What's Better?

**Raen Ryong** · 2010-01-14 09:07

Well, 5 Base D on DRK is like 5.00%~ DoT damage and ~3.57% on WS.

12 less delay is a 2.40% DoT and WS frequency advantage for Perdu, and 14 Attack is hard to quantify due to level correction but typically in the region of ~3-3.5% DoT/WS damage.

Perdu should win on both counts here. Only when hyperbuffed will Death+1 win (the Attack has to be severely diminished).

Note if the Death+1 uses Sword Strap and retains 6hit (which it can), the difference from the Pole Grip is still enough to keep Perdu in the lead.

**Clack** · 2010-01-14 09:40

I figured the uses for death scythe +1 were minimal, but on average would you say its behind perdu by less then 1% in overall damage? And thanks for all the quick responses and help!

**Nevex** · 2010-01-14 09:44

Originally Posted by Dathus

Starting to really work on some of my RDM gear sets since I'm tired of looking at older pieces I stopped using for some reason or another.

Fast Cast gear

Spoiler: show

Nashira hands or Dusk hands? Nashira body good for what(outside obvious Drain/Aspir/Stun)? Any other specific swaps/help for the macros?

Campaign/FoV Melee set

Spoiler: show

Just for casual gear, any real advice? Working on doing JoFort for the Sword/Gaxe torque as I intend on leveling WAR next due to gear carrying over from DRG.

Nashira Body for Chainstun, Drain, Aspir and Bio 2/3 if that brings you to 211 Dark Magic skill.
Dusk hands are better than Nashira.

My RDM melee gear is just a bunch of PDT-/haste gear, with little to no accuracy added (capped sword merits though; acc gear is just Suppanomimi, Morrigan's Robe and Swift Belt). If I have accuracy issues with that and Composure then it's not something RDM should be meleeing to begin with. This is assuming you solo Campaign mobs though, else PDT- gear isn't needed.
FoV mobs have virtually no evasion since they're EM at most if I'm not wrong, so accuracy isn't an issue there either.

Even though I do have a lot of real melee gear for my RDM I have no room to carry that, but I've never felt the need for it.

**Callisto** · 2010-01-14 09:55

I gear pretty much entirely for Haste to TP in and eat food if I'm actually fighting something that warrants more acc, which is relatively rare. As far as actually keeping a melee set, I just moved mine to my satchel that way if I'm going to be meleeing I can dump my staves/grips/clubs in there in exchange for the melee set.

**requim** · 2010-01-14 10:04

Augment your death scythe +1 and it could get http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots.php?id=23754

99/502 > 93/501!

Death+1 with sword strap is slightly faster than Perdu while still maintaining a 5 hit so it really comes down to the 4~5% more base damage will out do the accuracy and attack on perdu (+w/e grip).

Were you brave enough to augment it to get damage, -delay, or str/dex it could easily be full timed anywhere IMO. Either way I don't expect the difference to be greater than ~3% eye balling it. If you had death+1 already and were low on IS, could get something besides perdu and not really suffer, if you had both just swap depending on whether you think you have capped accuracy or plan to WS back to back to back (like SV einherjar bosses).

**KSDI** · 2010-01-14 10:06

Originally Posted by Cooleko

Assuming Asuran Fists, I firmly believe its only the first of 8 hits so ancient torque would win over gorget

What are you basing this on?

**Celebrindor** · 2010-01-14 10:06

Dathus,

Outside of the nashira gear you mention in your melee set, we've got similar setups. I use Goliard Saio for TPing, and Assault Jerkin for WS (obviously are better choices there, but no morrigans yet).

I use either Tiphia Sting, Lamian Kayan, or Bibiki Seashell for my ranged slot. One INT really just isn't doing much. I find myself using the Kayan very little- 90% of the time its tiphia sting or seashell (the intimidation factor on aquans is actually pretty damn big). Haven't gotten a smart grenade yet, which is a choice as well.

