What's Better?

[BerenTebogo]

Depends what you're fighting. Birds you can do DEX, when I played though for the most part I use STR/attack when capped ACC.

[pchan]

Can you support your argument that it's retarded at all?
It seems to me that +3 Enmity will outweigh +3 Attack for my purposes as a tanking MNK in Salvage.

Yes if you want to be the only one countering or if you don't want the other tank to grab as much hate as you for some reason, but the point is that foragers is cheaper and better damage.

[Jeryhn]

Understandable, but assuming my co-tank is another MNK, both of us wearing Cerb Mantles is a good idea, no?

[Seedz]

The enmity is close to irrelevant. Go with the superior DD piece.

[HadesWeaponx]

Understandable, but assuming my co-tank is another MNK, both of us wearing Cerb Mantles is a good idea, no?

MNKs really have no problems holding hate unless your support does pretty retarded shit early on / you have 2H DDs with you (which should have some sort of damage mitigation anyway so it doesn't matter). If you're worried about one monk out-tanking the other because of an lolcerb mantle, make both use forager's! It's the better choice... you can trust me!

[pchan]

Understandable, but assuming my co-tank is another MNK, both of us wearing Cerb Mantles is a good idea, no?

Technically it doesn't help if you have equal enmity. The debate hades sainti / destroyers is different because it offer subtle blow and evasion. Unless you own cerb+1 I'll suggest you to sell NQ to buy the HQ.

[Talint]

Also, in my strictly anecdotal experience, using KJ on anything with higher than average DEF is a terrible idea.

I use RR about 95% of the time, the remaining 5% being usually 2% MT 2% SC 1% KJ

Hold on, are we back to saying RR > KJ again? I thought it was something like RR for Colibri and where you can get a good crit hit rate, KJ for everything else?

[BerenTebogo]

Hold on, are we back to saying RR > KJ again? I thought it was something like RR for Colibri and where you can get a good crit hit rate, KJ for everything else?

Can do whatever you like really. KJ works well for colibri with good buffs, but I get better results out of RR all the time for Ein, Dynamis (especially xarc or tav if I don't have a COR and just have pizza + double marches) and random other stuff.

RR is consistent, has higher ACC over KJ usually (because of the gear choices you're using, DEX gear vs stuff like alkys for KJ) and the crits are a nice bonus on top.

Edit: For Colibri I will only use KJ if both agg and zerk are up. Since I have 5 zerk 5 DA merits my timers are uneven so the frequency heavily favors RR. My KJ set that needs to compensate for the 25 ACC w/ meat drops far too much STR for it to beat RR. AGG up with zerk it definitely wins on colibri though.

[Talint]

Can do whatever you like really. KJ works well for colibri with good buffs, but I get better results out of RR all the time for Ein, Dynamis (especially xarc or tav if I don't have a COR and just have pizza + double marches) and random other stuff.

RR is consistent, has higher ACC over KJ usually (because of the gear choices you're using, DEX gear vs stuff like alkys for KJ) and the crits are a nice bonus on top.

Edit: For Colibri I will only use KJ if both agg and zerk are up. Since I have 5 zerk 5 DA merits my timers are uneven so the frequency heavily favors RR. My KJ set that needs to compensate for the 25 ACC w/ meat drops far too much STR for it to beat RR. AGG up with zerk it definitely wins on colibri though.

Interesting. Actually, I haven't even touched RR since I got my adaberk and WAR stone. Might make for an interesting experiment. Thanks!

[Khalil]

Interesting. Actually, I haven't even touched RR since I got my adaberk and WAR stone. Might make for an interesting experiment. Thanks!

It should definitely be used on G. Colibris. I haven't really tried KJ yet on them but I should since I'm at the atk cap >_>

[Callisto]

Edit: For Colibri I will only use KJ if both agg and zerk are up. Since I have 5 zerk 5 DA merits my timers are uneven so the frequency heavily favors RR. My KJ set that needs to compensate for the 25 ACC w/ meat drops far too much STR for it to beat RR. AGG up with zerk it definitely wins on colibri though.

This, I should have specified earlier that I meant both active at the same time(I have even timers so I made a crappy assumption that Berserk = Berggressor), Agg up is what allows you to put on the boom-boom gear that can make KJ overtake RR.

[Kirschy]

Can you support your argument that it's retarded at all?
It seems to me that +3 Enmity will outweigh +3 Attack for my purposes as a tanking MNK in Salvage.

Lets assume the MNK has no enmity merits, and is wearing no +enmity gear. Every time you do damage, you'll gain +3% enmity.

