Star Trek 2: Into Darkness (May 16, 2013)

[Qalbert]

because they fucking are helmets?

[TummieGaruda]

because they fucking are helmets?

Yes they are, but I mean why cover what is a Klingon's natural prominent feature. Their ridged foreheads is what make them recognizable and now they are running around in battle helmets with the ridges on them...

[Qalbert]

[Jakson]

I wonder if they'll ever have some of the Klingons take off their helmets. The whole Eugenics war and augment virus stuff shouldn't have been affected by the splitting timeline, and there were supposedly millions of smooth-headed Klingons by the mid-2200s when the bulk of ST and ST:ID take place, so the helmets could easily be Klingons attempting to make up for their lacking ridges. That being said, I doubt it because I assume most people don't know the retcon...I mean explanation later series made for ridgeless douche Klingons (DS9's episode Trials and Tribbleations), and taking off ridged helmets to show smooth heads would probably confuse people barely aware of the series.

[Tyrath]

^ As a new movie fan I have no idea what you're talking about lol. They might do it as an easter egg for the older fans.

[Takedown3]

itt: ppl who don't watch star trek

[Titanss]

The New Generation count?

[Qalbert]

The New Generation count?

[Titanss]

that was awesome

[TummieGaruda]

I will admit that I did not watch much of the original series, but I did watch the original movies when I was a kid. I heard there were smooth head Klingons in the TV series but their appearance was changed in the original movies and beyond to have ridged foreheads. That's the look that most people recognize and identify them having. I understand that this is Kirks generation and that's when they had smooth heads, but I would rather they had the ridged look that we are all familiar with.

[Pikarya]

itt: ppl who don't watch star trek

This whole goddamn thread.

[Vandalhart]

I will admit that I did not watch much of the original series, but I did watch the original movies when I was a kid. I heard there were smooth head Klingons in the TV series but their appearance was changed in the original movies and beyond to have ridged foreheads. That's the look that most people recognize and identify them having. I understand that this is Kirks generation and that's when they had smooth heads, but I would rather they had the ridged look that we are all familiar with.

The smooth headedness was explained in Enterprise.

Basically Nonian Soong (sorry for horrible spelling) or his ancestor started experimenting with gene therapy. The klingons stole it and attempted to use it for their own benefit. It basically combined their DNA with Humans and they lost their cranial ridges. I don't know if they explained why it would fix itself so quickly compared to the seasons of Star Trek VS the movies.

I could be waaaay off base. I only saw a few episodes of Enterprise and I caught the end of this story arc so someone can feel free to clear up any inaccuracies in my explanation.

[Selamis]

The smooth headedness was explained in Enterprise.

Basically Nonian Soong (sorry for horrible spelling) or his ancestor started experimenting with gene therapy. The klingons stole it and attempted to use it for their own benefit. It basically combined their DNA with Humans and they lost their cranial ridges. I don't know if they explained why it would fix itself so quickly compared to the seasons of Star Trek VS the movies.

I could be waaaay off base. I only saw a few episodes of Enterprise and I caught the end of this story arc so someone can feel free to clear up any inaccuracies in my explanation.

Wait, Enterprise took place before the original Star Trek, I think like 100 or 150 years beforehand iirc, and Dr. Soong created Data and Lore, during the time period of TNG, something like 20 years before TNG started, and TNG was another few decades (I wanna say 70?) after the original show time frame, if I remember the time frame from when Data was found and rescued after the Crystalline Entity destroyed the word he was found on and enrolled in Star Fleet...so it would have had to been one of Soong's ancestors to create this gene therapy, no?

[Tyrath]

ITT: Apparently only old school Star Trek fans are allowed to like the new movie.

[ronin sparthos]

I'll just leave this here:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon_augment_virus

The Klingon augment virus was a modified form of Levodian flu that threatened to wipe out the Klingon race in the mid-22nd century. It was inadvertently created by Klingon researchers who were attempting to bio-engineer enhanced warriors using DNA from genetically-modified human embryos left over from Earth's Eugenics Wars.

In 2154, Klingon scientists working under the direction of Antaak recovered several Augment embryos from a hijacked Bird-of-Prey destroyed in orbit of Qu'Vat colony during the Augment Crisis. Fearing that Humans could overwhelm the Empire if they moved to staffing their ships with Augments, a project was set up to attempt to create their own Augments to counter the perceived threat.

The effort failed dreadfully. The Augments created did develop enhanced strength and intelligence, but they also began to show Human characteristics, from the blatant to the subtle. These included personality alterations and loss of the characteristic forehead ridges. Ultimately, the subjects died agonizing deaths when the incompatible DNA resulted in neural system breakdown. While working to stabilize the process of augmentation, the scientific team augmented a test subject who was, unknown to the team, also infected with Levodian flu. The flu virus in some manner incorporated the augment DNA, turning a carefully controlled experiment into an epidemic. As the unstable augmentation process always killed the subject, this epidemic threatened the Klingon race with extinction.

The virus spread very rapidly, infecting millions within months. One of the first planets struck was N'Vak colony. The Klingons attempted to capture Doctor Arik Soong to help develop a cure, but their efforts were thwarted by Soong's incarceration in a high security detention. They then moved to kidnap Doctor Phlox, using Rigelian intermediaries and the assistance of Section 31 agents. Phlox was forced to work with Antaak to find a cure. However, the Klingon High Council was unwilling to wait, and dispatched a fleet to annihilate the infected planets, starting with N'Vak colony. Afterwards it set course to Qu'Vat colony. (ENT: "Affliction")

In 2154, Klingon scientists working under the direction of Antaak recovered several Augment embryos from a hijacked Bird-of-Prey destroyed in orbit of Qu'Vat colony during the Augment Crisis. Fearing that Humans could overwhelm the Empire if they moved to staffing their ships with Augments, a project was set up to attempt to create their own Augments to counter the perceived threat.