Leg slot....like I said I don't have nashira. I use Duelist's Tights. In melee solo situations, I do honestly notice a difference on ice spikes procs with them on, which mitigates a good deal of damage. I'd be hard pressed not to use nashira though, so dunno.

-PDT gear: I use umbra, genbu's shield, and jelly ring pretty much 100% of the time on facetanking anything upper EM and higher. Not having to cast buffs as much does more for your DoT than almost piece of gear.

Earrings: on a related note, been contemplating a setup of suppa/hollow over suppa/brutal. The extra +3dmg on enspells really would add up- much more than a slight boost to double attack with RDM's low base dmg weapons. And I've always figured "ask a DD if they'd want an earring with +2 DEX, +3 accuracy, and a guaranteed 3 extra damage per swing of a one-handed weapon". Don't know how accurate that is, any thoughts?

Suppa/Hollow vs. Suppa/Brutal for specifically RDM soloing?

**Callisto** · 2010-01-14 10:15

Believe Hollow/Brutal would be the way to go, same acc as Suppa and I don't think 5 atk is guaranteed to add 3 dmg/swing like Hollow is.

**Raen Ryong** · 2010-01-14 10:18

Originally Posted by requim

Normally you have death+1 being ~5% slower for 5% more damage, but offering no other bonuses and not meeting a 5 hit build so in any situation where you're benefiting from the accuracy I would expect perdu to win. Were you brave enough to augment it to get damage, -delay, or str/dex it could easily be full timed anywhere IMO.

Death NQ is about 5%~ slower

Death HQ is only 2.4% ish.

I don't think DMG or STR would be enough to push it ahead because DRK has such high base D anyway that adding more doesn't yield that much benefit. -delay, +accuracy and maybe large enough +dex are definitely contenders though.

As for how much Perdu is ahead: if you are making use of that accuracy for Blitz/Turban/Forager's/better food, it can be up to 5~8% better (I'm being VERY approximate here, don't take it for granite); if the accuracy between both is constant than you're looking at 1~3%.

**requim** · 2010-01-14 10:32

When /nin, Suppa/hollow if you're Joy/Justice since ~5 acc 5atk and faster swings would out do brutal's 5% DA rate. Hollow because +3 enspell damage is a lot to be adding to tier 1s on top of the accuracy alone is significant.

If you're only using joy, well...suppa/hollow anyways since we showed on the previous page brutal is only giving you below a 2% return and anything giving you more than just 3 accuracy wins most of the time.

Death NQ is about 5%~ slower Death HQ is only 2.4% ish.

Ya I totally spaced and started thinking about 5 hit builds and such. HQ with sword strap is actually faster than Perdu though! Honestly I don't see 5 accuracy being big enough alone to let you swap food and blitz ring, so you're exaggerating a bit. 98/93 is over a 5% increase in base damage though so you're really comparing:

98/497 to 93/501 5acc 14atk 2% DA

which I would still say Death's DPS more than trumps DA and the attack easily so it only comes down to the accuracy

Also noob question, Death+1's drain proc isn't common or high enough to mention right?

**Celebrindor** · 2010-01-14 10:32

..hadn't thought about dropping the suppa.....ruh roh possible incoming DM. ^^

**requim** · 2010-01-14 10:43

Unless you're a drk or a sam main, suppa is the most useful earring since you can still use it on nin, thf, bst, blu, pld, rdm, cor, and dnc.

If all you had was rdm and blm and didn't do very much meleeing abyssal would be more useful since it frees up your int earring slot and gives you dark skill.

Bushi for non-sams just means you're too poor to buy a triumph earring.

**mdkuser** · 2010-01-14 10:44

the way I see it a full merited drk will not have any issue with caping acc with bitz ring and death+1/sword strap. Myself, I am no merited, I reach ~385 pre food with this set up. add about 40 with pizza+1 and thats already a lot. On merits I'd use the perdu though ( cant use pizza, or pizza barely enough), or just not come drk lol.

**Kidnoftle** · 2010-01-14 12:19

Originally Posted by KSDI

What are you basing this on?

I firmly believe I'd like to know this as well.

