Men are becoming more like Women

[aduidarnenye]

I already said I approved of past wave feminism about equal rights, and we have them. Nowadays they are just pushing to have everything the same. Sirenia is a good example of this..

Many people in this thread have already pointed out that ardent feminists are not the majority. A very few people are doing what you are claiming, but it's a very small minority and no one really gives them much credence.

Most feminists are aware that men and women are different, and just want everyone to be equal. We're not asking for the exact same. I don't want to wear men's underwear. I like female styled underwear. But they're both underwear. All underwear is of equal value.

[Pirian]

But they're both underwear. All underwear is of equal value.

Wrong. G-Strings are superior to Thongs.

Oh and boxers>briefs, of course

[SilverBreeze]

I don't want to wear men's underwear. I like female styled underwear. But they're both underwear. All underwear is of equal value.

I don't know, have you tried boybriefs? They're amazing...

[Ksandra]

Many people in this thread have already pointed out that ardent feminists are not the majority. A very few people are doing what you are claiming, but it's a very small minority and no one really gives them much credence.

Most feminists are aware that men and women are different, and just want everyone to be equal. We're not asking for the exact same. I don't want to wear men's underwear. I like female styled underwear. But they're both underwear. All underwear is of equal value.

as I stated those were the feminist I'm against, I explained my definition of feminists as well. as for the others that are strictly at for equal rights that brings us back to the original point of the thread which is what else is there left to fight for? We already have equal rights, so that part of the feminist movement isn't necessary imo. And brings back to my original comment that in some ways we get more than men do when it comes to rights.

[Kuya]

I am sort of horrified that this isn't a troll thread.

[Shiroikage]

I am sort of horrified that this isn't a troll thread.

Maybe you are the trolled, Kuya.

[Kuya]

Oh man, wouldn't that be something.

[Cadsuane]

It's funny, I wrote this thread off when it was on its first page as garbage, and now that I check back it's 7 pages plus posters that I actually like taking it seriously.

[Kuya]

In hindsight i suppose the main motivation for this thread is intense butthurt:

you do know most women hate other women right?


also I am huge anti feminist.

One thing I feel that has hurt marriages kinda has to do with the feminist movement.

<- biggest anti-feminist female you'll ever meet lol.

Let's think about what happened years ago:

Man to work/children go to school.

Woman did errands during the day (cook/clean/groceries/etc)

Man/children come home.

Man relaxes after long day.

Woman cooks takes care of kids, after dinner all relax.

Weekends= relax, any small things that didn't get done during the week.

What is happening today:

Man and woman goes to work/ children go to school.

All come home around same time.

Man and woman are both tired but take turns cooking (or order food/woman only cooks) while trying to watch kids (or jsut to tired to pay attention to kids).

Weekends=mad errands rushing since nothing gets done during the week = no relaxation = never rest = cranky = fight over stupid things = stress = possible divorce.


Now of course this is not the only reason. Like others stated before there's a lot of people out there that get married way before their ready (I have two friends who are going through marriage consuling, they got married after about 4 months of dating). Also, people don't look at marriage as sacred as it used to be.

However, I do consider this to be a huge problem society-wise as well.

I could see it as a teacher and I see it as a dependant person. It's very very hard to have both parents work and try to get everything done, that used to be hard to do with just one person at work.

Now again don't get me wrong, the old way wasn't perfect, and people had stress. But back then it took one family member to support the whole family, where now it takes two. Which to me says a lot less time.

I saw as a teacher how little attention kids get from their parents nowadays. I admit some of those parents seem suspiciously greedy, but a lot of the parents felt they just didn't have the time. They're both worn out at the end of the work day that it's hard to focus after you get out.

Look at women nowadays when they have a baby. Most places give them two months maturnity leave. Two months. Now I don't have kids but I've seen two month old babies, they could care less about what time you're going into work, or how tired you are. I say f that when I have kids, I'm not working at least till they go to pre-school. I've seen mothers come into work when they have a baby, they're eyes are red and they have a hard time focusing on their work. Now way is that healthy for a family imo.

