What's Better?

[Kyte]

Perdu also has acc/att+.

I think that was what he was getting at >_>; It's not unheard of for gear to have hidden stats, and it is possible (albeit not probable) that the Foolkiller too has hidden stats.

[firepixiedarien]

In general, what should a Red Mage trying to land paralyze in end game use?

Aquilo's Staff
Enfeeb torque
Relic hat
AF body

and everything stack the hell outta +MND?

[Windfoxster]

In general, what should a Red Mage trying to land paralyze in end game use?

Aquilo's Staff
Enfeeb torque
Relic hat
AF body

and everything stack the hell outta +MND?

End game is pretty broad, if you mean hnms like cerberus/khimaira then you should try to stack as much macc/enfeeb equips as possible. Even then it is pretty random,at least to me.

There are more enfeeb equips than those you mentioned like sea cape/nashira seraweels/earring. Normally RDMs have 3 builds, max potency, resist build and mix-match. Max potency (wand/shield), you stack as much mnds possible without using any enfeeb equips. Resist build is just macc/enfeeb skills + mnd equips if you can't get any macc/enfeeb in it. Mix-match, probably elemental staves + mnd equips depending on your preference.

[firepixiedarien]

End game is pretty broad, if you mean hnms like cerberus/khimaira then you should try to stack as much macc/enfeeb equips as possible. Even then it is pretty random,at least to me.

There are more enfeeb equips than those you mentioned like sea cape/nashira seraweels/earring. Normally RDMs have 3 builds, max potency, resist build and mix-match. Max potency (wand/shield), you stack as much mnds possible without using any enfeeb equips. Resist build is just macc/enfeeb skills + mnd equips if you can't get any macc/enfeeb in it. Mix-match, probably elemental staves + mnd equips depending on your preference.

Damn, and here I thought I could take the easy way out by doing the mix match option with what i suggested onry <.<

[FailureMidgard]

Perdu also has acc/att+.

The math doesnt lie, Perdu>Foolkiller even with latents active. But it's not like it matters since I've never seen the latent actually be active for foolkiller.

I guess I'll spell it out more.
The first line the sarcasm, the other 2 lines specifically referenced that Foolkiller may in fact have more than the 8 STR as a hidden latent, and kinda hinted at the fact that I'm pretty well aware Perdu has acc/att, thanks.

The point is, as is, it's stupid to even compare with "if the latent were always active", because nobody knows how to trigger the latent, but past that, you truly don't even know if it'll get something else random while the latent is active (TP Bonus, etc), and there is plenty of precedent in hidden latents in the game, such as the item it's being compared to.

[Neosutra]

But we know for a fact that the latent isnt in effect for this situation so it is a moot debate.

My joytoy could have a super secret +20 str latent that doesnt show up in the stat bar and cant be tested via pdif calculations, but only surfaces in rare occurances when I have parse anomolies, but that would probably be a silly hypothesis..

[FailureMidgard]

The point is, as is, it's stupid to even compare with "if the latent were always active"

But we know for a fact that the latent isnt in effect for this situation so it is a moot debate.

My joytoy could have a super secret +20 str latent that doesnt show up in the stat bar and cant be tested via pdif calculations, but only surfaces in rare occurances when I have parse anomolies, but that would probably be a silly hypothesis..

Reading. You're completely missing everything everyone is trying to tell you, as usual.

1. PERDU HAS A SUPER SECRET LATENT. I found it ironic that a latent nobody knows how to activate is being compared at face value to a weapon that actually has this occuring.
2. My first line was sarcasm.
3. It's stupid to compare unless someone figures out the latent. Period.

[Howard Roark]

Trying to choose ACP body and as MNK is my favorite job I'd like something to use until I get Usukane. I have togi so my main concern is a chariot tanking piece. I don't have enkidu harness so I am considering the Subtle Blow/ Store Tp+4 + another option, possibly Evasion since I usually use sushi on chariots

inb4 switch to pizza

everything seems pretty mediocre for MNK if you already have shura togi

edit: I currently use SH+1; I was using antares but it was on loan from a friend, Acc and Eva 1- would be a bit of a sidegrade I think

[Neosutra]

Reading. You're completely missing everything everyone is trying to tell you, as usual.