(Let's assume that salvage mobs are level 80. A few levels above or below doesn't realli change the math.)

If the MNK does 100 damage per hit:
Base: 145 CE, 436 VE
Cerb+1: 149 CE, 449 VE

If the MNK does 103 damage per hit:
Base: 149 CE, 449 VE

The point I'm trying to make here, is that the +3 enmity increase from cerb+1 is equal to 3 damage increase at ~100 per fist.

This number gets lower as you have more base enmity. Let's say your MNK has +4 enmity merits, and is using Usu Feet. (+9 enmity total). The increase is only (1.12/1.09 = 2.75%)

Yes, it's been forever since I've used MNK in salvage, and I know their damage numbers vary a lot, so the above example won't hold exactly true. But the point still stands that increasing your damage by a minor % also increases your enmity+.

That example also just isolates the case. Let's look at the other variables:
Everytime a mob hits you, and you blink it off: -25 CE
Everytime a mob hits you with enfeeble magic: -80 CE
Everytime you take damage you lose enmity in relation to your HP. (Higher the HP, the less damage lost.) If you have 1500 HP, you lose 1.2 enmity for each point of damage taken. If you take 50 damage, you lose 60 CE. If you take 200 damage, you lose 240 CE.
The first aggro on a mob is something like 200 CE and 900 VE.

Last of all, damage varies by a decent amount every hit. Hitting the lower bound of your damage variance means you'll be generating less enmity. Having your partner score a crit means they'll be way above your CE/VE for a bit. Engage time and WSs are going to skew this even further.

Using a cerb mantle to keep hate over other DD isn't going to do anything majority of the time. Using a forg mantle will increase your damage slightly and thus increase your enmity. Unless the cerb mantle is free or super cheap, use a forg~

[Jeryhn]

Now that was the kinda stuff I was looking for, thanks. ^-')b

[Jb1210a]

First BLM AF+1 upgrade, which would get more usage (mileage); Wizard's Gloves +1 or Wizard's Coat +1?

[jimbobsonofgod]

First BLM AF+1 upgrade, which would get more usage (mileage); Wizard's Gloves +1 or Wizard's Coat +1?

Head 1 Int 5 MP +1 HMP
Body 20 MP +2 enfeebling skill +5 HMP -2 enmity
Hands +3 int +5 MP -1 enmity.

body > hands > head in terms of what does most for your coins.
But i'd say AF+1 hands is more useful.

I personally Did hands > head > body > legs.

Although come to think of it, sometimes you'll be nuking in morrigans over AF+1, But you'll always be sleeping in AFII body ....

I guess if you don't have 8/8 Elemental and don't plan on it i'd do gloves
If not I'd do body.

[Jb1210a]

Yeah, I'm 8/8 elemental, great point about always sleeping in AF+1 body, thanks for helping me make my decision!

[RyaWHM]

for lolMeleeWHM:

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...compare001.gif

Who wins? I MUST KNOW!

- 70 STR during TP right now so it doesn't add any attack
- 387 accuracy during TP with bellicose
- 1141hp -> 1160hp says that rainbow clearly wins
- yay accuracy?

EDIT: I had TP in mind but looking at it again, I guess it might be good for hexa? or boon? or rand? I dunno? (seems close!) -- currently using Bellicose@TP/Hexa, Aslan@Boon/Rand

[Raen Ryong]

Just eyeballing it since I'm tired and going to bed so don't take this too literally if someone takes apart my post, but 6atk > 1str 2dex unless you are getting that fSTR point where they become ~equal. This changes if you have huge ass Attack buffs but I'm guessing as a WHM, not happening much!

Basically, I'd just use the Bellicose and be subjected to NQ Amemet first impressions forever

[dantes]

Entertain me on this. Mirke ATK+10/ACC+10 augments. Is it better than Shura?

I'm in the obvious Shura camp but this clueless MNK keeps on telling me someone parsed it as being better I just want to prove him wrong. He also made the statement "mirke is a side grade to usukane body also".

I don't logistically see how 5str 5dex is better than +10atk for a heavy DOT job. Assuming you hit the proper caps that is.

For MNK that is...

[Thorny]

Entertain me on this. Mirke ATK+10/ACC+10 augments. Is it better than Shura?

I'm in the obvious Shura camp but this clueless MNK keeps on telling me someone parsed it as being better I just want to prove him wrong.

For MNK that is...

Mirke is better, as is Enkidu Harness in the majority of situations.