Lol ok I'ma stop for now bf laughing at me on how much I posted. XD

But ya to be honest if I was told I had a choice between working, or taking care of the house/kids. I'd choose the latter without a doubt, I think it creates a healtheir family.

But of course that's just my opinion.

/Agreed, you should have seen the look on my bf's face when I was like "I feel the woman should stay at home and help raise the kids."

I hate how women feel they want it all and give nothing back. Tbh I think women's rights ruined a lot of families out there.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72883

Can you spell projecting?

[Ksandra]

yes, terrible I talk about things I like to talk about. OO

[edit mistake] And spam should always be taken seriously to the most serious extent, seriously. Seriously.

[Kuya]

Whoa, slow down there, you huge anti-feminist you.

[Shiroikage]

So are you not serious about that?

[Ksandra]

I am not the biggest anti-feminist you'll meet, maybe. That's implying a lot when I dunno where you live. I am however an anti-feminist (as seen from this thread), and yes as I stated I think having one person at home can be more beneficial. But in the spam thread I was mostly saying woman at home and man work, though even I have stated in this thread I wouldn't care who stayed home.

It is amazing seeing how many kids don't see their parents because of working.

where I tutor a lot of the kids don't have "homework problems" per se, but they are there because the parents are never home, and the kids need a place to go where an adult can supervise them. (too many have/had poor grades simply because they got home and watched tv instead of doing work because they were home by themselves).

two months thing for maternity I fully think is silly, and not enough time. It's funny because in some other countries women get a lot more time off:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Europe

I like this article about it too:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...ty-leave_x.htm

U.S. stands apart from other nations on maternity leave
The Associated Press
In Santa Fe, Linda Strauss McIlroy, a first-time mother, is trying to get used to the thought of soon putting her two-month-old boy in day care so she can get back to work.
Linda Strauss McIlroy plays with her two-month-old baby, Gabriel, whom she'll soon have to put in day care so she can get back to work.
By Jeff Geissler, AP

"It's hard for me to imagine leaving him," she says. "Just not being with him all day, leaving him with a virtual stranger. And then that's it till, you know, I retire. It's kind of crazy to think about it."

Across the border in Vancouver, Canada, Suzanne Dobson is back at work after 14 months of paid maternity leave.

"It was great," she says. "I was still making pretty good money for being at home."

Across the ocean, in Sweden, Magnus Larsson is looking forward to splitting 16 months of parental leave at 80% pay with his girlfriend. They are expecting their first baby in a week.

With little public debate, the United States has chosen a radically different approach to maternity leave than the rest of the developed world. The United States and Australia are the only industrialized countries that don't provide paid leave for new mothers nationally, though there are exceptions in some U.S. states.

Australian mothers have it better, however, with one year of job-protected leave. The U.S. Family and Medical Leave Act provides for 12 weeks of job-protected leave, but it only covers those who work for larger companies.

To put it another way, out of 168 nations in a Harvard University study last year, 163 had some form of paid maternity leave, leaving the United States in the company of Lesotho, Papua New Guinea and Swaziland.

How did it end up this way?

"To me it's a puzzle. I can give you all the arguments that have been used, but that still doesn't really solve the puzzle," says Jeanne Brooks-Gunn, a professor of child development and education at Columbia University.

According to Brooks-Gunn, some countries, like France, expanded maternity leave after World War II to fight falling fertility and encourage childbearing. That argument has been missing in the United States, where immigration has ensured population growth.

Jane Waldfogel, also a professor at Columbia, says another part of the puzzle is that the European and American feminist movements had differing goals.

In Europe, feminists emphasized special treatment for mothers, including maternity leave and child care.

"The American feminist movement didn't want to hear anything about mothers," Waldfogel says. "They wanted equal rights for women and didn't emphasize special treatment."

