Big Bomb solo

[drwaffles]

I think you are delusional to say that lack of windower doesn't make it harder...

I never said it didn't make it harder, I just don't see why someone should be given more credit because they're at a disadvantage. As for the rest of the replies, I have better things to do with my time than break down the same flawed arguments and constantly repeat my actual point over and over again in the hopes that it'll eventually penetrate your skulls and you'll stop trying to argue against the points your lack of reading comprehension has led you to believe I'm trying to make.

[Charismatic]

I never said it didn't make it harder, I just don't see why someone should be given more credit because they're at a disadvantage. As for the rest of the replies, I have better things to do with my time than break down the same flawed arguments and constantly repeat my actual point over and over again in the hopes that it'll eventually penetrate your skulls and you'll stop trying to argue against the points your lack of reading comprehension has led you to believe I'm trying to make.

The whole thing that makes solos impressive is that you're at a disadvantage.
The more restrictions you have on you, the more impressive it is.

Takes more skill to reach the same end with less tools at your disposal.

[drwaffles]

Avesta's technique was not to run him out of MP before 2hr, simply because he started using Bio3 from the start.

One last thing: try not to talk about things you don't know about. His video description clearly states that his strategy was to run Suzaku out of MP before it used Chainspell. According to what he says it took about 40 minutes to run out of MP (which seems about right in my experience). Bio III alone should not do enough damage to trigger Chainspell before it runs out. After it runs dry you should start trying to land Poison II and nuking with Water III.

[Cairthenn]

You sound like a moron seeking for attention because you can solo NMs that have already been soloed plenty of times. Noone cares, avesta was the first, and that's the only thing that matters.

Do you remember the name of the 7th LS that beat PW and do you see them brag about how the first LS sucks because they kill so much faster or their strategy is better because they use less people ? No.

Congrats on soloing better than avesta_2006, on a NM that is nothing but a waste of time. Fire bomblet 1m, ding.

Excuse me, dumbass, I was criticizing the moron endorsing Avesta as though he was some sort of prodigy, so you can remove your uninformed and clearly linguistically challeneged self from the board and get off my ass. Thanks.

[drwaffles]

The whole thing that makes solos impressive is that you're at a disadvantage.
The more restrictions you have on you, the more impressive it is.

Takes more skill to reach the same end with less tools at your disposal.

But it's not the same end if, ultimately, he's less efficient in part because of that disadvantage. Yes, the mob dies, but that's not impressive any more. I, too, could solo things on PS2 if I really wanted to, it would just take longer and that's about it for most fights. That's not to say the fact that he plays on PS2 is the sole reason he's not as efficient as a lot of other people, but it definitely factors into that. Well, actually, his latest solos (including Suzaku) were done on PC but, as far as I can tell, without any 3PP, so that's by the by.

[Charismatic]

But it's not the same end if, ultimately, he's less efficient in part because of that disadvantage. Yes, the mob dies, but that's not impressive any more. I, too, could solo things on PS2 if I really wanted to, it would just take longer and that's about it for most fights. That's not to say the fact that he plays on PS2 is the sole reason he's not as efficient as a lot of other people, but it definitely factors into that. Well, actually, his latest solos (including Suzaku) were done on PC but, as far as I can tell, without any 3PP, so that's by the by.

I doubt you even could solo things on the PS2 if you tried but that's not what the argument is about.
And yes, soloing things on ps2 and without third party tools is far more impressive than doing them with the tools.

...and the end is the same, the mob is dead and drops are collected.

[Cairthenn]

Also, I did Suzaku on my first solo attempt (given that I had duod and triod it before hand and knew what to expect). The only RDM solo videos I've ever watched were Fenrir Prime and Zipacna (when I was first learning) and Voluptuous Vivian.

PS2 is more impressive because you get less gear swaps. About it.

[drwaffles]

And yes, soloing things on ps2 and without third party tools is far more impressive than doing them with the tools.

Let's look at the third party tools that are actually of any use whilst soloing, then. Distance is helpful for kited solos, but lol @ those. Extended macros are obviously helpful in that you don't need to hit 2-3 macros for certain spells. Yarnball doesn't really help at all any more with the addition of Composure (unless you manually change it), not that it was particularly useful to begin with. Recast just means you don't need to hit a macro to see your important recast timers. Anything else? Shit like shadow counters or Cancel don't count because you'd have to be retarded to need to use those anyway. 3rd party programs don't help nearly as much as you think when soloing. I mean, if hitting a couple of extra buttons is the difference between "meh" and "amazing" to you then I'm not sure what to say.

...and the end is the same, the mob is dead and drops are collected.

But that's the whole point of this argument... it's how you perform during the fight that gives an indication of your proficiency. Any twathead with a decent Bind setup can solo Zip in an hour, but only someone confident in their abilities can manage it in 20 minutes without breaking a sweat.

