Men are becoming more like Women

[Colenzo]

Hey I do manage the kitchen (fiance can't cook at all), handle all the bills, do the grocery shopping, clean the pets/maintain, do all the laundry, etc. etc. My fiance really doesn't have to do anything when he gets home except sit and play video games. I am fortunate atm to not need to work a full 40 hour job so yes I get my breaks too. (omg the home oriented women isn't doing chores 24/7 crazy talk!) I hope someday to be a stay at home mom (or at least work part time that won't conflict with my children's schedules), but as I stated this is not an easy thing to do nowadays, though it is possible in my situation.

Being home-bodied doesn't mean slaving away 24/7 it means getting shit done during the day so everyone can have a break at night/weekends.

So as much as you want to call me a hypocrite, I try to basically do exactly what I think a woman should be doing. Which is what feminists don't want women doing.

At any rate, it all has to be done anyways.

[aduidarnenye]

Until the day that women grow penises and start penetrating men behind closed doors, they will never have true power in this world.

What the heck does that mean? The ability to penetrate with a penis is the only marker of having power? I'm almost sure that this is a joke but I'm not getting it. Possibly due to being female.

The crazy thing about women who are anti-feminist is that they do all the things that the feminist lobbying won for them. Just look at Sarah Palin, and earlier Phyllis Schlafly, both hard-core anti-feminist "traditional family values" Republican women who would not have been able to do any of career-wise or politics-wise things they have done had the feminists not won them the right to do so. The irony in their, and any female anti-feminist, political and moral stances is mindblowing.

I just can't wrap my head around it.

[Cantih]

At any rate, it all has to be done anyways.

^
Kids need to be watched to make sure they don't climb up and fall off the roof, household finances must be managed, upkeep needs doing, and unless you make enough bank to eat out/order in 3x a day cooking will ensue. I just don't give much a damn which gender does it.

(My one caveat is that, if I'M the one doing the cleaning, I choose the decor, and shit's gonna be spartan, cause I cba to dust all the goddamn time.)


It'd probably be more accurate to call me a humanist rather than feminist or masculist, though since there already is Humanism which isn't the same thing, it doesn't quite work.

Are things equal yet? No, the disparity in equality is nowhere near as bad as it has been in the past, but there's still some work to be done.

[Antithesis]

What the heck does that mean? The ability to penetrate with a penis is the only marker of having power?

Do we have to bring up the Key analogy?

[Cantih]

One of these days, I'm going to have to find a clip of that "I'm packing" commercial from Century City.

[Suburbanelite]

I think men assuming the traditional role of the woman and vice versa is a direct consequence of feminism. That's pretty obvious. That's not to say that the traditional roles are no longer filled by the respective genders, though. Men can cook and clean just as well as women can work and grow beards.

[Kuya]

Hey I do manage the kitchen (fiance can't cook at all), handle all the bills, do the grocery shopping, clean the pets/maintain, do all the laundry, etc. etc. My fiance really doesn't have to do anything when he gets home except sit and play video games. I am fortunate atm to not need to work a full 40 hour job so yes I get my breaks too. (omg the home oriented women isn't doing chores 24/7 crazy talk!) I hope someday to be a stay at home mom (or at least work part time that won't conflict with my children's schedules), but as I stated this is not an easy thing to do nowadays, though it is possible in my situation.

Being home-bodied doesn't mean slaving away 24/7 it means getting shit done during the day so everyone can have a break at night/weekends.

So as much as you want to call me a hypocrite, I try to basically do exactly what I think a woman should be doing. Which is what feminists don't want women doing.

What the previous generation of femenists gave you is choice, something you don't seem to appreciate, which is understandable because it's clear you don't know anything about feminism.

[Colenzo]

I've actually seen a woman with a goatee before.

[Beckwin]

http://www.oprah.com/relationships/W...e-Like-Women/1




It's funny cause while the writer seems to be of the opinion that this is a good thing, it just further proves to me that feminists fucked up everything. But kinda curious to see if people believe that women have "won" the war at this point.

In a way I don't think so, I think they are in the lead for sure (we now get everything men get and more), but the war isn't over, because women are still fighting for "equality" which is basically fighting to make sure they get everything they want. In many ways, the war of the sexes is like the war in Iraq. Women don't know why they're still there (and probably shouldn't have been there in the first place), but they'll keep fighting for ever and ever and ever.

uh, exactly how did feminists fuck up everything? by making it a matter of personal choices about who stays home with the kids and encouraging cooperation in maintaining a household instead of it being forced on half the married population because of their gender?

pro-tip: being a woman complaining about feminists that paved the way for your college education and employability does not make you look edgy or intelligent.

[Suburbanelite]

I've actually seen a woman with a goatee before.

I'm looking at Kuya's myspace picture he's got sigged...

[Vail]

I just can't wrap my head around it.

the problem with feminism is: if you don't do the stuff they "won" you the right to do and if you make the choice to do the "old" then you're not living to your potential and you're pissing on the work feminist did for you.

