What's Better?

[Karbuncle]

uh.. yea, if you dont like killing things in reasonable amount of time i guess

was thinking, Maximizing Exp in campaign comes from keeping mobs alive as long as possible so that the battles go on (Thus exp cap is raised) and being able to keep yourself alive with cures.


the best way to live as WAR/DNC in campaign is straight TP gain, being able to keep up with curing yourself, the mobs don't rage and the longer they live the more exp you get, i see no problem in drawing out the fight if you're at no risk of being killed.

This Axe does that.

(though the Rune chopper situation is not half bad)

[Benz]

also, Usukane body for asuran? y/n? got 35 tonight and will probably sell osode for a couple ingots if i can get away with using togi/usu body for asuran

[Neosutra]

also, Usukane body for asuran? y/n? got 35 tonight and will probably sell osode for a couple ingots if i can get away with using togi/usu body for asuran

Depends on what you are fighting, but I keep a couple main TP sets. One focuses on when focus is down and/or Im fighting more evasive mobs (culc' mantle, PCC, pure acc rings), the other when focus is up and/or fighting lower evasive mobs (Augmented Foragers, Rajas, Faith, etc). I usually eat meat in salvage and move to more acc based set when focus is down (on mobs that need it).

Usukane beats everything for AF (except PW body), unless you are capped on acc. Even if you are near acc cap, I'd still use Usu body and swap other peices out, as 16 acc in one spot is just too nice.

Dont ever AF in Osode >.>.

[pchan]

Usukane beats everything for AF (except PW body), unless you are capped on acc. Even if you are near acc cap, I'd still use Usu body and swap other peices out, as 16 acc in one spot is just too nice.

Dont ever AF in Osode >.>.

1) Usukane body is better than Hachiryiu body for AF, except that you never need that much accuracy.


Math :

level 82 mobs
Dia3,330 DEF, 450 att in TP gear (full usu)
BOOST
110 STR 75 VIT in your asuran fists set
450 attack in AF set before body
80% acc before body
assume gorget for AF


Hachiryu : +20 acc +20 att

cratio=min( (450+20)*1.1875/( 330*0.85) , 2.0) - 7*0.05 =1.64
pdif average : 1.58 (old formulae)

weapons'skill D with, say, destroyers and 8 fstr before body

D= 53 + 8 + 0.83*( 0.10*75+0.10*110)=76.35 => 76 DMG

first hit has no acc bonus, so the overall damage is

[1.1*76*0.95+7*76*(0.80+0.10)]*1.58=881.98 damage average with hachiryu body

Usukane : 16 acc 4 att 2 fstr

cratio=min( (450+4)*1.1875/( 330*0.85) , 2.0) - 7*0.05 =1.57
pdif average : 1.56
D= 53 + 10 + 0.83*( 0.10*75+0.10*118 )=79.01=> 79

[1.1*79*0.95+7*79*(0.80+0.08 )]*1.56=887.94 damage average with usukane body


Now if you have chaos's roll, the difference is greater because cratio will be capped. Of course you can always assume that usu body doesn't give you one more wsc if it makes you feel wet.


2) osode is fine, as long as you are not fstr capped and get 2D from wsc. Typical situation : capped accuracy. When are you getting capped acc ? Always. All you got to do is check your STR/VIT to see if floor( 0.83*floor( 0.10*STR+0.10*VIT) ) is gaining 2 wsc between osode and no osode and know if you are fstr capped.

[Beave]

From personal experience I'd say Paralyze II is inherently more potent, but not by very much. Considering deleting my Paralyze II merit - it's just too expensive MP-wise to bother using over Paralyze in 99% of situations. In fact the only time I ever use it is on Rapido, really.

Purely eyeballing, because I really don't give a shit to test it, para 2 proc'd just as randomly as para 1, for about six times the mp cost. I only ever had 2 merits at the most in it, so maybe the potency becomes more noticeable with 4/5 or 5/5 merits...

To be honest I'd say the best way to do rdm group 2 is:

4/5 Phalanx II: Do salvage, suck less.
5/5 Slow II: Slow shit down so any job /nin can tank
1/5 Dia III: Zerg shit

[Neosutra]

1) Usukane body is better than Hachiryiu body for AF, except that you never need that much accuracy.