1. PERDU HAS A SUPER SECRET LATENT. I found it ironic that a latent nobody knows how to activate is being compared at face value to a weapon that actually has this occuring.
2. My first line was sarcasm.
3. It's stupid to compare unless someone figures out the latent. Period.

Listen. I dont know why you feel so god damned butt hurt from that topic way back about shadow mantle, but your constant antagonistic responses are getting old.

GET OVER IT, jesus christ you cant really be this emo.

We are saying the same thing, however you were referencing some vague concept of "not knowing what secret latents may be active" when comments like that are semantics that are irrelevant to a "whats better" debate.


The guy asked which was better, the correct answer is Perdu, there is no reason to say anything else. Go away.

[Anomander]

Trying to choose ACP body and as MNK is my favorite job I'd like something to use until I get Usukane. I have togi so my main concern is a chariot tanking piece. I don't have enkidu harness so I am considering the Subtle Blow/ Store Tp+4 + another option, possibly Evasion since I usually use sushi on chariots

inb4 switch to pizza

everything seems pretty mediocre for MNK if you already have shura togi

edit: I currently use SH+1; I was using antares but it was on loan from a friend, Acc and Eva 1- would be a bit of a sidegrade I think

I'm not positive how noticeable the evasion will be, tanking these on sam in full usu I still feel like I never evade (same rating as mnk). Haven't actually looked at evasion numbers in a parse, however, so if my evade rate wasn't floored it could be useful. This is assuming your hit rate will still be capped with sushi and w/o the accuracy (although I would look into accuracy and adding pizza myself).

Subtle blow can actually be useful on salvage bosses. Back when we had extra numbers for a run having a cor and getting monk's roll on the boss made them a complete joke, (note: we don't use monks, but the subtle blow effect from a good roll+rajas still gets you nearly to cap) especially on battleclad, who doesn't have any regain.

[Neosutra]

Ya Howard, I've tanked chariots in full usu and even the old traditional mnk set (togi, turban, bandos, haidate, fumas), and the evasion difference isnt that big (besides Arrapoga, but that boss is blind).

Just go full DD build (marginal difference between togi and acc/att acp peice, so just stick with togi), and the fight will go better than partial defensive build.

With 2 mnks on the chariot with decent penance merits you shouldnt be worrying about TP spam much, and with double march on you and slow/elegy on the chariots, it's pretty hard to die. I would recommend staying away from sushi though... It's useless 2 minutes out of 5 (focus), 1 minute out of 5 (feint), and marginally effective the rest of the time.

[Nevex]

In general, what should a Red Mage trying to land paralyze in end game use?

Aquilo's Staff
Enfeeb torque
Relic hat
AF body

and everything stack the hell outta +MND?

Quite sure that a few HNMs (mainly Khim and Cerb) have a landing rate cap on spells like Slow, Para and Elegy, which is around 10~20% no matter how high your m.acc is. Pretty much like non-ES'd Sleeps will land on Wyrms 5% of the time no matter what.

I notice no difference in landing my Slow as WHM or RDM on them, both in full MND gear, and their MND isn't even that high since when Para lands it does proc quite often.

Bottom line: go full-MND on HNMs, you're going to have to spam Slow and Para regardless.

[Nermie]

In general, what should a Red Mage trying to land paralyze in end game use?

Aquilo's Staff
Enfeeb torque
Relic hat
AF body

and everything stack the hell outta +MND?

Check out the discussion going on in "Post Pictures of your gear" thread

[FailureMidgard]

And Perdu Voulge is just D96, 504 delay under latent, right?

While I agree if the latent is just 8 str, it's nothing too special...but it's not like there aren't other hidden latents, such as in the weapon you're comparing it to. Maybe 1 day someone will figure out how the latent works. ;p

Key point - I am disagreeing with the statement of "even assuming the latent is active." That is all, because it's quite stupid to assume that when we can't even do that, and there is a pretty decent chance that it may have something more hidden with it. I agree Perdu wins.

