AION Focus group about Sieges

[niwaar]

not true, balaur took Miren from Asmodians on triniel today.

granted they had elyos help for the first 75% but the general had an insignia buff on and the Balaur won with 10 minutes left.

Don't give me crap about semantics...

The Balaur are pretty much incapable of taking a fortress on their own like they were able to in the past. The Dredgion is far too slow and does not pop until AFTER a fortress becomes vulnerable. Over 90% of the time it will pop on the outskirts and take 5+ minutes to arrive if not more like 10-15 meandering minutes. Before the changes to sieges a while back, the Dredgion was capable of taking anything it set its sights on. Granted we have a lot more 45+ players than we did back then, but still even with our current levels it would at least be a toss up on losing to a sustained attack by the Dredgion.

If the other faction helps the Balaur win, it is not the Balaur being as capable as either faction. Which is what the Dredgion was specifically designed to be. The Dredgion is a "reset" button. Intended to help keep the balance of power in check. Currently this button is broken and needs to be fixed.

If the boss enraged after 30 minutes of being engaged this would solve the issue. It would also let factions attack multiple points during a 2 hour siege window. Creating more strategy than there is the capability of being today. You do not need to have the boss "runaway". Just after 30 minutes, make him capable of one shotting any enemy that comes near him until the 2 hour timer is up.

"resisting melee" is called evasion, block, and parry.


if a lv.35 can resist everything you cast on them you need to update your gear more often than every 25 levels.

Let me preface this with... I am a melee. But even I can see the issues with MR and the ability to stack it.

Resisting melee may be called Evasion, but block and parry are called mitigation. These are akin to the level based damage reduction we receive, it does not effect Resist rates. In WoW you could have a point... maybe, but a Resist in Aion means your spell missed flat out. If non melee had extremely high natural Evasion and if stacking evasion was actually proven to work, then maybe you would have a point, but alas... neither is true.

People are starting to "cap themselves" on my server. We have players who have leveled characters specifically to stay at 35 and have access to multiple rifts and gain AP to gain all the Archon/Guardian level 30 Gold Abyss gear. These players are difficult for 50's to take down because of their stats and resist rates. If you agree with this practice then more power to you. But a level 50 should have zero trouble taking down a solo level 35. Today I watched several try and take the pair of 35 assasins down and it was flat out ugly.

The problem with Magic Resist has been a known issue since before the Chinese OB. It has been ignored and needs to be addressed. Every class has its issues, but MR creates a huge void in PvP in the Abyss for the caster classes.

The OP was about suggestions to improve PvP and Siegewarfare. I gave the stuff that popped into my head at the time. Fixing a huge hole in the base gameplay and statistics would help both.

[Uzor]

4) Make defending fortresses versus the Dredgion worth defense credit.
A) Yes the fortress owning legion gets defense credit, but what about those people who showed up and defended the fortress from the Balaur? We get nothing for Balaur, but if we go kill a guard tower no where near the fortress we do?

I would like to point out that Balaur do count. On our server, we've completely defended against the Dredgion on the lower forts 2 times, including killing the Deity the Dredgion spawn, and I've received medals from it, even though my legion does not own it.

Hell, since Asmodians own the majority of the forts, Balur Teleport Raiders spawn almost every siege in every fort. So if the elyos don't attack, we kill those raiders. I've got 2 Gold Medals just killing the Teleport Raiders.

So yes, you still get defense credit for defending against the Balaur. You also get Defense Credit from killing the enemy outposts and anything else that gives AP.

[Priran]

The problem with Magic Resist has been a known issue since before the Chinese OB. It has been ignored and needs to be addressed. Every class has its issues, but MR creates a huge void in PvP in the Abyss for the caster classes.

MR is a player-created problem. No one wants to set M.Acc stones and stigmas, they want to keep their oneshots or their ability to CC chain people and maintain DPS high enough to kill them before they run out of CCs.

[Katlan]

"resisting melee" is called evasion, block, and parry.

if a lv.35 can resist everything you cast on them you need to update your gear more often than every 25 levels.

Actually block/parry/eva all have soft caps. Magic resist doesn't. And a full miragents / fenril's player shouldn't be able to resist 90% of a casters spells w/ a magic resist build. Originally ppl in Korea complained that casters were OP, so the dev's made magic resist worth something... ppl then complained they went to far so the dev's lowered the effects of magic resist... though u can still get that same effect if you decide to stack a few pieces of ur gear w/ MR.