**Raen Ryong** · 2010-01-14 12:35

Originally Posted by requim

HQ with sword strap is actually faster than Perdu though!

True; the delay difference accounts for less than a % in terms of overall damage though. Still there, but still.

Honestly I don't see 5 accuracy being big enough alone to let you swap food and blitz ring, so you're exaggerating a bit.

Oh, it obviously won't let you swap both - but one or the other is fairly likely. On a high accuracy DD like DRK, 5acc can very literally make Red Curry > Pizza or vice versa.

98/93 is over a 5% increase in base damage though

Make sure you add fSTR too, which is naturally high on DRK

also during WS it becomes a lot less significant whereas Attack relatively holds its value (decreases slightly assuming you WS in more Attack than your TP gear, but still - not as much a decrease as the STR/DMG is).

**requim** · 2010-01-14 13:10

Make sure you add fSTR too, which is naturally high on DRK also during WS it becomes a lot less significant whereas Attack relatively holds its value (decreases slightly assuming you WS in more Attack than your TP gear, but still - not as much a decrease as the STR/DMG is).

I had forgotten about fstr like a goober, though it's still ~5% since you can't really expect more than what, 20 base damage from fstr? So it's still going to be over a 4% on anything of importance.

Also is it that base damage matters less than attack or just that stacking strength for fstr has less returns than attack? Pretty sure 5 base damage should be noticeable on WS, at least more potent for damage than 14atk. I think you're confusing stacking str vs atk since base damage is like 4 times as awesome as strength.

**Raen Ryong** · 2010-01-14 13:18

It's cause you have WSC added to base damage as well during WS, so your relative increase is less (for instance, 1DMG on a 99 => 100 BD weapon is exactly a 1% increase in damage. However, if you have a WSC of 40 during WS say (very reasonable), this increase is now 1/140 = 0.7%).

Since Attack is still the same old constant multiplier, its returns don't decrease anywhere near as much (unless your WS Attack is much higher than your TP Attack).

5D should beat 14attack for Guillo always but not by a huge deal unless you're buffed out of the ass (talking less than a 1%~ difference, whereas Perdu has the WS frequency advantage, Sword Strap or no Sword Strap).

**Callisto** · 2010-01-14 13:32

I suppose that fits into what I was trying to improve as well, my Death Blossom set...I had tried going the Attack+ route and didn't really see favorable results, since Joyeuse has a relatively low base D/weapon rank I'd likely be better off adding STR/MND?

I currently use:

Optical/Thunder/Hollow/Brutal
Morri/Morri/Lava's/Kusha's
Cuch/Potent/Dusk/Rutters

I'm trying to track down a cheap pair of Ogre+1 feet, I also need to pick up a Forager's at some point since for the things I'd be fighting the rings are probably overdoing Acc, but Flame Rings seem counter-productive due to the MND-(don't Rajas me, req!).

Not really sure what to use in Head/Legs though, don't really want to deal with trying for Morri Head and the Legs are stingy as hell so far, so I'm not sure what else to aim for in the meantime.

**requim** · 2010-01-14 16:40

Rajas me, req!

If you insist.

Ogre Mask has a sizable chunk of attack on it which if you had L/K on you could probably drop ohat depending on your accuracy.

Virtuoso belt is an awesome belt if you ever get one that you could also use against evasive mobs. Against weaker mobs, especially if you're using ohat and l/k rings you could also swift to warwolf belt.

The set can greatly vary depending on what you're fighting since rdm has limited gear/skill so against T+ you'll prolly be cruising in obscene amounts of accuracy, whereas campaign you could prolly sport ogre hat, warwolf, etc. Forager's in general is awesome, especially when you augment it!

**Andradi** · 2010-01-14 18:03

Would an Aqua ring beat a 5 str ring (the one without mind down) for DB?

Also, Morrigan's slops if you have them (?) might beat out the attack on dusk through mods and such.

Thread: What's Better?

Thread Tools

Similar Threads

What's Better?

What's Better?

What's Better?

What's Better?

Latest Threads

Up & Coming Threads

Hottest Threads