Nigerian massacre a result of religious violence or land disputes?

[Neosutra]

You're right man.

Time to banish the NFL, it's obviously directly responsible for OJ killing people.

Because 300 people were brutally murdered this week due to the Vikings loss right?

Save the retarded baseless comparisons for the politics threads.

[Plow]

OJ is not innocent just because he played good football,

Because 300 people were brutally murdered this week due to the Vikings loss right?

Save the retarded baseless comparisons for the politics threads.

You are the smartest man I have ever met in my entire life, how you haven't solved all the world's mysteries while making Einstein look like a moron and having the Nobel Peace Prize changed to the "Neo building better nukes prize" yet is way beyond me.

[Neosutra]

You are the smartest man I have ever met in my entire life, how you haven't solved all the world's mysteries while making Einstein look like a moron and having the Nobel Peace Prize changed to the "Neo building better nukes prize" yet is way beyond me.

Completely irrelevant sarcasm that doesnt address the point of the debate and only displays your frustration at having no valid argument against the FACT that religion directly motivated (or justified) the brutal murdering of 300+ people.

Glad to see things dont change. Keep fighting the good fight.

[Plow]

Completely irrelevant sarcasm that doesnt address the point of the debate and only displays your frustration at having no valid argument against the FACT that religion directly motivated (or justified) the brutal murdering of 300+ people.

Glad to see things dont change. Keep fighting the good fight.

Glad to see you've turned 6 now.


You make an idiotic argument and I make fun of you for it. You forget that you made the idiotic point in the first place and try to pin the retardation on to me.


I don't need to argue with you, the points are made throughout the thread and in the article itself, your willful ignorance is far too entertaining to laugh at to bother arguing idiocy.

[Kaylia]

Because 300 people were brutally murdered this week due to the Vikings loss right?

Because social injustice here can be compared to the one in nigeria? Because Viking fan felt threatened after the loss..right?


I don't understand how you can factor religion has the only catalyst for violence, when it's obvious any sort of social group (etnies, gang, religion) will lead to violent behavior in the proper context. Language, skin color and tradition are as much of a culprit as religion is when violence like this happen.


If you want to eliminate the difference between culture, good fucking luck.

[Neosutra]

Because social injustice here can be compared to the one in nigeria? Because Viking fan felt threatened after the loss..right?


I don't understand how you can factor religion has the only catalyst for violence, when it's obvious any sort of social group (etnies, gang, religion) will lead to violent behavior in the proper context. Language, skin color and tradition are as much of a culprit as religion is when violence like this happen.


If you want to eliminate the difference between culture, good fucking luck.

To be fair, I didnt say religion was the only catalyst, I was focusing on it being a large motivater (or justifier) in this particular case (and thus more general cases). Prejudice and violence are always hand in hand with ignorance and lack of education. My point is that the idealogical division and ethnic zealotism that arises from these religious teachings directly motivates this violence in a place where tensions are already high due to resources and social influences.

Or are you arguing that these events will absolutely take place (with just as much frequency and brutality) if there wasnt divine justification behind each person's atrocity? I would disagree, but would be interested in hearing you debate that point.

As for Plow, you continue to display an inability to post anything relevant beyond insults, so I'm just going to ignore you. Respond with something beyond sarcasm and "lol you're stupid" and I might start seeing you as less of an adolecent. Take 15 minutes and google and find some maturity and a place in this debate.

[Plow]

If you had any concept of sociology you'd realize it's more likely that these people are different religions because of the other differences and the violence than the other differences between them or the violence having any root in the religion at all.

[Kaylia]

Or are you arguing that these evetns will absolutely take place (with just as much frequency and brutality) if there wasnt divine justification behind each person's atrocity? I would disagree, but would be interested in hearing you debate that point.

I sincerely believe these events would appears with the same violence and brutality if there was no religion involved. It just happens that different culture almost always share different religions for obvious reason (religion evolve at the same time).

People are violent when they believe it's the best solution, and quite frankly, eliminating the competition does make thing easier when it's succesful. But like you said, they lack proper education, and because of this, they can't take a decision worth a damn. You can see the same kind of war between street gang in most ghetto here. They live in america, arent particularly religious, yet, they arent more "civilized".



And while religion might be the downfall of certain culture, I don't believe it's always a bad thing. Over the last 400 years, you can see that most schools were created for religious purpose, and these schools are the very reason why our society stand strong at this moment, even if we dropped religions. And damn, most beliefs/guideline our society follow are heavily influenced by religion. If "everyone is equals" wouldnt be so important in the bible, I dont think it would have been as easy to get the point accross over the last century.


