What's Better?

[Nishida]

Hmmm, a bit confused about how you gonna get that item if you are not spending any gil. I suppose you are going to work towards it at the moment?

IMO,it is quite hard to tell between those items you listed. What i would suggest is you take into account the rest of your gear. Like for example, calculate your total acc without taking into account of your body for sam. If you happen to have other decked out acc gear, then what you actually gain from haub+1 is only atk/str..etc
Witch sash is pretty good for that extra macc but if your other gear are lackluster, then that macc is just covering up for your other gear. And also what you do with your rdm that requires those extra macc.

Edit: If someone is going to give you one of those items, then it is AT hands down.

Basically I plan to ask for either the AT that dropped from SW last night, or a Haub+1 / Witch Sash bank reward from my LS.

[Windfoxster]

Basically I plan to ask for either the AT that dropped from SW last night, or a Haub+1 / Witch Sash bank reward from my LS.

Then it is AT!!! You are now talking about the potential gil gain... ;x
Get AT, sell your peacock charm, top up a few more gil from your own pocket and get a haub+1.

[Nemesio]

For bird camp, when I can't /war, /drg or /nin? Haven't had the chance to /drg to anything yet, makes me pissed I spent 500k on earring XD. So I am not sure how the hate is so that's why I'm here.

[Nishida]

Then it is AT!!! You are now talking about the potential gil gain... ;x
Get AT, sell your peacock charm, top up a few more gil from your own pocket and get a haub+1.

Nah, the PCC was a bank reward..so if I got AT..according to how we do things..I'd be giving the PCC back. ;P

[Xno Kappa]

Wow, bravo on having an LS that actually uses a bank for legitimate purposes.

[Windfoxster]

Nah, the PCC was a bank reward..so if I got AT..according to how we do things..I'd be giving the PCC back. ;P

Well, still gonna suggest AT, simply because it takes longer to work towards an AT than the other gear. But if you are seriously talking about which is better upgrade, then you should follow what i posted a few posts up. Bank rewards -> take the most expensive!

[mdkuser]

For bird camp, when I can't /war, /drg or /nin? Haven't had the chance to /drg to anything yet, makes me pissed I spent 500k on earring XD. So I am not sure how the hate is so that's why I'm here.

For SAM? why would you be able to /drg and not /war? /DRG is better than WAR if you make full use of the 4% haste...look:

With 64% haste pre earring ( 19% gear, 15% haste, 20% marches, 10% hasso=64%), the earring increases your damage by (1-0.68 )/(1-0.64)=12.5%.

/War is much less than 10%: +10% DA is 1.17/1.07=+9.3% melee damage. For weaponskill frequency, 6-hit builds average 4.4 rounds till 100TP on average with 17% DA, while it's 4.73 with 7% DA. 4.73/4.4=+7.5% weaponskill damage. For 5 hit builds it's 3.79/3.54=+7% weapons skill damage. berserk will not close the gap.

One you have more than 22% haste pre earring it's not so obvious.

[Windfoxster]

For SAM? why would you be able to /drg and not /war? /DRG is better than WAR if you make full use of the 4% haste...look:

With 64% haste pre earring ( 19% gear, 15% haste, 20% marches, 10% hasso=64%), the earring increases your damage by (1-0.68 )/(1-0.64)=12.5%.

/War is much less than 10%: +10% DA is 1.17/1.07=+9.3% melee damage. For weaponskill frequency, 6-hit builds average 4.4 rounds till 100TP on average with 17% DA, while it's 4.73 with 7% DA. 4.73/4.4=+7.5% weaponskill damage. For 5 hit builds it's 3.79/3.54=+7% weapons skill damage. berserk will not close the gap.

One you have more than 22% haste pre earring it's not so obvious.

Earring is 5%

[mdkuser]

/drg is even better then.

[Dooom]

The only time I can see you being able to /drg but not /war is if you're fighting something where you really do not want to pull hate, and you're not just using /drg for the earring but also for high jump.

While I'm relatively new to the sam75 club, I absolutely love /drg. Aside from the haste benefits as mentioned above, there's jumps too, which make self-SC without Sekkanoki even easier (WS -> Meditate -> jump during ticks -> WS again -> really hard not to make this SC!), and high jump for those times when your face is getting reamed and you can't take the hits for whatever reason (third eye lets you down, mob is too strong or you can't tank it (e.g. JoL), no PDT/MDT set, etc.). I really don't see why more people don't use it over /war, especially for situations where you're using gkt rather than polearm so berserk isn't helping you much at all.

[mdkuser]

/war is good for tanking and that's it; a lot of people think /war is a DD SJ for sam lol. its less than +10% dmg. Hell, sam/nin full time hasso is more dmg than sam/war seiganing.

[Raen Ryong]

/war is a very powerful DD sub for SAM if you're using Polearm!

[Eole]

/war is good for tanking and that's it; a lot of people think /war is a DD SJ for sam lol. its less than +10% dmg. Hell, sam/nin full time hasso is more dmg than sam/war seiganing.

