Dengeki Games Interview

[Lovian]

Always thought it was stupid that anytime players ~aga'd we'd get hate on other mobs in XI but any time the mobs did, it didn't hit anyone but us. I understand why but it doesn't make sense...

It was brought in as an anti MPK patch, used to be fun getting a goblin to bomb toss next to rmt in and wiping them out. I realise its not realistic but it was necessary to stop it from being abused.

[Lucavi]

Always thought it was stupid that anytime players ~aga'd we'd get hate on other mobs in XI but any time the mobs did, it didn't hit anyone but us. I understand why but it doesn't make sense...

PS2 Limitations is what my cynical side wants to say, but its probably just either a programming oversight or (what I'm more inclined to believe) a planned concept based on the "You, the protagonist, vs. the world!" concept that is in so many games.

You and anyone you play with constitutes the "heroes" of the game, and as such, cannot hurt one another unless its PVP - lets call you "team 1". On the other side is EVERYTHING ELSE not classified as a hero - they're "team 2". Team 2 cannot hurt any other member of team 2, unless charmed or confused by team 1, even if two members of team 2 literally hate each other.

Its one reason why I've grown very tired of "you vs. the world" games these days. The logic is single-minded and dull, and it is seriously the most unrealistic concept that games can insert.

Companies need to be a little bolder than the black and white combat systems they churn out constantly. One of the only games that kinda-sorta gets the message is the fallout series, which at least gives you the opportunity to work with and against other people in a matter of seconds, although they still do it wrong by having every "enemy" type of NPC fighting strictly against you.

Although you can work side-by-side with a scavenger in killing some raiders, if that scavenger claims that raider weapon first, he'll turn on you if you try to take it from him. That is good - I like the depth. The downside is that every. single. raider. (with the exception of smiling jack) hates you, as well as every single talon merc and a host of other humanoid baddies. That makes no sense, as you cannot tell me that there isn't a chance that one raider in the wasteland isn't a complete asshole to everyone, or simply cannot be bribed into working together.

I'd like to see a game where alliances are need-based and dynamic as situations in the world change. This pre-programmed black-and-white nonsense should have been done away with when RPGs left the 16-bit era.

[Max™]

>.>

Way of the Samurai 2.

Play through one time, roll with the Yakuza, be a total prick, townspeople see you and run in fear, gang thugs go from calling you lazy and not knowing you to looking up to you and jumping in to help you if you're in a fight.

Go work for the townspeople next time, kill every magistrate you see, they will come for your ass on sight, but the people will view it as you + them vs the magistrates office.

Do another game where you're just friendly to everyone, hear nothing but good things said about you, til you kick a little kid, or kill the wrong thug.

It isn't wtfperfect or anything, but it's along the lines of what you're describing, without any one group that automatically attacks you on sight (well, at night there are killers hired by groups which you're undermining if you piss them off badly enough), lots of fun.

[Lucavi]

I like you, Max, and I like the concept of that game. That sounds far more like a true sandbox than anything Bethesda has put out, even though Beth. is a fantastic company with quality games.

[arus2001]

I've never liked friendly fire in games. Sure, it might not be realistic, but when you start slinging giant exploding spells or whirling a greatsword around like a propeller, a little suspension of disbelief needs to be had. Obvious MPK applications aside, players would pretty much be regulated to precision maneuvers even if the AoE shit could kill a target two times faster. Throw lag on top of that, and you either get a lot of accidents or "accidents" for fun or malice.

Why enemy AoE never struck enemy mobs in XI seemed kind of obvious, though. What would the hit mob do? Attack the attacker? Just sit there and regen back to full HP a few seconds later? Not much in terms of point there.

[Lucavi]

I'm not talking so much about friendly fire in a FPS standpoint. I'm talking about if I'm at the dunes and I am fighting a crab and AOE and hit a pugil at the same time, why do they both attack me if the crab does bubble shower, and it won't hit the pugil?

Its like they are some sort of unspoken allies. Its like all monsters in the game (since lumped up into the generic monster category) are in kahoots with one another and are uniformly against "Those damned adventurers!" like it is some movie subplot. That is what I don't like.

It would be nice to be a hunter stalking through a jungle or an oasis or something and see two beasts fighting on another, or one feasting on another, and get the drop on them from range. It would also be nice to see one monster attacking me and injuring me, and seeing another monster attack the first one in a fight to see who gets to finish -me- off. Its exciting and it adds a dimension outside of simply "attack X monster >> attack Y monster >> loot X and Y monster".

