What's Better?

[Raen Ryong]

Just use the WSC formula:

floor[floor(0.25 * your_STR + 0.25 * your_MND) * 0.83]

In words: take 25% of your STR and 25% of your MND and add them together. Chop off the decimals (no rounding). Multiply the result by 0.83 (at level 75). Chop off the decimals (no rounding).

Result is independent of target.

EDIT: Just for clarity, this method is only 100% accurate if you are using it to check what MND (or -MND) is doing to your WSC... with STR you would have to consider fSTR too.

[Zirk]

Look. My normal tp gear with pizza has 450 attack. my normal asuran fist has 500 attack without neck. if I boosts its at ~600. Do you really think i need more attack after that?

I always thought attack bonus from boost only affected the first hit of the weapon skill and thus doesn't really do anything for Asuran Fists, is this not the case?

[Mazmaz]

No... always boost before WS.

[Vodou]

edit : there is a reason you don't see 1300 asuran fists in meripos. I don't think I've seen a lot of 1k+ either, with or without cor.

I couldn't reply before I looked, but 1K should not be 'that' rare. Is it as often as I do on my sam? Heck no, no way, not close. But I've broken 1K with AF as many as 27 times in a single dynamis and probably get around 15 in a normal merit party.

Still, obviously mnks don't get most of our damage from WS and I can confirm never seeing a 1300 in merits or dynamis.


And yes, always boost before WS EXCEPT during hundred fists. Damage lost while boosting is more than you gain on the WS.

[azagarth]

vod you dont break 1300 even in merits? sad day maybe its taru str or something? Its not common but I do break 1300 every full moon when shit aligns just right lol.... probably count it on my two hands but it does happen. Though it didnt happen until I got shens, but since you have relic vod I would think you would see it more common. I have never broke 1300 on a MMJ though, and it only happens on birds when they get debuffed to shit and I have 2 attack buffs and am using meat. As for puks its not to uncommon to break 1200 but 1300 is very rare still even on those very weak mobs.

Asuran though isnt to flashy. I normally will avg around 900 give or take depending buffs. This is at both camps since puks highly skew the numbers (super easy to break 1k on them). Last meritpo I had at North mmj camp i was 879 avg and thats with 2 minuet brd+brd pty.

maybe I am weird but i like furry in dyna when im on mnk.... I normally do not get any form of support job, so its purely me and my food. with asurans I tend to be around 500s and my furrys are around 600s for avgs when i parse.

vod lets meripo and see lol!

[Vodou]

vod you dont break 1300 even in merits? sad day maybe its taru str or something? Its not common but I do break 1300 every full moon when shit aligns just right lol.... probably count it on my two hands but it does happen. Though it didnt happen until I got shens, but since you have relic vod I would think you would see it more common. I have never broke 1300 on a MMJ though, and it only happens on birds when they get debuffed to shit and I have 2 attack buffs and am using meat. As for puks its not to uncommon to break 1200 but 1300 is very rare still even on those very weak mobs.

Asuran though isnt to flashy. I normally will avg around 900 give or take depending buffs. This is at both camps since puks highly skew the numbers (super easy to break 1k on them). Last meritpo I had at North mmj camp i was 879 avg and thats with 2 minuet brd+brd pty.

maybe I am weird but i like furry in dyna when im on mnk.... I normally do not get any form of support job, so its purely me and my food. with asurans I tend to be around 500s and my furrys are around 600s for avgs when i parse.

vod lets meripo and see lol!

1250's seem to be my best. Maybe it's being taru or maybe it's buffs /debuffs, idk. I think the actual cap (excluding blunt damage bonus or such) is somewhere around 1300, but I haven't done the math and maybe since we know more today, the real cap is something else.

Haven't done puks in a looooong time tho.

[pchan]

vod you dont break 1300 even in merits? sad day maybe its taru str or something? Its not common but I do break 1300 every full moon when shit aligns just right lol.... probably count it on my two hands but it does happen. Though it didnt happen until I got shens, but since you have relic vod I would think you would see it more common. I have never broke 1300 on a MMJ though, and it only happens on birds when they get debuffed to shit and I have 2 attack buffs and am using meat. As for puks its not to uncommon to break 1200 but 1300 is very rare still even on those very weak mobs.

Asuran though isnt to flashy. I normally will avg around 900 give or take depending buffs. This is at both camps since puks highly skew the numbers (super easy to break 1k on them). Last meritpo I had at North mmj camp i was 879 avg and thats with 2 minuet brd+brd pty.

maybe I am weird but i like furry in dyna when im on mnk.... I normally do not get any form of support job, so its purely me and my food. with asurans I tend to be around 500s and my furrys are around 600s for avgs when i parse.

vod lets meripo and see lol!