Perdu also has acc/att+.

Hurr durr, you're smart. Sarcasm detection.

I think that was what he was getting at >_>; It's not unheard of for gear to have hidden stats, and it is possible (albeit not probable) that the Foolkiller too has hidden stats.

Look, the other guy got it. I admit, I was a bit annoyed you're trying to correct me on something because you're too dense to detect sarcasm.

I guess I'll spell it out more.
The first line the sarcasm, the other 2 lines specifically referenced that Foolkiller may in fact have more than the 8 STR as a hidden latent, and kinda hinted at the fact that I'm pretty well aware Perdu has acc/att, thanks.

The point is, as is, it's stupid to even compare with "if the latent were always active", because nobody knows how to trigger the latent, but past that, you truly don't even know if it'll get something else random while the latent is active (TP Bonus, etc), and there is plenty of precedent in hidden latents in the game, such as the item it's being compared to.

Hey see, I'm saying it's stupid to think about the latent when it isn't active. It's still stupid, because a lot of these weapons DO HAVE A SECOND EFFECT. Compare it not being active, because that's all we can do. Figure out latent, figure out if it does more, AND THEN compare to latent active.

But we know for a fact that the latent isnt in effect for this situation so it is a moot debate.

My joytoy could have a super secret +20 str latent that doesnt show up in the stat bar and cant be tested via pdif calculations, but only surfaces in rare occurances when I have parse anomolies, but that would probably be a silly hypothesis..

Not an ounce of intelligence in here. I already said you should assume the latent isn't active, holy shit, reading is such a novel idea. Also, "but" is again, implying you're trying to argue with me, and then you're trying to tell me it's a moot debate, as if I didn't say that in my first fucking post before you replied TO ME.

Reading. You're completely missing everything everyone is trying to tell you, as usual.

1. PERDU HAS A SUPER SECRET LATENT. I found it ironic that a latent nobody knows how to activate is being compared at face value to a weapon that actually has this occuring.
2. My first line was sarcasm.
3. It's stupid to compare unless someone figures out the latent. Period.

A useless attempt to get you to read, like this post is now. I don't know why I bother.

Listen. I dont know why you feel so god damned butt hurt from that topic way back about shadow mantle, but your constant antagonistic responses are getting old.

You. Replied. To me. You. Tried. To call. Me. Wrong. Get the fuck out of here, I'm not being antagonistic, you are if anyone, and I'm being defensive 'cause I don't like idiots who can't read or put together a coherent argument calling me wrong.

GET OVER IT, jesus christ you cant really be this emo.

WTF does that debate have anything to do with anything except another reference of you being unable to read or respond properly to a point someone else makes? Every time someone argues with you, you ignore what they say, and try to redirect your argument to the one thing they agreed with you on and say you are right on everything else because of it.

We are saying the same thing, however you were referencing some vague concept of "not knowing what secret latents may be active" when comments like that are semantics that are irrelevant to a "whats better" debate.


The guy asked which was better, the correct answer is Perdu, there is no reason to say anything else. Go away.

It is, but Byrth implied that regardless of the latent, Perdu is still better, which is not only not supported by anything, but flat out may be wrong. It's spreading misinformation, which was what I was trying to correct. If you could read, you'd understand this, but alas, you don't seem to have that gift.

Perdu is better. Nobody at this point in time can in good faith make the statement that "even if the latent is always active, Perdu will still win." It is a false statement. Use Perdu until the latent is figured out, but when the latent is figured out, it will be worth re-visiting.

[Byrthnoth]

I think you're wrong to insist upon your point so strongly, and honestly I found your issue with what I said silly enough that I didn't bother to reply. There's no indication that Foolkiller has any kind of hidden effect to compliment its latent, and it would be surprising if it did.