I understand it's not entirely why we have these laws and right, but it's much easier to shove it down someone throat when it's specified in the source of his beliefs.

[Plow]

You're an atheist.

You're fighting in a war against various Muslims.

Your "day job" is to create better weaponry, with its most likely uses being to kill more Muslims.

Your "personal side work" is to attempt to single-handedly prove Muslims, and all other non-atheists wrong.


Clearly the entire military and all wars it involves are because of the Muslim hating atheists.


You continue to project your own hatred of religion onto everyone, thinking anyone that has any thoughts of religion is massing hatred and working to kill. That's not how it works.

[Neosutra]

If you had any concept of sociology you'd realize it's more likely that these people are different religions because of the other differences and the violence than the other differences between them or the violence having any root in the religion at all.

Again you fail to provide a basis for your argument beyond insult. "you're ignorant of sociology" isnt a solid foundation for your premis that these violent murders were completely motivated by other differences, and had nothing to do with religion. Just like me saying "Plow has no idea what he is talking about and is only displaying is sophmoric view of sociology and psychology via his ignorant ramblings" doesnt prove my point (even if it is true).

Restating your premis doesnt prove your point.

These people may be "more likely" to be muslim or christian based on their ethnicity and regional influences, but this is a single town of NIGERIANS, not two waring neighbors that are different colors, different languages, and different economies.

Are you really trying to argue that religion has no blame for this incident? Really?

[Kaylia]

Are you really trying to argue that religion has no blame for this incident? Really?

Technically, nowhere in the bible are they saying anything like this. In fact, they are saying the exact opposite of what is happening right now.


You want to blame religion? Fine. But I believe a demonstration is needed here, because the "religion" say exactly the opposite of what is happening. I have an idea of what you're trying to say, but I don't believe it's correct (which is why I'm asking you for a demonstration).

So, why religion lead to such contradiction? Is it because religion prevent people from being educated? Is it because religion is the main cause of cultural difference, and eliminating religion would eliminate that?

[Plow]

Again you fail to provide a basis for your argument beyond insult. "you're ignorant of sociology" isnt a solid foundation for your premis that these violent murders were completely motivated by other differences, and had nothing to do with religion. Just like me saying "Plow has no idea what he is talking about and is only displaying is sophmoric view of sociology and psychology via his ignorant ramblings" doesnt prove my point (even if it is true).

Restating your premis doesnt prove your point.

See, this is funny for a couple of reasons.

The first being that you say things like this:

These people may be "more likely" to be muslim or christian based on their ethnicity and regional influences, but this is a single town of NIGERIANS, not two waring neighbors that are different colors, different languages, and different economies.

Which show anyone with a clue exactly how terrible your understanding of various societies really is.

You are talking about people with different languages and economies. You are talking about people who have hated each other for as long as they've gathered apart from each other. You're talking about an area which still harbors cannibalistic tribal warfare. This shit is nothing compared to the shit that has been going on for centuries (millennia even) there, in fact it's possible (likely, even) the introduction of Christianity and Islam *reduced* the extent of the atrocities that may have occurred in this scenario, although I wouldn't argue that because I don't know these 2 groups' specific history.

Secondly, because you've provided absolutely no facts or meaningful support for your argument whatsoever, and when you get the same shit thrown back in your face you attempt to "call people out" on not bothering to argue to a significantly higher level than you do.

The big problem is that you're lacking common knowledge in the fields you're attempting to discuss. It's like someone coming into a math thread and demanding links and support to show that the Pythagorean theorem is real when it's mentioned in passing.


I mean... "you're talking about 2 groups in X country in Africa, not 2 warring neighbors!"

like... I dunno if I could think of a single thing that could possibly show a greater ignorance of world societies.

Are you really trying to argue that religion has no blame for this incident? Really?

I wouldn't be foolish enough to claim knowledge. I'm not an idiotic douche that claims he has all the solutions for a peaceful world while working his ass off to make killing people easier and more efficient.

[Neosutra]

Technically, nowhere in the bible are they saying anything like this. In fact, they are saying the exact opposite of what is happening right now.


You want to blame religion? Fine. But I believe a demonstration is needed here, because the "religion" say exactly the opposite of what is happening. I have an idea of what you're trying to say, but I don't believe it's correct (which is why I'm asking you for a demonstration).

Which bible are you reading? Mine contains rape, murder, genocide, zionism, purification and damnation for non believers, and incest (and more goodies!). The koran isnt any better, but both have their fair share of violence, death, and persecution of non believers.

