Senate Special Election in MA

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Funnier than this thread, is the democrats (no doubt blue dogs) saying that they've been too far left and they need to get back to the center.

Funnier than that is there is no real 'center.' It's a loaded word for the millions of idiots in the country.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

My last paragraph. The latter are all constitutional. When the govt. takes money for unconstitutional purposes, it's theft. That's my view of it.

Where in the constitution can you derive that line of thought. Please enlighten me.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Where in the constitution can you derive that line of thought. Please enlighten me.

Where does it say it's unconstitutional? The 10th amendment.

Where does it say "theft" in the constitution? Nowhere.

[quannum]

back to the center.

this should be shopped into back to the future, with evan bayh and someone else

[Demosthenes11]

Funnier than that is there is no real 'center.' It's a loaded word for the millions of idiots in the country.

ya, its not possible to be bi-conceptual just as every cognitive science experiment has shown

[Rhinox]

Where does it say it's unconstitutional? The 10th amendment.

Where does it say "theft" in the constitution? Nowhere.

Article 1 section 8

we gonna start this shit again?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Article 1 section 8

we gonna start this shit again?

Lets go there.

I say intent governs. You say ignore intent, or something with the same effect as ignore intent, right?

If intent matters we have a limited govt. and my theory works.

If you ignore intent, then there is nothing to limit the power of the fed. govt. as they are listed in the constitution. For an example, let's look at every totalitarians favorite clause, the general welfare clause. Having a BMI over 35 is bad for your welfare. If we ignore intent, then congress could pass a law that says, "anyone who has a BMI over 35 goes to jail until they reduce it to a healthy level." Lets look at the commerce clause. Is it congress that has the power to regulate interstate commerce? If we ignore intent congress could pass a law that says all t-shirts sold in the U.S. must be pink. If we ignore intent then the constitution is worthless.

Unfortunately this subject is Con Law II so I probably can't give you a better answer than that until next semester.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Where does it say it's unconstitutional? The 10th amendment.

Where does it say "theft" in the constitution? Nowhere.

What does a public option impose on the state? What does financial healthcare reform impose on the state?

First your argument was all about free market and corporations are not bad. Now it's about the 10th amendment, which doesn't even apply.

Remember now, all I asked was how a state government is different from federal government if they're both taxing, and how application of those dollars to services exactly like what we have now is theft.

Kitchen sink attempt is failing hard bud.

[Rhinox]

how about them death panels and the SEIU death camps obama is setting up.

Go ahead and speculate about what Congress intends to do. What ever floats your boat.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

ya, its not possible to be bi-conceptual just as every cognitive science experiment has shown

Again an ignorant statement from someone that thinks the world is defined by two party lines. Bi-conceptual? Get over yourself moran.

There's no center because we have a two party system. You can't write center policy because it always exempts or expresses interest in something that that undermines the policy because of the way the two parties are lobbied and who they're lobbied by.

[Kuya]

ya, its not possible to be bi-conceptual just as every cognitive science experiment has shown

The terms center and moderate in the context of politics are just empty words that people use to make themselves feel like they're saying or believe in something profound or intellectual. It is the equivalent of the middle ground fallacy. It's a given that most people may not always believe in everything that could be called liberal or conservative, especially the latter. More accurately, when speaking of politicians, the terms moderate and center are supposed to inspire the image of a person who is prudent and down to earth, so it's useful for the usual image construction politicians need to use for their campaigns, and more concretely, a moderate or a center politician may just be a person who happens to choose to support a specific issue out of mere conveniance rather than actual belief (if we take the blue dogs as an example).

In on itself, the terms moderate and center in politics means nothing.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

What does a public option impose on the state? What does financial healthcare reform impose on the state?

Don't know, don't care. It's irrelevant to why I oppose it.

First your argument was all about free market and corporations are not bad. Now it's about the 10th amendment, which doesn't even apply.

It's about the 10th amendment b/c you asked. And it does apply b/c "powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states by the constitution of the United States are reserved to the states or the people."

No where does it say the govt. can provide health insurance.

Remember now, all I asked was how a state government is different from federal government if they're both taxing, and how application of those dollars to services exactly like what we have now is theft.

Kitchen sink attempt is failing hard bud.

No, all you asked is what theft was. Nothing about the difference b/w state and federal govt, which is irrelevant to my definition.

[Rhinox]

Don't know, don't care. It's irrelevant to why I oppose it.



It's about the 10th amendment b/c you asked. And it does apply b/c "powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states by the constitution of the United States are reserved to the states or the people."

No where does it say the govt. can provide health insurance.



No, all you asked is what theft was. Nothing about the difference b/w state and federal govt, which is irrelevant to my definition.

Article 1 section 8

[Demosthenes11]

it really depends on your thoughts on "middle" though.
does middle mean the center between liberal and conservative or does it mean the ability to have beliefs on both side of the isle. i think people are taking the term way too literally.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

it really depends on your thoughts on "middle" though.
does middle mean the center between liberal and conservative or does it mean the ability to have beliefs on both side of the isle. i think people are taking the term way too literally.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Article 1 section 8

You mean this little guy?

The Congress shall have power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes; ”


The Commerce Clause Power is often amplified by the Necessary and Proper Clause which states this Commerce Clause power, and all of the other enumerated powers, may be implemented by the power "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof." The Necessary and Proper Clause is the final clause of Article I, section 8. It must be noted, however, that the Constitution is more clear about the role of the Congress vis-a-vis interstate commerce in Article I, Section 9, Clauses 1, 5 and 6, though the interpretation of Section 8 and Section 9 could depend on the circumstances presented by specific cases.

Nah, can't be this little guy.

[Yugl]

If those bills were being voted on today, they would be in the same trouble Obamacare is in. Now that they have tens of millions of Americans getting $500 pieces of gum through these programs, nobody can afford to give it up. Not one of them would respond, boy, that's a great deal!

I haven't read up to page 12 (May or may not), but I agree with this notion. From a governance perspective, the PAYG system is very demanding, yet also rewarding in some sense. The most politically active are the elderly, so in that way, you gain political capital (Taxing = Damages the young and working class = goodies for the old). At the same time, it places a burden on the system since it (1) leaves responsibility with the government and (2) places stress on government planning when odd situations arise (Baby boomers). What most post-golden era social systems strive to achieve is a system in which people invest their money for themselves. That is, they invest much like a bond (I don't know the details of how those work, so forgive my comparison if it's not up correct). Essentially, you would gamble your money by investing it and hoping to get paid off in the future. For government, this reduces stress because (1) "the market" is responsible for your returns on investment, not government (2) planning and coordinate is less complex. That, of course, is not to suggest this is the system we will adopt, but it is one that governments are looking to switch over to.

[Kuya]

it really depends on your thoughts on "middle" though.
does middle mean the center between liberal and conservative or does it mean the ability to have beliefs on both side of the isle. i think people are taking the term way too literally.

The latter is a given, especially considering that modern conservatives in America believe strongly in capitalism (a conception developed by liberalism). The true use of the terms is political (as in, for politicians), otherwise it has no significant use.

[Darus Grey]

What's it matter anyways? America only has one type of politics anyways...conservative.

We don't even have a liberal party, lol. We have a conservative party and a slightly less conservative party.

You have to go to euroland to see REAL liberals in the wild.

We can't be centrist because we don't even have two opposing sides.

[Demosthenes11]

The latter is a given, especially considering that modern conservatives in America believe strongly in capitalism (a conception developed by liberalism). The true use of the terms is political (as in, for politicians), otherwise it has no significant use.

you say that after hanging out with my parents. tons of people can only think in terms of a conservative and are not capable of thinking on the other side