Michele Bachmann: Spectacle or Prophet?

[volcanicweather]

I love this - I received shit for moving from Minnesota to Texas because it was a "red" state. Now all I have to do is bring up Bachmann for people in MN to shut their faces. So glad to be out of that freezing hellhole.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

She can talk some crazy, but I suspect she's a fish in bed.

[Olo401]

Nuts.

[Neosutra]

What negative effects of religion on politics?

Um, the ones in the OP?

Or the continuing anti gay politics driven by ignorance, prejudice, and (brace yourself here) christianity?

Or the continuing anti-choice polices, anti-research policies (stem cells arent the only area of research that religiously motivated politics interfer).

Or the continued wave of anti-islamic responses from the christian right?

If we only talk about Islam then we might have a discussion, but religion?

Oh I LOVE how christians can see so clearly the negative effects of Islam on politics but be completely blind to the same dogmas effecting their own government. The conclusion you and other conservatives (aka christians) should be getting out of the middle east is that THEOCRICIES and ignorance is bad, not Islam. The middle east should be a shining example of why america should have no influence from the religious right in any of its politics.

[Brill Weave]

I like her. She's fucking funny.

[Kuya]

Neosutra, has it ever occured to you that what is likely the worst thing in the US, rather than its hollow piety is the same reason why you're in a tent?

[Kuya]

Why would you complain about the religious right, when you form part of the very system that physical leads to the death of thousands in the Middle East? Why don't you do something more productive and become an anti-war activist rather than aiding and abetting war?

[Elvis]

You give her all this fun quotes and titles from liberal media outlets and sum up your already lacking argument with "she's crazy".

Why is it every time you find an actual crazy person, you instantly leap to the conclusion: "I bet all those right-wingers agree with him! Let's make lists of all the crazy people we know and then start calling on every conservative to denounce every loser in the world!"

When they fail to say "I denounce this crazy person" five million times to every wacko in the world, you declare them to be supporting racism, "hatred", etc.

Conservatives aren't allowed to question liberals' patriotism, but liberals are sure allowed to slander conservatives because they don't automatically denounce every statement by anyone relevantly important.

What negative effects of religion on politics?

If we only talk about Islam then we might have a discussion, but religion?

What do you know about Islam? Or the ME? What books have you read? I recall asking you what you had to say about Chalmers Johnson. The context was that YOU propped up Michael Moore as a symbol of 'liberalism' and I brought up Chalmers Johnson to point out that there are plenty of articulate and intellectually honest liberals out there.

Your response?

Essentially: 'Chalmers Johnson doesn't matter because he doesn't hold office. He thinks imperialism is bad and I think it's basically good [My interjection: you said this part almost word-for-word].'

You're not a conservative. You're a moron.

Christian Zionism is a good place to start. The Orthodox Jewish settlers in Occupied/Colonized Palestine is another.

Here's one such book on Christian Zionism:

http://www.amazon.com/Republican-Gom.../dp/1568583982

EDIT: wrong link, this is the correct book - http://www.amazon.com/Road-Armageddo...562827&sr=1-12

the Blumenthal one is excellent though, google his lectures first. he did a bunch of them to promote the book. he's an investigative journalist though and not a historian. it's very detailed in the time-frame in which he does the analysis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig

There are legitimate grievances amongst the peoples of the ME. No amount of right-wing and fake-liberal-media BS is going to change that.

[Kuya]

Seriously elvis, don't take leif seriously.

[Elvis]

[Neosutra]

Why would you complain about the religious right, when you form part of the very system that physical leads to the death of thousands in the Middle East? Why don't you do something more productive and become an anti-war activist rather than aiding and abetting war?

Last time I checked (which was today when I was out at the local villages), we were building new schools, hospitals, government infrastructure, and a locally run army/police force, all while providing protection for the local populous from radical insurgents whom have spent the last few years threatening these people with violence and death if they dont bow to their will.

Not sure what paper you're reading that shows us just mindlessly killing thousands in some holy crusade, but id tune away from Al Jazeer (sp?)..

[Olo401]

Last time I checked (which was today when I was out at the local villages), we were building new schools, hospitals, government infrastructure, and a locally run army/police force, all while providing protection for the local populous from radical insurgents whom have spent the last few years threatening these people with violence and death if they dont bow to their will.

Not sure what paper you're reading that shows us just mindlessly killing thousands in some holy crusade, but id tune away from Al Jazeer (sp?)..

Uhh.. not sure what you're not reading, but I'd learn the fact that we can both build stuff to help civilians in a war zone and shoot/bomb them while we're hunting terrorists.. at the same time.

[Neosutra]

Uhh.. not sure what you're not reading, but I'd learn the fact that we can both build stuff to help civilians in a war zone and shoot/bomb them while we're hunting terrorists.. at the same time.