You can break 1K on MMJ, it happens. How often ? 900 average is what I was getting back when I used Hades Sainti +1, and it didn't seem to vary with COR or no COR . Puks are lower level so naturally you will do better. You do a bit better on birds but 1300 don't happen or are super rare. On the other hands as soon as I switch to decent challenge - even match (Nyzul) 1300-1400 becomes frequent, and mobs don't magically lose 200 DEF compared to birds.

[mdkuser]

I always thought attack bonus from boost only affected the first hit of the weapon skill and thus doesn't really do anything for Asuran Fists, is this not the case?

I couldn't reply before I looked, but 1K should not be 'that' rare. Is it as often as I do on my sam? Heck no, no way, not close. But I've broken 1K with AF as many as 27 times in a single dynamis and probably get around 15 in a normal merit party.

Still, obviously mnks don't get most of our damage from WS and I can confirm never seeing a 1300 in merits or dynamis.


And yes, always boost before WS EXCEPT during hundred fists. Damage lost while boosting is more than you gain on the WS.

boost has been proven to affect all hits through parses. Boost enhanced melee and asuran fist's dmg by the same %s. If boost applied to the first hit only, it would enhance AF 8 times less basically.

So the only way to do epeen asuran fists is to increase your STR ( and VIT...), which is quite unnatural to monks. MNK is attack capped during AF very often thanks to boost, food, chaos rolls or minuet ( 650+ attack..).

It's actually the same for SAM, but you got the illusion to do "huge" gekkos due to double attacks procing way more often than max pDIF for asuran, but it's compensated by the missed gekkos ( zero dmg!). A typical gekko is like 80% of a typical asuran fist ( on merits mobs). Look:

its easy to cap attack, fSTR and acc for both WS. So before attack bonus is taken into account...

typical gekko does:

fSTR=16
fTP=1.975
overwhelm=1.19
WSC( base STR 145)=89

damage(hagun)=(75+16+89)*1.975*1.19=423


typical Asuran fists does :

fSTR=10
fSTP=8.1
WSC( 120 STR+ 80 VIT)=16

damage( destroyers)=(55+10+16)*8.1=656


now take caped attack into account: 2hander's max pDIF on level 82 mobs ( 7 level difference) is ~2.3 and one hander's max is ~2.1

gekko=423*2.3=972
AF=656*2.1=1377

non DA'd max gekko = 70% of AF.
DA'd max gekko= 1465


Now take 15% double attack, 95% acc and average pDIF into accounts:

gekko:

ftp configuration:

ftp= 1.975, 0.95*0.85+0.95*0.05*0.15=81.5% of the time (single hit )
ftp=2.975, 0.95^2*0.15=13.5% of the time ( double attack)
ftp=1.0, 0.95*0.05*0.15=0.7% ( DA with first hit miss)
ftp=0, 0.05*0.85+0.05^2*0.15=4.3%

average ftp=2.08
average pDIF=1.85

(75+16+89)*2.08*1.19*1.85
Gekko= 824


there are like 20 possible configurations for asuran fist, just keep the main ones: 66% of the time it's 8-hit (ftp=8.1) 25% of the time it's 7 hits ( ftp= 7.1) 4% of the time it's 6 hit (ftp=6.1) 4% of the time it's 7 hit with first missed ( 7.0 ftp) and 1% of the time it's 6 hits with first hit missed ( ftp =6.0). neglect <5 hit asuran fists.

average ftp is now 8.1*0.66+7.1*0.25+6.1*0.04+7.0*0.04+6.0*0.01=7.7
average pdif=1.6

(55+10+16)*7.7*1.6
asuran fists =997
gekko = 80% of AF.

Edit: fixed the math ( wrong STR figure for both).

[azagarth]

ya on birds I assume absolute cap is a little above 1300. I know I have broke 1300 there but only a very very small # of times like once or twice. If I can break 1100 there normally im pretty excited lol. The 1300s probably had minuetx2, chaos, meat mith (normally use crab but sometimes get bored and try for epen #s lol and not avgs) and dia3. SO id be attack capped easily and probably lucked out and got a low lv birds and the # generator was nice. oh also woulda probably had been when focus was up too in case you where worried about my acc with the food. I normally plan for a snatch every 5 mins or less so if i do use meat it will be when focus gets used and i get snatched right away lol.

And ya i do know what you mean about ep-dc mobs. The def/vit difference isnt that much but I can easily rock 1300s on them pretty dang often. Same applies to salvage mobs too. Me and my relic co tank mnk are normally neck and neck dmg wise and its funny watching us do the dekka route and just cream them with constant 1100+ ws. However i can clearly see a big different from my destroyer days with peaks. That 3 base dmg and 3 str really make a big difference. Rarely if ever could break 1200 on even small mobs with destroyers. no math or enough parse to back it up but seems like 100 dmg difference between the weps on max asurans.