Math :

level 82 mobs
Dia3,330 DEF, 450 att in TP gear (full usu)
BOOST
110 STR 75 VIT in your asuran fists set
450 attack in AF set before body
80% acc before body
assume gorget for AF


Hachiryu : +20 acc +20 att

cratio=min( (450+20)*1.1875/( 330*0.85) , 2.0) - 7*0.05 =1.64
pdif average : 1.58 (old formulae)

weapons'skill D with, say, destroyers and 8 fstr before body

D= 53 + 8 + 0.83*( 0.10*75+0.10*110)=76.35 => 76 DMG

first hit has no acc bonus, so the overall damage is

[1.1*76*0.95+7*76*(0.80+0.10)]*1.58=881.98 damage average with hachiryu body

Usukane : 16 acc 4 att 2 fstr

cratio=min( (450+4)*1.1875/( 330*0.85) , 2.0) - 7*0.05 =1.57
pdif average : 1.56
D= 53 + 10 + 0.83*( 0.10*75+0.10*118 )=79.01=> 79

[1.1*79*0.95+7*79*(0.80+0.08 )]*1.56=887.94 damage average with usukane body


Now if you have chaos's roll, the difference is greater because cratio will be capped. Of course you can always assume that usu body doesn't give you one more wsc if it makes you feel wet.


2) osode is fine, as long as you are not fstr capped and get 2D from wsc. Typical situation : capped accuracy. When are you getting capped acc ? Always. All you got to do is check your STR/VIT to see if floor( 0.83*floor( 0.10*STR+0.10*VIT) ) is gaining 2 wsc between osode and no osode and know if you are fstr capped.

Except you arent taking into account varying mob levels, food, and different evasions.

[pchan]

Except you arent taking into account varying mob levels, food, and different evasions.

Then show us what kind of eva/level/food would make hachiryu win and osode lose. I took level 82 mobs which is merit level, 450 att assumption refers to pizza or kabobs, 80% accuracy on WS before body refers to very evasive mobs (lurkers). Anything lower : osode anything higher : doesn't exists.

[Cream Soda]

Depends on what you are fighting, but I keep a couple main TP sets. One focuses on when focus is down and/or Im fighting more evasive mobs (culc' mantle, PCC, pure acc rings), the other when focus is up and/or fighting lower evasive mobs (Augmented Foragers, Rajas, Faith, etc). I usually eat meat in salvage and move to more acc based set when focus is down (on mobs that need it).

Usukane beats everything for AF (except PW body), unless you are capped on acc. Even if you are near acc cap, I'd still use Usu body and swap other peices out, as 16 acc in one spot is just too nice.

Dont ever AF in Osode >.>.

Between pizza and +25 acc on my ws helm, I only ever use usu body for asuran on lurkers >.>

[Benz]

so, theres mixed feelings, i see. i've yet to get MKD hat, its high on my list of things to do... speaking of, i realize acc+25 att +5 is the best, but is the agi +4 wsd+2% viable? just so it could be good for rng too...
back to the AF question, i'm more concerned about salvage numbers than anything else, so give it to me straight; ow much acc do i need to have for TP and AF on chariots?

[Argettio]

so, theres mixed feelings, i see. i've yet to get MKD hat, its high on my list of things to do... speaking of, i realize acc+25 att +5 is the best, but is the agi +4 wsd+2% viable? just so it could be good for rng too...
back to the AF question, i'm more concerned about salvage numbers than anything else, so give it to me straight; ow much acc do i need to have for TP and AF on chariots?

410 for all except AR.
430 for AR.

Approx

[Martinius]

hello, recently god a cuchelain's mantle, and have a few questions about its use on monk, mainly for salvage. i use pizza +1, full h2h merits, and gear is as follows:
tp-
destroyers/--/--/astrolabe
turban/faith(or pcc)/ merman's/brutal
togi/bando's/rajas/uthalams
cuchelain's/BB/byakko/fuma's

WS:
destroyers/--/--/astrolabe
shura/faith(or pcc)/ merman's/ethereal
osode/bando's/rajas/uthalams
cuchelain's/BB/shura/denali

should I asuran in shura/amemet+1? side note, faith or pcc? do i need to camp a virtuoso belt? side side note, do i need to get hades sainti for chariots? generally any critique welcome

for starters, i'd pick up a flame gorget for AF. i also prefer using melee gloves (until i get usu hands) for chariots and gears. i do use hades sainti for all chariots and most gears (i'll normally stick w/ destroyers in ssr). i find that the subtle blow (and max your penance, it's amazing) helps significantly. you don't need hades sainti, as they're not game-breaking or anything, but the combination of acc/evasion/subtle blow are really nice, and the enmity makes for a nice bonus on stuff like LAC after getting jacked, or if homing missile gets off on LBC.

[noodles355]

Rdm nukes: Mahatma or Shadow rews? (No Morrigan, working on other drops in salvage atm).