Sorry... but a lv 50 cleric or chanter in full miragents can solo Medeus because the only time Medeus does dmg to that person is when it auto atk's lol.

and yes, MR is a player created problem. but you will never see a melee stack lolAcc in order to counter an eva stacked player, because even then eva has a soft cap. In order to counter a MR build your M.Acc needs to be w/in 200'ish~ of their MR. And your not gonna see many sorc's stack M.Acc, not because they like to insta gib ppl, but because w/o HP stones they have like 3k HP at 50.

[LurkaKitty]

I don`t have a whole lot to contribute except that I hate not being able to get into dredgion (instance) because everyone and their grandmother is at X fort siege. Because of this I like the fact that they last 30 minutes, since it`s only 30 minutes I have to wait before elyos queue, or 30 minutes I have to wait before someone from my legion will want to go to dredg. If the sieges happened more often though... perhaps people wouldn`t care as much about missing out on one siege to do a dredg. (Or maybe they would because zomgmoremedals.)

I guess I mostly agree with niwaar

3) Make Forts go vulnerable throughout the day not just in the 6hours between 4 and 10pm.
A) I do not favor the always on forts, but random and rotating times that include the entirety of the day and not limited to primetime would make things better

And it is fun when one of the upper forts randomly goes vulnerable during the middle of the day. I also kind of wish the sieges were more like sieges in L2. I think they could/should incorporate some things from L2 sieges to Aion like:

1) Give the conquering legion (or faction) a buff that`s always active. It doesn`t have to be too game breaking, something like +5% HP/MP/Fight time for owning a lower fortress and they could scale up for the upper ones. (+3% speed/flight speed for asteria/roah, +1% atk. speed/casting speed/p.crit for inner upper and something nuts for divine. I`m trying to be conservative in my examples.)

2) Signing up for the sieges. Though I`m not sure if I`d actually like this or not, just mentioning it for the sake of mentioning it.

I`d also like to say I really like the two mentioned ideas of making it so you can turn off all friend NPCs/PCs and leave enemies on as well as doubling the AP recieved if you`re in a group. Maybe tripling it if you`re in an alliance?

[Priran]

Sorry... but a lv 50 cleric or chanter in full miragents can solo Medeus because the only time Medeus does dmg to that person is when it auto atk's lol.

Sorry if I don't give a shit about what I could potentially do if I rolled Elyos instead.

and yes, MR is a player created problem. but you will never see a melee stack lolAcc in order to counter an eva stacked player, because even then eva has a soft cap. In order to counter a MR build your M.Acc needs to be w/in 200'ish~ of their MR. And your not gonna see many sorc's stack M.Acc, not because they like to insta gib ppl, but because w/o HP stones they have like 3k HP at 50.

That's absolute crap. MR has to be at least 1600 for it to be worthwhile at 50, which is about 500 over the average 50 Sorc's M.Acc.

A cursory glance at Aiononline shows the majority of the good sorcs on my server would have about 6k HP if they replaced their HP stones with M.Acc stones. They're also all using orbs.

[Gamble1]

That's absolute crap. MR has to be at least 1600 for it to be worthwhile at 50, which is about 500 over the average 50 Sorc's M.Acc.

A cursory glance at Aiononline shows the majority of the good sorcs on my server would have about 6k HP if they replaced their HP stones with M.Acc stones. They're also all using orbs.

Actually I'd say you should assume that a sorc has 1300 M acc because you aren't factoring things like food buff and chanter mantra. How much MR you need to remain effective is subjective of course.

Also, many people, myself for one, use an orb because that's what came along, not because we chose it. In cases of choice, say for fenril/miragent, it'd be rare to find someone using Fenris's Jewel instead of the tome.

Of course you could stack M. Acc to counter someone stacking MR, but that'd be totally gimping yourself against absolutely everyone else. For example, if you happened to fight against a cleric, who is stacking HP instead of MR, then you'd essentially be fighting without using any manastones at all.

[Katlan]

On Vaziel I've seen at least 5 Sorc's w the Miragents Jewel, yet to see the book lol

[Priran]

Of course you could stack M. Acc to counter someone stacking MR, but that'd be totally gimping yourself against absolutely everyone else. For example, if you happened to fight against a cleric, who is stacking HP instead of MR, then you'd essentially be fighting without using any manastones at all.