[pchan]

The 1300 on bird was due to luck in pdif, minuet does nothing : you got high pdif in all of your hits. In theory with 6 levels difference, a capped cratio at 2.0-6*0.05=1.7, the pdif ranges between 1.2 and 2.05. Take Shenlong's for instance, with capped fstr (10) that's 66D on the weapon. Take 16 WSC (120 STR 75 VIT ish), that's 82D. So under capped attack conditions AF varies between :

1.2*8*82=787 and
2.05*8*82=1344.80

[azagarth]

hmm do all hits have separate pdif then or all take what main one gets? with how rare the 1300s are id assume the latter, but want to make sure.

also i doubt I had 120 str, but I know my vit would have been higher which would have probably compensated (im a galka).

now bigger Question.... how is it that I break 1300's pretty commonly on lv65~75 mobs. Does not seem like it would change so drastically.

[mdkuser]

I assume all 8 hits have separate random pdif, which means asuran fist rarely hits its max/min, and instead is very consistent and stays usually around its average.

[Vodou]

So, to get really technical

WSC = floor (floor((A x A%) + (B x B%)) x α) where A, B are the stats and % is the WS modifier,

is the formula from wiki.

So this means for asuran fists when adding str or vit, you will change WSC only if you are moving to a tier that is divisible by 10. E.g., if total str is between 120 and 129, WSC is calculated as +12, but at total str of 130, it jumps to 13?

So other than the obvious benefit in fstr and cratio (if not capped), this is irrelevant unless you are close to a tier. (At which point getting +1 could be pretty nice.)

[mdkuser]

The tiers for WSC are STR+VIT= 140,150,160, 170, 190, 200, 210 (180 is not a tier)... the alpha means sometimes you have to increase str+vit by 20 in order to increase WSC by 1.

Unfortunately most monks will fall in the 170-190 range lol... need osode/str rings /rajas/BB to reach the next tier, at a loss of accuracy, which is fixed by the MKD hat. Trying to exceed a tier without reaching the next tier is only adding attack and fSTR ( if not caped yet).

[Khajit]

Thalsocratt vs Aern weapon.
My drg currently has capped acc with meat with thalsocratt at least partially due to the eva down proc. I dont use it on anything strong (aka its the colibri job if by some miracle im not told to go sam when DD) and the endgame ls i joined recently seems blm centric in their strategies so I'd probably never get to use drg anyway.

[azagarth]

the aern makes for a much easier 6hit. I personally would use it over thala. Obviously it will hit harder and slower, but I think with the sword strap it bring the delay down right around tala. And since you probably tp in aurum anyhow its not hurting you any ;D I am not a drg though just what I have seen.

[Khajit]

the aern makes for a much easier 6hit. I personally would use it over thala. Obviously it will hit harder and slower, but I think with the sword strap it bring the delay down right around tala. And since you probably tp in aurum anyhow its not hurting you any ;D I am not a drg though just what I have seen.

um.... they're both 6 hits anyway since drakesbane is a multi hit ws. Im not sure how it's going to endup as a "much easier" one when i already got it on thal.
Also i use askar body during my capped acc setup so i could try and steer my zeni production if i start work on that towards khimmy for aurum so you did manage to give me that at least.

If they really are about equal then until i find some good evolith it's essentially :
Looks cool and slightly harder hits +gil vs 2~4% DA and eva down (for every pt member without capped acc including myself until aurum)

[Kyte]

Melee Hose versus Enkidu Subligar during Hundred Fists?

EDIT: Actually, on that same note, Dune boots versus Denali

[Neosutra]

Melee Hose versus Enkidu Subligar during Hundred Fists?

EDIT: Actually, on that same note, Dune boots versus Denali

Melee hose + dune boots for HF.

[Cantih]

I have a problem before me.

I have THF and SCH, and I'm working on ASA atm.
For THF, I have Skadi Legs, so TP Desultors is out. And there are better SA/TA/WS legs than what you can build with augments. Also, I have Trotters, so no 8% needed.

So I'm looking at what I can make for SCH. The options seem to be MAB+4 MAC+4, but isn't the 7 INT from Errant better than 2I+(4/4)?
So the other option is MAB+4 and MCritDamage +10%, but afaik, you need MCritRate gear to even use that, which brings me to the other dilemma. (Also, I have Desert Boots, so again, no 8% needed)

The main MCritRate piece is Selenian Cap's 10%, so I'd have to get that and the +4 INT augment.
BUT
As I have THF, but neither MS WS, it seems pretty clear cut to get the [STR+4 WSAcc+15 Acc+10 Att+5] for DE/Evi.

What do I do? =\

(The only other, and as far as I can tell clearly insane option, would be to get Anwig DEX+4 CritDam+2%, and Desultor CritDam+3%, and try to combine it with X's Knife. Which I don't have yet since I only finished SCH a few months ago and haven't rounded up a Requiem of Sin static yet.)