The effort failed dreadfully. The Augments created did develop enhanced strength and intelligence, but they also began to show Human characteristics, from the blatant to the subtle. These included personality alterations and loss of the characteristic forehead ridges. Ultimately, the subjects died agonizing deaths when the incompatible DNA resulted in neural system breakdown. While working to stabilize the process of augmentation, the scientific team augmented a test subject who was, unknown to the team, also infected with Levodian flu. The flu virus in some manner incorporated the augment DNA, turning a carefully controlled experiment into an epidemic. As the unstable augmentation process always killed the subject, this epidemic threatened the Klingon race with extinction.

The virus spread very rapidly, infecting millions within months. One of the first planets struck was N'Vak colony. The Klingons attempted to capture Doctor Arik Soong to help develop a cure, but their efforts were thwarted by Soong's incarceration in a high security detention. They then moved to kidnap Doctor Phlox, using Rigelian intermediaries and the assistance of Section 31 agents. Phlox was forced to work with Antaak to find a cure. However, the Klingon High Council was unwilling to wait, and dispatched a fleet to annihilate the infected planets, starting with N'Vak colony. Afterwards it set course to Qu'Vat colony. (ENT: "Affliction")

When it became clear to the research team on Qu'vat colony that it would take weeks to develop a cure, stabilizing the augment virus became the researcher's primary concern. Their efforts proved successful; a method was developed that stabilized the process in the early stages – after the cranial ridges had dissolved and some minor neural re-ordering had occurred (which caused personality changes), but before the virus became contagious, enhanced augment abilities and fatal neural pathway breakdown formed.

Eventually, Admiral Krell convinced the High Council to call off their sterilization program of destroying the infected planets. The cure was distributed throughout the Empire. Because afflicted Klingons' DNA had been altered by the virus, the Human appearance and genetic traits were passed onto the descendants of the infected. Initially there were millions of Klingons who had to live with the disfigurement. (ENT: "Divergence")

A group of Klingons descended from those infected with the augment virus in 2267

In 2154, Antaak and Laneth feared that Klingons without ridges would become outcasts, lose their positions and would no longer have a place in the Empire. (ENT: "Divergence") However, by the 2260s, affected Klingons served as the captains and crews of front-line starships in the Klingon Defense Force. (Star Trek: The Original Series) Later on, some of them even achieved the title of Dahar Master and earned their statues among the Hall of Heroes on Qo'noS. (DS9: "Blood Oath", "The Sword of Kahless")

By the 24th century, knowledge of Klingons with smooth foreheads had been generally forgotten by the population of the United Federation of Planets. Also, the reason for Klingons having smooth foreheads a hundred years earlier was not widely known outside the Empire. When asked by Miles O'Brien and Julian Bashir, Worf simply gave the answer "we don't discuss it with outsiders", though Bashir immediately suspected viral mutation to be the cause. (DS9: "Trials and Tribble-ations")

Honestly I think Gene Roddenberry said it best: The entire explanation of the ridgeless Klingons is unnecessary and it's best to have just imagined them with the ridges all along.

We know the only reason they didn't have ridges in the TOS was because of budgetary restraints / makeup limitations. It's 2013, just introduce the ridges and avoid the pointless banter.

[6souls]

a better look at the helmet version

http://geektyrant.com/storage/0999-p...gon642012.jpeg

Both images of the New Klingons in this thread are from the deleted scenes from the first movie, but will carry over to the new film.

[Jakson]

Wait, Enterprise took place before the original Star Trek, I think like 100 or 150 years beforehand iirc, and Dr. Soong created Data and Lore, during the time period of TNG, something like 20 years before TNG started, and TNG was another few decades (I wanna say 70?) after the original show time frame, if I remember the time frame from when Data was found and rescued after the Crystalline Entity destroyed the word he was found on and enrolled in Star Fleet...so it would have had to been one of Soong's ancestors to create this gene therapy, no?

It was his Uncle, I think, Arik Soong. His arc in Enterprise only discussed, IIRC, how Arik was a supporter of DNA manipulation but wasn't directly involved in the Eugenics Wars (1993-1996), as he wasn't born yet. He had been in trouble because DNA manipulation had been outlawed and he worked with the science anyway. Also, not all Klingons lacked ridges. The story that Enterprise (and bits from DS9) put out were that while millions were struck ridgeless, they were still allowed in places of respect, such as the Klingon Defense Force. The episode(s?) where Klingons are shown in TOS are supposed to be crews entirely afflicted with the Flu/Virus thing Ronin quoted. But like the bit about Rodenberry, all of it is kinda dumb, but it is a bit fun seeing a story woven around what was really just budgeting/foresight problems.

What doesn't help is Data's creator, Noonien Soong, has a similar name to Khan, whose middle and last names are Noonien Singh.

[Kaslo]

a better look at the helmet version

http://geektyrant.com/storage/0999-p...gon642012.jpeg

Both images of the New Klingons in this thread are from the deleted scenes from the first movie, but will carry over to the new film.

All I see is Bane...

[Selamis]

What doesn't help is Data's creator, Noonien Soong, has a similar name to Khan, whose middle and last names are Noonien Singh.

Oh shit, never even caught on to that all this time lol.

[Deftscythe]

As a guy who has watched all the series at least once, I try to ignore any god damn thing that happened during Enterprise. DS9 had the only reference that was necessary to the changeover in Klingon appearance.