If a MR cleric runs into someone with Supplication of Focus or Oath of Accuracy, it's like they're not using any manastones at all, either. And I don't think MR helps knockback from Rangers or knockdowns from Glad/Templar, so against those classes a HP setup would be more useful.

If MR clerics were as common as DP burning sorcs and SMs that fear people into elites, people would change their setups to accommodate. Rather, it just sounds like those 2 classes are upset about not being able to reliably gank every single class in the game.

[niwaar]

1) Give the conquering legion (or faction) a buff that`s always active. It doesn`t have to be too game breaking, something like +5% HP/MP/Fight time for owning a lower fortress and they could scale up for the upper ones. (+3% speed/flight speed for asteria/roah, +1% atk. speed/casting speed/p.crit for inner upper and something nuts for divine. I`m trying to be conservative in my examples.)

I think thats what the Fortress Artifact is supposed to do. There are already built-in passive benefits for the legion owning the fortress that have to do with taxes, as well as the defense bonuses.

Personally, I would rather see some sort of "positive/negative" buff that got stronger for the entire faction the longer the fortress was controlled. Say a XP/AP bonus while on the Fortresses island that scaled upward for every time the fortress was successfully defended. All the while, lengthening the timer for the Guardian Deity's "enrage" with each defense. Start it at 30 minutes and each time the fort is defended add 5 minutes. This would make the fortress more likely to swap hands.

2) Signing up for the sieges. Though I`m not sure if I`d actually like this or not, just mentioning it for the sake of mentioning it.

They did this with Wintergrasp in WoW because of the exact reasons we have real issues with sieges now... lag. The problem is that WG is every few hours and server populations are huge compared to Aion. This would basically change PvP in Aion from "Open World" into "instanced".

I`d also like to say I really like the two mentioned ideas of making it so you can turn off all friend NPCs/PCs and leave enemies on as well as doubling the AP received if you`re in a group. Maybe tripling it if you`re in an alliance?

I don't think you need to double the AP in an alliance. Give it a boost for each party in your alliance maybe? If it was a flat out "alliance" people would get 7 people to get the Ally bonus.

The biggest thing I think that could help would be to tweak the "ownership" of fortresses to the total contribution done by your legion and not the total contribution done by the highest contributing alliance.

Sorry if I don't give a shit about what I could potentially do if I rolled Elyos instead.

Sorry if I don't give a shit that you are Asmodian. It was an example of what can be done in PvE because MR is so high. Oh and its not an Elyos only boss. Its not like I wasn't running around with Masto drops as an Elyos. Medeus has been killed by rifting Asmodians just like your bosses have been killed by Elyos.

That's absolute crap. MR has to be at least 1600 for it to be worthwhile at 50, which is about 500 over the average 50 Sorc's M.Acc.

A cursory glance at Aiononline shows the majority of the good sorcs on my server would have about 6k HP if they replaced their HP stones with M.Acc stones. They're also all using orbs.

No, what is absolute crap is your need to troll here. MR is a problem. You admit it yourself, when you said it was a "player-created problem". Yet you are wrong about that. The Korean Devs made it have its current strength. Oh and ... 6k HP? Are you kidding me? Using M.Acc stones in a PvP set would be akin to wasting every Manastone slot in your gear.

If MR clerics were as common as DP burning sorcs and SMs that fear people into elites, people would change their setups to accommodate. Rather, it just sounds like those 2 classes are upset about not being able to reliably gank every single class in the game.

They can gank every single class in the game. Your argument does nothing to speak against the fact that MR is a broken mechanic. It has its place, but it needs to be reduced in effectiveness or given a soft cap like Evasion, Block, Parry.

Just as a side note, when I began the comment about MR being OP it was not referring to a Cleric. It was referring to a Sin. Being able to Resist whatever you cant twist makes a sin pretty much unkillable by any magic based class.

[Corwen]

Just an idea, but why not have a macro to swap in pieces with magic accuracy for those you know have high m.res? This way you don't have to give up on HP or m.boost completely, but can still close the gap against those stacking lots of resist when needed. People seem to be in the mindset that you can only carry around and use 1 set of gear.