[Shinryuu]

WS gorget for Asuran? Don't think so Tim.

[Cream Soda]

WS gorget for Asuran? Don't think so Tim.

? what else would you suggest? I'd say it is situationally the bets

Acc capped: Faith Torque
Acc uncapped: gorget. Mnk isn't 2hand, only gets 1 more acc from ancient torque than does from gorget. 2% increase to WS dmg > .5% hitrate.

Your hitrate would have to be less than 25% for 1 acc to equate to more than 2% increase.

Edit:
Also keeping in mind that's when you land all 8 hits, ftp 8.0 goes to 8.1 any time you land less than 8 hits, you gain even more from gorget.

[Shinryuu]

Edit:
Also keeping in mind that's when you land all 8 hits, ftp 8.0 goes to 8.1 any time you land less than 8 hits, you gain even more from gorget.

This only holds true when the first hit is more accurate than the others. If you have capped WS ACC which you should the increase you're talking about is perfectly offset by the 5% chance of missing the first hit, I think.

I guess you're right it's situationally the best. Faith and a STR+4 neck will beat it if the ACC isn't an issue (Faith when you need <7 ACC to cap preneck, STR if ACC is capped).

[Cream Soda]

Also depends on target. If i have enough acc to use none on neck, I'm probably using my str build anyways, and as we all know, fstr caps rather early for mnk.

[Dathus]

Last I asked about Death Blossom WS set I was told hands should be Goliard. Currently using Pallas as I had'em laying around on a mule. Should I change Pallas to Morrigan's cuffs or leave as is with Pallas for WS onry?

Joyeuse/Sentinel's/x/RSE Satchet
Voyager's/Gorget/Brutal/Triumph
Nashmira/?/Flame/Rajas
Foragers/Warwolf/Paluwhan/Rutters

No other Goliard pieces, or Morrigan's atm. Still working on getting some to put out.

[Demosthenes11]

Rdm nukes: Mahatma or Shadow rews? (No Morrigan, working on other drops in salvage atm).

some of you should NOT be playing rdm if you can't figure this shit out.
mahatma 99% of the time

[mdkuser]

WS gorget for Asuran? Don't think so Tim.

you guys discussion about gorget's accuracy is a bit silly, i cant think of a situation where those 3-4 accuracy make a difference. The question you should ask is : will those 7 attack be usefull?

Look. My normal tp gear with pizza has 450 attack. my normal asuran fist has 500 attack without neck. if I boosts its at ~600. Do you really think i need more attack after that? I dont think so, unless the mob isnt diaII'd and is relatively strong. At least its obvious that the moment you have cor or minuet, you are attack-caped during AF so gorget is better.

[Vodou]

1) Usukane body is better than Hachiryiu body for AF, except that you never need that much accuracy.


Math :

level 82 mobs
Dia3,330 DEF, 450 att in TP gear (full usu)
BOOST
110 STR 75 VIT in your asuran fists set
450 attack in AF set before body
80% acc before body
assume gorget for AF


Hachiryu : +20 acc +20 att

cratio=min( (450+20)*1.1875/( 330*0.85) , 2.0) - 7*0.05 =1.64
pdif average : 1.58 (old formulae)

weapons'skill D with, say, destroyers and 8 fstr before body

D= 53 + 8 + 0.83*( 0.10*75+0.10*110)=76.35 => 76 DMG

first hit has no acc bonus, so the overall damage is

[1.1*76*0.95+7*76*(0.80+0.10)]*1.58=881.98 damage average with hachiryu body

Usukane : 16 acc 4 att 2 fstr

cratio=min( (450+4)*1.1875/( 330*0.85) , 2.0) - 7*0.05 =1.57
pdif average : 1.56
D= 53 + 10 + 0.83*( 0.10*75+0.10*118 )=79.01=> 79

[1.1*79*0.95+7*79*(0.80+0.08 )]*1.56=887.94 damage average with usukane body


Now if you have chaos's roll, the difference is greater because cratio will be capped. Of course you can always assume that usu body doesn't give you one more wsc if it makes you feel wet.


2) osode is fine, as long as you are not fstr capped and get 2D from wsc. Typical situation : capped accuracy. When are you getting capped acc ? Always. All you got to do is check your STR/VIT to see if floor( 0.83*floor( 0.10*STR+0.10*VIT) ) is gaining 2 wsc between osode and no osode and know if you are fstr capped.

So Usu > hachi when cratio is capped? (based on the new findings, I imagine). Different if cratio is uncapped, no? Or am I not reading your math properly?