We got into this in a previous religious thread, but I believe that the point was: Even if you ignore every bad thing in the bible and only take the "good teachings", you are left with the lingering philosophy that "non believers" will be damned to eternal torture for not choosing the follow that given diety. This sole concept of exclusionism and damnation by the very omnipotent icon that these people are attempting to emulate directly contributes to this prejudice and mental justification for such atrocities.

So, why religion lead to such contradiction? Is it because religion prevent people from being educated? Is it because religion is the main cause of cultural difference, and eliminating religion would eliminate that?

We could debate religious influencers on reducing education (church fighting against round earth theories, evolution, big bang cosmology, and reducing openness to other religions/beliefs), but I think in this case these people are already in an area with limited education, so not sure how powerful of an argument this would be. Religion may be the main cause of the cultural differences if the 2 sects develop incontiguous social norms based on these idealogies, but who knows. Would elimination religion eliminate that? Would definately help. It goes back to justifications for prejudice being based on things that can be reasoned/educated away (just ignorance) and being based on "divine" truths that are incapable re-evaluation.

[Kuya]

The US army is considered to be there to wage a war against Islam by some in the Middle East, and Neosutra is rabidly anti religious. How delicious. Try not to spark more civil unrest there, neo, we'd like to get out of there in the next century.

[Brill Weave]

They're Nigerians. Unless it was my long lost Nigerian prince of a cousin, what the fuck do I care?

[Kuya]

What i don't get is, he makes a thread asking for a real explanation of what is going on in Nigeria before he jumps to his conclusions, few pages later with no real analysis of the situation he jumps into his IT'S BECAUSE OF RELIGION rant. Why did he even ask if he was just going to say it was religion in the end anyway? Mind as well rename the thread into I AM NEOSUTRA AND I HATE RELIGION PART XXXXl

[Neosutra]

What i don't get is, he makes a thread asking for a real explanation of what is going on in Nigeria before he jumps to his conclusions, few pages later with no real analysis of the situation he jumps into his IT'S BECAUSE OF RELIGION rant. Why did he even ask if he was just going to say it was religion in the end anyway? Mind as well rename the thread into I AM NEOSUTRA AND I HATE RELIGION PART XXXXl

So making a topic asking for other's opinions on a subject (in which I state my opinion on "lol religion" and "fuck humanity" in the very first post) and then debating the concept of excluding religion from any blame in this atrocity is "just another religious rant"?

Pretty ironic coming from Mr I AM KUYA AND I WILL POST MY 2 CENTS IN EVERY RELIGION THREAD, EVEN IF I DONT EVER PROVIDE A COUNTERARGUMENT BEYOND SARCASM. How about if you dont like it, you ride out on the horse you came in on?

And I still havent seen a good argument on how this event would have happened without the religious motivators. Still waiting.

[Plow]

What i don't get is, he makes a thread asking for a real explanation of what is going on in Nigeria before he jumps to his conclusions, few pages later with no real analysis of the situation he jumps into his IT'S BECAUSE OF RELIGION rant. Why did he even ask if he was just going to say it was religion in the end anyway? Mind as well rename the thread into I AM NEOSUTRA AND I HATE RELIGION PART XXXXl

To be quite honest, I'm surprised it took the playing out of said events to realize this would occur.

I can state perfectly honestly that when I saw the title of the thread as a question, and the poster as Neo, I knew this immediately. Reading the op only confirmed this.

[Plow]

And I still havent seen a good argument on how this event would have happened without the religious motivators. Still waiting.

You're right, brokeass people starving and dealing with illness they have absolutely no capability for handling fighting and killing each other over resources is an entirely unprecedented occurrence.

People only kill people if religion is involved. (or if they don't want their kids, in which case it's fine)

[Kuya]

So making a topic asking for other's opinions on a subject (in which I state my opinion on "lol religion" and "fuck humanity" in the very first post) and then debating the concept of excluding religion from any blame in this atrocity is "just another religious rant"?

Pretty ironic coming from Mr I AM KUYA AND I WILL POST MY 2 CENTS IN EVERY RELIGION THREAD, EVEN IF I DONT EVER PROVIDE A COUNTERARGUMENT BEYOND SARCASM. How about if you dont like it, you ride out on the horse you came in on?

And I still havent seen a good argument on how this event would have happened without the religious motivators. Still waiting.

No, i think i will stay and continue to deride you, thanks. Besides, i'm not a Muslim so your war is not with me!