As for the level 50s getting resisted on 35 sins frequently. This is probably what is to blame, because I see no other explanation for this:
Focused Evasion
Aethertwisting

[Priran]

Sorry if I don't give a shit that you are Asmodian. It was an example of what can be done in PvE because MR is so high.

The M.Acc of a Lv.45 named is so low a Lv.50 with a specialized build can solo it? GASP

THIS IS GAME BREAKING. HIT THE NERF BUTTON, ONLY SORC/SM GET TO SOLO ELITE OR ABOVE MOBS

No, what is absolute crap is your need to troll here. MR is a problem. You admit it yourself, when you said it was a "player-created problem". Yet you are wrong about that. The Korean Devs made it have its current strength. Oh and ... 6k HP? Are you kidding me? Using M.Acc stones in a PvP set would be akin to wasting every Manastone slot in your gear.

MR is a specialized build meant to counter mages. If it's such a problem for mages, the opportunity exists for them to make a build that makes stacking MR pointless. But since it isn't a huge problem, but rather the delicious whinings of fotm kiddies, mages keep stacking MB and HP so they can farm AP from people who don't get an opportunity to fight back, and whine until that includes chain wearers.

They can gank every single class in the game.

Right, because 1 instant chain that does maybe 2k every 16 seconds, 1 decent dot with a 2s cast time, and 1 chain that starts with a 3s cast and ends with a 15m range, 1k damage nuke 20% of the time is totally the same as pushing your Curse of Fire button and directing your target to the nearest Veteran Protector/Fortress Mage/whatever.

[niwaar]

Just an idea, but why not have a macro to swap in pieces with magic accuracy for those you know have high m.res? This way you don't have to give up on HP or m.boost completely, but can still close the gap against those stacking lots of resist when needed. People seem to be in the mindset that you can only carry around and use 1 set of gear.

Unfortunately, Aion is not XI. Its not often reasonable to have multiple sets of gear like that. Its certainly possible to do so. Casters should always have a Macc weapon to swap at the very least, but thats not enough.

As for the level 50s getting resisted on 35 sins frequently. This is probably what is to blame, because I see no other explanation for this:
Focused Evasion
Aethertwisting

I would agree there to some degree, but cant twist and FE everything.

[Katlan]

HOW ABOUT DEM FORT SIEGES

[Priran]

The meeting ended 3 hours ago brah

[Gamble1]

If a MR cleric runs into someone with Supplication of Focus or Oath of Accuracy, it's like they're not using any manastones at all, either. And I don't think MR helps knockback from Rangers or knockdowns from Glad/Templar, so against those classes a HP setup would be more useful.

If MR clerics were as common as DP burning sorcs and SMs that fear people into elites, people would change their setups to accommodate. Rather, it just sounds like those 2 classes are upset about not being able to reliably gank every single class in the game.

Yeah but supplication of focus lasts 20 seconds, which definitely isn't enough time to kill someone who has half a brain.

Of course HP would be more helpful against melee, but MR isn't totally useless like M acc would be. With MR, you could resist the slowing effect of Inescapable judgment, or sleep/silence arrow. With M acc, if you have more M acc than the opponent MR, then it doesn't matter if you have 1 over or 1,000 over. Since mages typically have more M acc than any class's MR, M acc would only be useful against those stacking MR.

It's not about reliably able to gank... it's more like, I couldn't kill an afk MR stacker standing in the middle of nowhere if I wanted to. No other build in the game is such an "effective" counter. I mean, there is no way you could make some build to totally destroy rangers, gladiators, etc

[Priran]

Balancing every class against another in 1v1 is impossible.

In a group, stacking MR means the Cleric can't just be perma CC'd and saved for later.

[Trichocyst]

I'd like to see a way to trigger a vulnerability. Like if you capture all the artifacts it cycles to vulnerable next time or something similar.

[Gamble1]

Balancing every class against another in 1v1 is impossible.

Of course it's impossible; I'm not saying mages should be able to defeat MR stackers, but the disadvantage is beyond exceptional. It's a stupid fight that is predictable and requires no skill on the part of the MR guy and disregards any skill on the part of the mage.

The imbalance here is gross, and unlike any other part of this game.

[Gryffes]

ohnoes, shadowpriest+warlock moaning about shadow resist gear in arena, it's wow all over again.