Long have I hated the generic "you vs. the world" concept in games of all ranges. Hell, one of my most favorite things to do was throw up a bunch of Darksims in Perfect Dark for the N64 and roll with a squad against two other squads. The dynamic of having allies, and enemies who also had OTHER enemies to deal with made for a much more engaging struggle than simply "you vs. me".

[Boom]

if I'm at the dunes and I am fighting a crab and AOE and hit a pugil at the same time, why do they both attack me if the crab does bubble shower, and it won't hit the pugil?

Its like they are some sort of unspoken allies.

The crabs and pugils walk/fly along the same shores all the damn time, so they're casual acquaintances. If you see someone you know get into a bar fight and you get splashed with a spilled drink, do you lunge at him with a screwdriver? No, you just watch and be thankful that you're not a part of it.

It would be nice to be a hunter stalking through a jungle or an oasis or something and see two beasts fighting on another, or one feasting on another, and get the drop on them from range. It would also be nice to see one monster attacking me and injuring me, and seeing another monster attack the first one in a fight to see who gets to finish -me- off. Its exciting and it adds a dimension outside of simply "attack X monster >> attack Y monster >> loot X and Y monster".

An added dynamic would be that you need to get a certain type of mob to fight some HNM type, and the lesser mob would have some spell/effect that would neutralize some insane buff on the HNM.

I hate you vs. the world systems as well. Hoping for the best.

[Correction]

I'm not talking so much about friendly fire in a FPS standpoint. I'm talking about if I'm at the dunes and I am fighting a crab and AOE and hit a pugil at the same time, why do they both attack me if the crab does bubble shower, and it won't hit the pugil?

If you're asking for a blanket mechanic where all mob AoE damages friend or foe then you're asking for something extremely retarded, exploitable and full of holes for griefers to run away with.

[Vacht]

I've never liked friendly fire in games. Sure, it might not be realistic, but when you start slinging giant exploding spells or whirling a greatsword around like a propeller, a little suspension of disbelief needs to be had. Obvious MPK applications aside, players would pretty much be regulated to precision maneuvers even if the AoE shit could kill a target two times faster. Throw lag on top of that, and you either get a lot of accidents or "accidents" for fun or malice.

Why enemy AoE never struck enemy mobs in XI seemed kind of obvious, though. What would the hit mob do? Attack the attacker? Just sit there and regen back to full HP a few seconds later? Not much in terms of point there.

You play most games on easy mode, huh?

[arus2001]

If it's more a Food Chain or Monster Correlation mechanic like XI, then I'm not against that, either. I always felt SE could've done more with that. Like if I'm fighting a Lizard and a Fly is around, the Fly would help me kill the Lizard because the Lizard would otherwise go for the Fly. Whatever hunts the Lizard might, in turn, go for me because I'm going after their food.

How this then applies to (H)NMs can go a number of ways. Maybe a mob might only show if it 10 of its "food" is herded into a particular area. Maybe things it eats will stop aggroing if it's up and instead move around more erratically out of fear or not even go near its location. I could see a comedic fight where taking out a particular mob involves kiting it around a zone and getting wildlife to help overcome a regen players couldn't take on their own. Maybe some HNM would only appear if their particular eco-system is doing strongly (a chance to thrive) or poorly (gotta fight for survival of my species now).

It'd undoubtedly be a complex system I'd like to see in some capacity, but I'd rather take an "Us vs. Them" approach over "Everything vs. Everything" because it's basically replacing one flimsy mechanic with another if you don't fine tune rules of interaction... and that could be a daunting process in a large, living world. Entertainment precedes frustration for me.

You play most games on easy mode, huh?

*shrugs* Moves you can never use may as well not exist. Enforcing a scorched earth policy of player interaction usually gets just as boring, if not predictable. I've never been a FPS fan, where you might see friendly fire mechanics, either. More specific on game difficulty, however, I usually do Normal modes first and if I find I like the game enough to replay, I'll do a Hard mode later.

[Vacht]

If it's more a Food Chain or Monster Correlation mechanic like XI, then I'm not against that, either. I always felt SE could've done more with that. Like if I'm fighting a Lizard and a Fly is around, the Fly would help me kill the Lizard because the Lizard would otherwise go for the Fly. Whatever hunts the Lizard might, in turn, go for me because I'm going after their food.

