group 2 merits, but the majority of SAMs I know don't have those.

[Byrthnoth]

Even with the merits, it's possible that Iki isn't factored in on WS Zanshin because it counts as a hit past the first so it's set to 1TP.

Even with floored Accuracy, you would expect a 3.4% DA land-rate for a SAM with 17% Double Attack, and even with no Acc through gear it would be surprising if SAM was suddenly on the Acc floor. So landing DA sometimes without the Accuracy bonus wouldn't be amazing, and if my guestimations are correct 5-10% of the time wouldn't be outlandish for merit/Limbus/Dynamis mobs. You have to drop 150 Acc to go from 95 to 20% Accuracy.

Edit: I should note that I mentioned the 150 Acc thing because people are bad at estimating what their Acc would be naked. It would be very difficult to intentionally give yourself -150 Acc going from TP to WS gear, and I'm honestly not sure it's possible. You probably lose about 45-50 Acc going from TP to WS gear, which only knocks you down to ~70% and should still give you a ~10% successful DA rate assuming you're starting with 17%.

[Fottiti]

Is that something that can even be parsed?

Would be easy to test but using Sam for the tests would make it harder than it needs to be unless you aren't prepared to allow the assumption that ground strike or steel cyclone work in the same way. If you used war and don't sub sam it would be very easy.

[Callisto]

In that case, as far as the acc boost I'd definitely guess that it doesn't get the acc boost. I've missed a pretty whopping amount of 2nd hits on Steel Cyclone when forcing DA via Warrior's Charge.

[BerenTebogo]

In that case, as far as the acc boost I'd definitely guess that it doesn't get the acc boost. I've missed a pretty whopping amount of 2nd hits on Steel Cyclone when forcing DA via Warrior's Charge.

This^

[Darkmagi]

For the sake of my stupid friend, does anyone have the exact math on how much damage /drg will add over /mnk for kclub drk zerging? Thanks BG

[Thorny]

For the sake of my stupid friend, does anyone have the exact math on how much damage /drg will add over /mnk for kclub drk zerging? Thanks BG

over 9000

[xerodok]

For the sake of my stupid friend, does anyone have the exact math on how much damage /drg will add over /mnk for kclub drk zerging? Thanks BG

In most situations, I would say MNK sub is better if you have a Kraken Club.

If you are limited to a Ridill/Merc Kris, /DRG.

[Thorny]

In most situations, I would say MNK sub is better if you have a Kraken Club.

If you are limited to a Ridill/Merc Kris, /DRG.

I think you should kill yourself.

43.3% magic haste
5% turban
3% gloves, 3% legs, 3% feet(homam)
4% swift
1% blitz
=19% haste without shinies

total of 62.3% haste
adding earring makes it 67.3% haste, shield makes it 68.3%(but won't include shield because it's fucking impossible to find)

now, 32.7 goes into 37.7 1.152 times, meaning you get +15.2% damage out of the earring alone

31.7 goes into 37.7 1.189 times, meaning you get +18.9% damage out of the earring+shield

if you have 1500 hp, you'd need to gain 228 hp to have it outdo earring, and 283.5 to have it outdo earring+shield

take out intruder earring(40), won't always be active but meh, and you need 188 hp to have /mnk outdo /drg with earring alone, 243.5 with earring+shield

for shield you lose januwiyah+1, so 213.5

/mnk gives about 80 hp, it's entirely impossible for any near-adequately geared drk to benefit more from /mnk than /drg

[Raen Ryong]

I think you should kill yourself.

YOU ARE SO MEAN

[Marcicus]

In that case, as far as the acc boost I'd definitely guess that it doesn't get the acc boost. I've missed a pretty whopping amount of 2nd hits on Steel Cyclone when forcing DA via Warrior's Charge.

Makes me mad when I get all buffed up, pop a Warrior's Charge and miss the second hit. qq

So it is a good assumption to make that with a WAR and no SAM in pt, HQ Fighter's should win out, a SAM and no WAR HQ Samurai roll should win out?

What if we're dealing with WAR+SAM?

[Shinryuu]

(but won't include shield because it's fucking impossible to find)

HA HA LOSER