The U.S. feminist movement has moved away from this viewpoint, but that hasn't led to a change in maternity rules. One reason is that U.S. women are used to having about three months off and consider it the norm, Waldfogel says.

For many, of course, that norm feels alien. To Strauss McIlroy in Santa Fe, those three months certainly feel inadequate.

"I thought, being kind of a career woman, that I might be one of those who'd be kind of looking forward to going back, that I'd be all babied out," she says. "But I'm really very apprehensive about it."

In Canada, Dobson's feelings about her son, Gavin, and the country's maternity leave rules are a better fit.

"I don't think I would have been ready to hand him over to anyone at six months," Dobson says. "At 12 months, he's a little person, and he can kind of tell you what he wants and doesn't want."

There have been several attempts at introducing paid maternity leave in the United States. The Clinton administration wanted to allow states to use unemployment funds for maternity leaves, but that was shot down by the Bush administration after opposition from business groups concerned with increased contribution to state unemployment funds.

A bill introduced in the House by Reps. Pete Stark and George Miller, both D-Calif., would establish a fund that would replace 55% of pay for workers on FMLA leave. Contributions to the fund would come from employers.

"There are a couple of central problems when we look at paid leave legislation. The first is: who's paying for it?" asks Michael Eastman, director of labor policy at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

U.S. employers already pay $21 billion a year in direct costs related to the FMLA, Eastman says, in addition to indirect costs like additional overtime for those who fill in for workers on leave.

Waldfogel agrees that it's too much to ask employers to shoulder the cost of introducing paid maternity leave.

"As long as what we have in mind ... is asking employers to both hold the job open and pay the salary, we're going to get tremendous resistance from employers," she says.

California went a different route, and last year introduced family leave with around 50% pay for six weeks, paid from a fund that employees, not employers, pay into.

"Once they did that, there were no longer any objections from employers," Waldfogel says.

Five states — California, Hawaii, New Jersey, New York and Rhode Island — and Puerto Rico require employers to have temporary disability programs, which pay benefits if the pregnancy is defined as a disability by a doctor. A few others have infant care programs that pay subsidies to low-income families for up to two years.

In New York City, Kelsey Goss, a public-school teacher, is trying to build her tutoring business so she and her husband can stay afloat financially when she goes on unpaid maternity leave in October.

"When I tell people that as a teacher I get zero paid maternity leave, they're stunned," she says. "In a job like that, that's about taking care of kids, those are the benefits?"

How does she think her benefits compare with Europe?

"I don't even want to know," she says.

[Kuya]

You know who fights to have more than two months of maternity leave?

Feminists.

lol

[Ksandra]

You know who fights to have more than two months of maternity leave?

Feminists.

lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-feminist

Antifeminism is opposition to feminism in some or all of its forms.

I bolded the "in some" part for you. I already stated the type I dislike, stated those that I like. I don't have to hate all to classify myself as an anti-feminist.

"Many antifeminist proponents say the feminist movement has achieved its aims and now seeks higher status for women than for men."

"Antifeminists often criticise the misandric policies of Western governments, including anti-male discrimination in the areas of reproductive rights, child custody, alimony, and property division in divorce, pointing to statistical figures.[6] They also object to affirmative action/ positive discrimination, against men in the form of quotas in the areas of employment, education, politics, and healthcare.[citation needed]"

"Antifeminists sometimes point to an increase in divorce and family breakdown and attribute as its cause the influence of feminism. They also cite that crime[7], teenage pregnancy[8], and drug abuse[9] are higher among children of fatherless homes, considering that 66-80% (depending on the source) of divorces are initiated by women and that single mothers are accountable for 49% of all child abuse cases.[10]"

"Antifeminists say that feminists impose tremendous pressure on traditional women by denigrating the role of a traditional housewife,[13] instead promoting the business woman, woman leader models, as well encouraging women into competitive environments, where they may not be able to perform as well as males, if only for purely physical reasons.