[Konda]

But that's the whole point of this argument... it's how you perform during the fight that gives an indication of your proficiency. Any twathead with a decent Bind setup can solo Zip in an hour, but only someone confident in their abilities can manage it in 20 minutes without breaking a sweat.

haha, not heard that word in ages

[Charismatic]

Let's look at the third party tools that are actually of any use whilst soloing, then. Distance is helpful for kited solos, but lol @ those. Extended macros are obviously helpful in that you don't need to hit 2-3 macros for certain spells. Yarnball doesn't really help at all any more with the addition of Composure (unless you manually change it), not that it was particularly useful to begin with. Recast just means you don't need to hit a macro to see your important recast timers. Anything else? Shit like shadow counters or Cancel don't count because you'd have to be retarded to need to use those anyway. 3rd party programs don't help nearly as much as you think when soloing. I mean, if hitting a couple of extra buttons is the difference between "meh" and "amazing" to you then I'm not sure what to say.



But that's the whole point of this argument... it's how you perform during the fight that gives an indication of your proficiency. Any twathead with a decent Bind setup can solo Zip in an hour, but only someone confident in their abilities can manage it in 20 minutes without breaking a sweat.

A Lv. 99 Sora can beat Larxene Data in 13 seconds, it takes a Lv. 1 Sora almost 5min to do the same without using Reflect or drives or limits or any of the things the Lv. 99 guy used.
Which is more impressive?

Not the same game but the same sentiment.

[drwaffles]

A Lv. 99 Sora can beat Larxene Data in 13 seconds, it takes a Lv. 1 Sora almost 5min to do the same without using Reflect or drives or limits or any of the things the Lv. 99 guy used.
Which is more impressive?

Not the same game but the same sentiment.

I don't know what that entails, but it certainly sounds a hell of a lot more extreme than PC vs. PS2.

[Charismatic]

It's not just a couple of button presses either, it's a complete change in focus.
You must stay on top of all of these things and pay more attention while being faster hitting those macros to produce the same results on PS2 as you would on a PC with third party tools.
You have to keep this up for quite some time on the longer solos.


If I have a red light telling me exactly when to press Alt + 3, it's a bit different than actually having to keep it in my head and think about it every few minutes over the course of an hour (yarnball).



And you're right about composure changing the game, but that's exactly what I was talking about when I said you can't compare RDM solos now to Avesta then.
There are tools and knowledge and equipment available now that was not when he fought some of these enemies.

[drwaffles]

Except that Yarnball really doesn't help much at all when soloing. Yarnball is good for Haste/Refresh cycles when playing support. Hell, with the addition of Composure I don't even use Yarnball at all any more for soloing.

[Julian]

But that's the whole point of this argument... it's how you perform during the fight that gives an indication of your proficiency. Any twathead with a decent Bind setup can solo Zip in an hour, but only someone confident in their abilities can manage it in 20 minutes without breaking a sweat.

20 minutes to kill Zip is still pretty damn gimp

[Charismatic]

with the addition of Composure I don't even use Yarnball at all any more for soloing.

Exactly.

[drwaffles]

20 minutes to kill Zip is still pretty damn gimp

Well considering a good RDM's Convert timer should be 8 minutes 20 seconds and Zip takes about three pool's worth of MP to kill 20 minutes is a respectable time assuming you don't 2hr it.

[Wrish]

But it's not the same end if, ultimately, he's less efficient in part because of that disadvantage.

You can't compare ends with different starting points.

The most impressive performance is the one that stretches a single aspect to the extreme, i.e. don't half-ass it if you want fame. Whether it's using maxed support and DDs to kill it in a record 30 seconds, or using no support on a thought-to-be-impossible job combo to solo it, you'll have something worth seeing.

One last thing: try not to talk about things you don't know about. His video description clearly states that his strategy was to run Suzaku out of MP before it used Chainspell. According to what he says it took about 40 minutes to run out of MP (which seems about right in my experience). Bio III alone should not do enough damage to trigger Chainspell before it runs out. After it runs dry you should start trying to land Poison II and nuking with Water III.

On rereading, I stand corrected. However, this is part of strategy, not execution. To say that someone executed it faster while bypassing a strategic component is not to say execution was better. On that note, are there good examples of handling Suzy chainspell? I can't but think of luck's role. If it sticks with aga 3 and doesn't want to use Burn, how will you live?

[Feedmenow]

If you're playing on PS2/360 on RDM 1-75 then you're probably going to have a 3 minute cycle ingrained in your muscle memory for leveling RDM 41-75, meriting it, and then practicing soloing before doing something a difficult NM solo. Why does this discussion even matter, fuck.

[Charismatic]

If you're playing on PS2/360 on RDM 1-75 then you're probably going to have a 3 minute cycle ingrained in your muscle memory for leveling RDM 41-75, meriting it, and then practicing soloing before doing something a difficult NM solo. Why does this discussion even matter, fuck.

But he's not one of those. He's PC player with 3p tools out the yang.

[Julian]

Well considering a good RDM's Convert timer should be 8 minutes 20 seconds and Zip takes about three pool's worth of MP to kill 20 minutes is a respectable time assuming you don't 2hr it.

Only took me 2 >.> and not the whole 3 mp pools either. Pulled before protect/shell, and only nuked twice after the 2nd convert. Was the first and only time I fought him either :/ (15min, no 2hour, could easily do it in less I think. Ignoring the mp wasted on protect/shell, and a bliz3 to kill the detector, could easily do it with just one convert.)

Also, in the subject of draining Suzaku's MP, anyone remember when one of the acceptable Kirin strategies was to make him run out of MP before damaging him? 2h spamming aspir + 2h to kill was fun times