By your logic, I can't make a concrete statement about any weapon in the game because it might have a hidden effect that we don't know how to trigger yet. It's not cool to get all my nuts for reading the weapon's description and giving a perfectly valid explanation for Ax's observation. In a zerg, engaging first makes all the difference.

Just let it die. There's no way to prove it one way or the other and unless Foolkiller's latent also comes with hidden effect D+4 it's probably crap.

[FailureMidgard]

I think you're wrong to insist upon your point so strongly, and honestly I found your issue with what I said silly enough that I didn't bother to reply. There's no indication that Foolkiller has any kind of hidden effect to compliment its latent, and it would be surprising if it did.

By your logic, I can't make a concrete statement about any weapon in the game because it might have a hidden effect that we don't know how to trigger yet. It's not cool to get all my nuts for reading the weapon's description and giving a perfectly valid explanation for Ax's observation. In a zerg, engaging first makes all the difference.

Just let it die. There's no way to prove it one way or the other and unless Foolkiller's latent also comes with hidden effect D+4 it's probably crap.

Engaging first makes all the difference in a non-zerg too. Again, it's funny and ironic that through all this, the weapon that beats it indeed has a hidden latent, again, along with the vast majority of endgame weapon choices including relics, perdu gaxe/scythe/katana/blau/etc, tredicim, elemental staves, Joyeuse, Birdbanes, Bourdonasse, etc. Really, I could go on, but what's the point? It's one thing to say I can't prove a Flame Ring doesn't have a hidden...It's a bit different to say that an item with a latent we don't know how to activate most definitely has nothing else attached to it like a perdu weapon does. I don't see that anywhere near the same as taking a Perdu weapon and comparing it to a weapon with a latent we don't know how to activate that.

I think most hidden effects are pretty apparent early on, but I guess I have a reserve on anything with a latent that the hidden could easily be attached to that, so if you can't figure out the latent, I wouldn't assume it's what it is at face value. Lyft weapons were figured out in no time that they had something else going on, because the entire weapon was there. Basically, that's not the case now, hidden effects are common enough in this game, people choose a vast # of pieces based on hidden effects, so ya...

For now though, it sucks, use perdu or rune.

[Byrthnoth]

Speaking of Lyft Voulge, I still want to figure out what its second or third hidden effects are! Thanks for reminding me <___<;

Supposedly the GKT has at least STP+4 and STR+4 (TP bonus untested to my knowledge). The Crossbow supposedly has MND+4 and TP Bonus +48. It'd be cool if the GA had Double Attack to go with its STR (I'm pretty sure it doesn't have STP from the one NI run I got to do with it, if it did then I'd have had a 6-hit, and I didn't). Either way, it's a useful weapon for getting a 6-hit as WAR/NIN (Aurum Cuirass/Rose Strap/Ecphoria), which might be relevant if everything in Abyssea hits like our current level 90 mobs (aka Tiamat).

Someone halp me test \(^.^)/

[Greatguardian]

Is Settler's Cape worth using pre-Cuchulain's for TP as Atonement PLD over Amemet+1? I have it for my cure cheat anyways, but I wasn't sure how the Acc+10 compared to the net Attack+26 Str+2 HP+30.

It looks rather straightforward, but I've heard that homam body is supposedly better than Haub NQ for Atonement spam, so it's the same concept.

Edit: This is for pretty much anything that isn't a land king. Typical food used is dorado sushi.

[Clerix]

DNC or 2nd BRD (Or a COR) for a merit party?

Assuming 5haste samba merits.

[ZhiGaruda]

Is Settler's Cape worth using pre-Cuchulain's for TP as Atonement PLD over Amemet+1? I have it for my cure cheat anyways, but I wasn't sure how the Acc+10 compared to the net Attack+26 Str+2 HP+30.

It looks rather straightforward, but I've heard that homam body is supposedly better than Haub NQ for Atonement spam, so it's the same concept.

Edit: This is for pretty much anything that isn't a land king. Typical food used is dorado sushi.

Eh, assuming they are regular mobs (as you said, not a king) you probably wouldn't have too much of an accuracy issue using sushi. If your sword is merited, even better.