Antifeminists point out cases when feminist policies and regulations are detrimental to female self-esteem. For example, women sometimes receive "special treatment" in the form of gender norming, which is lowering physical fitness requirements for women in some professions such as military and rescue services. Women who are hired are expected to handle less physically demanding tasks, which may reduce effectiveness of a unit. These policies make it impossible to refuse hiring women.[14]"

These are the parts that make me an anti-feminist.

[aduidarnenye]

as I stated those were the feminist I'm against, I explained my definition of feminists as well. as for the others that are strictly at for equal rights that brings us back to the original point of the thread which is what else is there left to fight for? We already have equal rights, so that part of the feminist movement isn't necessary imo. And brings back to my original comment that in some ways we get more than men do when it comes to rights.

Gender is still not a part of the Civil Rights Amendment of the United States. Race and religion are there, but gender is not. And adding it has been voted against multiple times in the senate since the bills inception. I don't think women have equal rights under that definition.

Also, it's fine to be against those ardent feminists. I've not seen anyone here promoting them yet.

[Ksandra]

Also, it's fine to be against those ardent feminists. I've not seen anyone here promoting them yet.

I am not arguing with people here because I think they are ardent feminists, I am arguing with people here because they don't seem to understand the type I am talking about, and seem to think I mean everyone.

[Kuya]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-feminist



I bolded the "in some" part for you. I already stated the type I dislike, stated those that I like. I don't have to hate all to classify myself as an anti-feminist.

"Many antifeminist proponents say the feminist movement has achieved its aims and now seeks higher status for women than for men."

"Antifeminists often criticise the misandric policies of Western governments, including anti-male discrimination in the areas of reproductive rights, child custody, alimony, and property division in divorce, pointing to statistical figures.[6] They also object to affirmative action/ positive discrimination, against men in the form of quotas in the areas of employment, education, politics, and healthcare.[citation needed]"

"Antifeminists sometimes point to an increase in divorce and family breakdown and attribute as its cause the influence of feminism. They also cite that crime[7], teenage pregnancy[8], and drug abuse[9] are higher among children of fatherless homes, considering that 66-80% (depending on the source) of divorces are initiated by women and that single mothers are accountable for 49% of all child abuse cases.[10]"

"Antifeminists say that feminists impose tremendous pressure on traditional women by denigrating the role of a traditional housewife,[13] instead promoting the business woman, woman leader models, as well encouraging women into competitive environments, where they may not be able to perform as well as males, if only for purely physical reasons.

Antifeminists point out cases when feminist policies and regulations are detrimental to female self-esteem. For example, women sometimes receive "special treatment" in the form of gender norming, which is lowering physical fitness requirements for women in some professions such as military and rescue services. Women who are hired are expected to handle less physically demanding tasks, which may reduce effectiveness of a unit. These policies make it impossible to refuse hiring women.[14]"

These are the parts that make me an anti-feminist.

So you claim to be a huge anti-feminist because you oppose some form of fringe feminazi? How lovely. And i like how you quoted shit in there that is less fact and more conspiracy theory. Face it, something huge crawled up your butt and died, and it's called feminism. This entire thread and all your meaningless diatribes have been aimless. You made a thread to criticize a movement without really understanding it, because you only made this thread out of reactionary butthurtism.

[Cadsuane]

I think they're (or at least Kuya is) arguing with you because they think you're a lazy breeder who's squandering the last century of social progress for your sex and that you're utterly ignorant of the fact that not being a second class citizen means that you shoulder some responsibilities besides procreation and making sammiches.

ie. when you say this

So as much as you want to call me a hypocrite, I try to basically do exactly what I think a woman should be doing. Which is what feminists don't want women doing.

yeah, you get denigrated for being or wanting to be a menial fucking house wife.

[Shojin]

Kuya, would the title of this thread explain why I bleed from my penis every now and then?