How this then applies to (H)NMs can go a number of ways. Maybe a mob might only show if it 10 of its "food" is herded into a particular area. Maybe things it eats will stop aggroing if it's up and instead move around more erratically out of fear or not even go near its location. I could see a comedic fight where taking out a particular mob involves kiting it around a zone and getting wildlife to help overcome a regen players couldn't take on their own. Maybe some HNM would only appear if their particular eco-system is doing strongly (a chance to thrive) or poorly (gotta fight for survival of my species now).

It'd undoubtedly be a complex system I'd like to see in some capacity, but I'd rather take an "Us vs. Them" approach over "Everything vs. Everything" because it's basically replacing one flimsy mechanic with another if you don't fine tune rules of interaction... and that could be a daunting process in a large, living world.

If you hated friendly fire, then im sure youre going to find something wrong with this idea, in action. Because I doubt SE will allow you to gain full xp from a mob you didn't kill on your own. I should quote this, I bet you will be complaining about this after the game comes out - if it's even implemented.

[arus2001]

I wouldn't expect full EXP from something I didn't take out from start to finish. Conversely, the possibility arises where with mobs helping you kill you might get more EXP over time than soloing. It'd be like everyone's a BST without being a BST.

[Kaylia]

I wouldn't expect full EXP from something I didn't take out from start to finish. Conversely, the possibility arises where with mobs helping you kill you might get more EXP over time than soloing. It'd be like everyone's a BST without being a BST.

WoW gives you the full xp, and I don't think it hurts the gameplay at all. It's more like "yay, free xp", and I can move to the next monster to continue the grinding..

As long it's not something that can abused, there is no issue with the idea.

[Vacht]

It should be interesting, and give the game character. A lot of MMOs that come out are all about gear and xping. SE knows how to really make a game fun.. now all ill be waiting for is for them to add a jump button. Then again, youve never been able to jump in the FF series :/

[Kaylia]

It should be interesting, and give the game character. A lot of MMOs that come out are all about gear and xping. SE knows how to really make a game fun.. now all ill be waiting for is for them to add a jump button. Then again, youve never been able to jump in the FF series :/

I wish it was something like Zelda at least. You don't need to hop left and right, but climbing over obstacle and jumping when you reach a ledge is good enough for me. It would adds a nice touch to dungeon exploration.


About SE knowing how to make game fun...I have a lot to say. FFXI had as much grinding as any other mmo, it was just slower.

[Vacht]

I wish it was something like Zelda at least. You don't need to hop left and right, but climbing over obstacle and jumping when you reach a ledge is good enough for me. It would adds a nice touch to dungeon exploration.


About SE knowing how to make game fun...I have a lot to say. FFXI had as much grinding as any other mmo, it was just slower.

Yeah any ability to climb would be nice. I miss playing DAoC or the first Asheron's call. Who doesnt love jumping on a roof and hanging out or jumping off a cliff and dying(some of us, lol). I heard WoW had some fun stuff like that.

Definitely, FFXI is/was painful to play... Level a craft, make all your -1's and then never get the abj's. Then level multiple jobs to 75 to not use most of them, because of the lacking inventory space, or the disinterest for meriting another job.

XIV is seeming to be a completely different game, and i think SE has learned a lot from FFXI. Been anticipating SE's next MMO for so long because they always know how to change it up, and improve. If they come out with a game after XIV it will prolly be the best MMO evArrrrrr! Hopefully they will make it outside of the FF franchise to make the game more diverse.

I wonder if the franchise has a large influence on the development of the game.

[Kaylia]

WoW has some nice "jumping" segment, but the 3d perspective isnt really scary in the sense that you will rarely fall to your death (or have opportunity to kill yourself unless you really want to die). One of the newest "boss fight" involve jumping from one airship to another airship which is pretty cool though.
Even if it's gimmicky, it adds a lot to the epicness of the moment.

[Warudo Ecksu]

Oh, god. The jumping/wall climbing thing again. This topic only brings despair to those who try to discuss it. Get out now.

[Kaylia]

Oh, god. The jumping/wall climbing thing again. This topic only brings despair to those who try to discuss it. Get out now.

Funny, you're the only one crying at the moment.

[Vacht]

Funny, you're the only one crying at the moment.

Lol, right?

That sounds awesome! WoW sounds fun.. too bad PC onry.