Yes, but alluding to some concept that I am endorsing mindless murdering of 1000s of innocents isnt the same as saying there have been innocent casaulties in a complex war.

[Olo401]

Yes, but alluding to some concept that I am endorsing mindless murdering of 1000s of innocents isnt the same as saying there have been innocent casaulties in a complex war.

You're correct, but it's much more subjective than that. Many anti-war activists will draw the line between innocent casualties and mindless murder at a VERY low point.

[Leif]

Or the continuing anti gay politics driven by ignorance, prejudice, and (brace yourself here) christianity?

Anti-gay... give me a break. The left is more anti-gay than the right will ever be. The party of racism, segregation, racial discrimination, racial preferences, and victim classes does not have the interests of the gays.

On the other hand, Republicans would love to put a gun in the hand of every person who wants one. Considering gays make more than straight ("oppressed minority"), I'd say tax breaks are a good thing to.

Thanks, but no thanks, Democrats. I don't want your "hate crimes", "hate speech", and "anti-discrimination" bullshit.

Or the continuing anti-choice polices, anti-research policies (stem cells arent the only area of research that religiously motivated politics interfer).

Again with the "choice" code word for abortion. It's called abortion, a procedure that sucks a baby out of a womb and puts it in a jar.

If you run around calling people anti-choice, we can call you pro-abortion. We know how that polls in America. You lose.

Or the continued wave of anti-islamic responses from the christian right?

Like what? "If you bomb us, we'll bomb you"?

Oh I LOVE how christians can see so clearly the negative effects of Islam on politics but be completely blind to the same dogmas effecting their own government.

Last time I checked, the Christians/Jews/Amish aren't strapping bombs to their chests.

The conclusion you and other conservatives (aka christians) should be getting out of the middle east is that THEOCRICIES and ignorance is bad, not Islam.

Except practitioners of Islam (or as we all know it: "the religion of peace") keep blowing stuff up. While Islamic countries lead by insane despots actively seek nuclear weapons (or as the left knows it: "safe nuclear energy"), Osama bin Laden isn't exactly sponsored by a theocracy.

The middle east should be a shining example of why america should have no influence from the religious right in any of its politics.

Which groups should and should not influence politics? Everyone has a vote. Deal with it.

America should have influence from anyone who our first amendment applies to. That is just about everyone but terrorists in Guantanamo, although that's near the top on the list of things to accomplish.

[Correction]

Did Leif just invoke the sanctity of the First Amendment to protect radical Christians then denounce Islam with underinformed blanket statements in the same post? Troll's casting a wide net today.

[eunhye]

Did Leif just invoke the sanctity of the First Amendment to protect radical Christians then denounce Islam with underinformed blanket statements in the same post? Troll's casting a wide net today.

Radical christians don't strap themselves with bombs though, do they?

[Brill Weave]

Did Leif just

Any sentence that starts out like this automatically means he's trolling.

[Pirian]

Radical christians don't strap themselves with bombs though, do they?

Actually they do, unless I'm being wooshed?

[Kuya]

Last time I checked (which was today when I was out at the local villages), we were building new schools, hospitals, government infrastructure, and a locally run army/police force, all while providing protection for the local populous from radical insurgents whom have spent the last few years threatening these people with violence and death if they dont bow to their will.

Not sure what paper you're reading that shows us just mindlessly killing thousands in some holy crusade, but id tune away from Al Jazeer (sp?)..

1- I don't think people overlook the fact that you kill women and children if you build them some schools, i think at that point they want you to get the fuck out.

2- Oh no, i'm aware the US military doesn't kill civilians for lols. They just call them casualties or collateral. Of course the logic that nobody says out loud is that these people are okay to sacrifice as long as you keep America safe... from ghosts. It's really quite cute. It's okay if civilians get killed as long as you say you didn't mean it, that somehow makes it okay.

It's just cute how you go on and on about religion, blah blah blah crusades, blah blah blah, yet let's focus on what's going on now, shall we? Who kills more people now? The US military or the weakening catholic church? Or how about those loosely affiliated protestant sects? And guess which organization you belong to?

I just think it's funny you think you're entitled to your soap box when you form part of the US's defense force. Defense for what? Not the US, we know damn well the US hasn't been in a defensive war for decades. Defending US interests is more like it. Yet you don't seem to have a problem forming part of an organization that is currently laying siege to the Middle East while at the same time wagging your finger at fundamentalists.

Your beliefs don't mean shit. If you really meant them you would join an organization that doesn't kill civilians (accidentally!!) at one side and help them on the other. Who buys that two faced crap? Maybe if you were just a basement dwelling nerd with no job, your crusade against religion might mean something, because at the at very least you could claim you don't belong to a force that doesn't actually lead to people dying.