Shadowcasting wasn't taken in account here.

[FailureMidgard]

/war is good for tanking and that's it; a lot of people think /war is a DD SJ for sam lol. its less than +10% dmg. Hell, sam/nin full time hasso is more dmg than sam/war seiganing.

A 30% increase to 35% of your damage 60% of the time is 5.4%. A 9.3% increase to 100% of your damage 100% of the time is 9.3%. A 50% increase to 65% of your damage 9.3% of the time is 3%. 9.3+5.4+3 is a bit over 10, last I checked. Also, Sam/war can still use Hasso (not all the time, but you definitely can in Ein, merits, Salvage, etc.

/war is a very powerful DD sub for SAM if you're using Polearm!

This (or Amano).

Shadowcasting wasn't taken in account here.

This too.


He also didn't account for haste cap, the damage gained by provoke + overwhelm, or, well, anything really. But it fits Pchan's style, so ya.

[mdkuser]

nobody is argueing that sam/nin cannot tank lol. its good for dynamis and stuffs where mobs die in 3 secs.

[FailureMidgard]

nobody is argueing that sam/nin cannot tank lol. its good for dynamis and stuffs where mobs die in 3 secs.

whoosh? He's saying you aren't accounting for all the damage loss /nin from your shadow cast-time...assuming you have hate at all...

[pchan]

A 30% increase to 35% of your damage 60% of the time is 5.4%. A 9.3% increase to 100% of your damage 100% of the time is 9.3%. A 50% increase to 65% of your damage 9.3% of the time is 3%. 9.3+5.4+3 is a bit over 10, last I checked. Also, Sam/war can still use Hasso (not all the time, but you definitely can in Ein, merits, Salvage, etc.



This (or Amano).



This too.


He also didn't account for haste cap, the damage gained by provoke + overwhelm, or, well, anything really. But it fits Pchan's style, so ya.

Overestimating beserk etc. Einherjar is THE place where berserk is made useless. Double bard ? Cor ? dia 3 ? angon ? more ? You have a really cool attack number, but it doesn't let you do awesome WS numbers. Secondly DA does nothing for your WS frequency if it procs on the last hit so you are left with 10% increase in dot and 8% increase in WS which is 10*0.33+8*0.67=8.66% increase globally.

What about berserk ? Does nothing for gekko, with subs, double minuet (110 att), chaos (20%) you get about (400+80+110)*1.2=708 attack.

Let's see the effect on pdif ? Ein mobs are like level 80, average def, let's say 350,. Ratio is capped before level correction at 2.2. 708/(350*0.85)=2.379=> 2.2. You cap. Berserk does nothing.

inbefore tripple bard rotation.

[mdkuser]

you forget double attacks that proc on the weapon skill itself , pchan. for 6 hit builds, 7% - > 17 % DA is about 7.5% increase in frequency only ( due to some DAs not contributing to WS speed nor WS average) and 5% increase for the average WS dmg, so globally is still more than 10% WS damage.

[FailureMidgard]

Overestimating beserk etc. Einherjar is THE place where berserk is made useless. Double bard ? Cor ? dia 3 ? angon ? more ? You have a really cool attack number, but it doesn't let you do awesome WS numbers. Secondly DA does nothing for your WS frequency if it procs on the last hit so you are left with 10% increase in dot and 8% increase in WS which is 10*0.33+8*0.67=8.66% increase globally.

What about berserk ? Does nothing for gekko, with subs, double minuet (110 att), chaos (20%) you get about (400+80+110)*1.2=708 attack.

Let's see the effect on pdif ? Ein mobs are like level 80, average def, let's say 350,. Ratio is capped before level correction at 2.2. 708/(350*0.85)=2.379=> 2.2. You cap. Berserk does nothing.

inbefore tripple bard rotation.

Yes, lets assume that everyone always has 2 bards, a corsair, and dia (I'm unsure how slow you kill things, but our dia uptime is around ~70% at best...people WS before it's up, etc...psst, not referring to WSing with Gekko). Let's use this assumption to make blanket calls on whether or not /war is a decent subjob. Furthermore, you left off DA on WS...still. You also left off the fact that whenever you reach the buff levels you are referring to, POLEARM IS BETTER.

Anyway, it depends on buffs/etc/etc, but dragoon is only going to really win if you assume 2 bards, corsair, dia, dancer, and hasso (or less haste gear), because 2.5% haste and 2 jumps isn't going to beat out /war otherwise.

[pchan]

Yes, lets assume that everyone always has 2 bards, a corsair, and dia (I'm unsure how slow you kill things, but our dia uptime is around ~70% at best...people WS before it's up, etc...psst, not referring to WSing with Gekko).

Is this the time where I ask if berserk's 14% attack boost save you a hit ¿

POLEARM IS BETTER.

I remember when you put my 'gekko is not impressive' in your sig. hahahaha. Also mnk and war better. And Pewp too (soon).