It's pretty retarded, let women have their choice, but don't criticize them for deciding they'd rather be a home maker.

Feminism has done alot of social damage. The gender "war" is worse off now then it was years ago. While some women here have brought up the freedom of their choices, they rarely comment on the pressure on them themselves to live the way feminist say they should be living. In addition, for such a "fair" world men really have no choices, our role is almost always the same as it has been. Because men and women alike expect men to be breadwinners and work/career oriented. Men who are stay-at-home dads, socially speaking, are not treated anything like a woman stay-at-home moms.

I actually feel that Ksandra(and other women you listed in your last post) are making better use of the rights feminist won for themselves then alot of those big business women who only took on those positions because of feministic coercion.

[Beckwin]

Yes, the gender war is far worse now than the days when of yore when women couldn't vote and could be openly discriminated against, not to mention when they needed chemical relief from their forced domestic lives where domestic violence had unspoken social consent and they also weren't allowed by society to enjoy having sex.

Also, you guys are off your fucking rockers if you think feminists don't want women to raise children or run a household. I kinda think most of you get your caricatures of feminism from comedians and stereotypes (or maybe even that 1-in-1000 feminist prof you had in ENG 101).

[aduidarnenye]

the problem with feminism is: if you don't do the stuff they "won" you the right to do and if you make the choice to do the "old" then you're not living to your potential and you're pissing on the work feminist did for you.

It's pretty retarded, let women have their choice, but don't criticize them for deciding they'd rather be a home maker.

Feminism has done alot of social damage. The gender "war" is worse off now then it was years ago. While some women here have brought up the freedom of their choices, they rarely comment on the pressure on them themselves to live the way feminist say they should be living. In addition, for such a "fair" world men really have no choices, our role is almost always the same as it has been. Because men and women alike expect men to be breadwinners and work/career oriented. Men who are stay-at-home dads, socially speaking, are not treated anything like a woman stay-at-home moms.

I actually feel that Ksandra(and other women you listed in your last post) are making better use of the rights feminist won for themselves then alot of those big business women who only took on those positions because of feministic coercion.

I consider myself a feminist but I don't have any problem with women who stay home to raise children and be housewives. My mother was a housewife for many years, worked for many years, and is now a housewife again.

Really, it's only a few very ardent feminists who pull the "men are evil, all women should should stand up and be like us" thing. Most women who identify themselves as feminists think those people are just as crazy as people who take Sarah Palin's viewpoint.

I have an aunt who was a housewife until she was 38 years old. At 39 she joined the Canadian air force and has since spent two tours in Afghanistan driving supply trucks. Nothing wrong with either choice.

My husband is training to be a nurse. I've applied to become an officer in the Canadian navy. I've never had anyone question that as a total gender reversal social stigma thing. My husband likes taking care of people. I like ships. No big deal.

[Beckwin]

last I checked there's no angry mob of feminists bearing down on the women of the 60% of households where men are the breadwinners and the women do most of the childcare/running the house.

[Ksandra]

uh, exactly how did feminists fuck up everything? by making it a matter of personal choices about who stays home with the kids and encouraging cooperation in maintaining a household instead of it being forced on half the married population because of their gender?

pro-tip: being a woman complaining about feminists that paved the way for your college education and employability does not make you look edgy or intelligent.

I'm not trying to look edgy. I know my views aren't something most look at. Fucking things up is a general statement because I think women have more opportunities than men yet still bitch.

It's funny actually about the college argument, as there is a program in NC? I think (or possibly SC it's been awhile), where if your sister got pregnant when she was 16 you can go to college on a scholarship for not getting pregnant at 16. This applies to women only, and funded by the state. Boys get squat for not getting girls pregnant.


As I stated the biggest issue I have is not so much as women in the workplace, but it being double breadmakers. I said before I don't care if the man stayed at home and the woman worked, I just feel one should stay at home. And the problem is that that is becoming a harder and harder choice to make because society now views both parents working, therefore don't need to pay an employee under the idea they are providing for the whole family.


Also, when I say I hate feminist it is modern-day feminists, because I feel there's nothing to "fight for" anymore. We have everything men have and more. I already stated the past feminist movement had good points to it (especially on the abusive part), but that doesn't mean I can't believe that they pushed it too far.


I guess my viewpoint is this: if someone doesn't like nuclear weapons, that doesn't make them a hypocrite for owning a gun. I like what feminism has done in some areas but not in others, and in some respects gone too far.



This off course though is an overall tangent however,(I admit my mistake) and mostly going away to the original thought of the op in whether people think women have finally won, still have more to go, or are now on top.

[Ksandra]

the problem with feminism is: if you don't do the stuff they "won" you the right to do and if you make the choice to do the "old" then you're not living to your potential and you're pissing on the work feminist did for you.

It's pretty retarded, let women have their choice, but don't criticize them for deciding they'd rather be a home maker.

Feminism has done alot of social damage. The gender "war" is worse off now then it was years ago. While some women here have brought up the freedom of their choices, they rarely comment on the pressure on them themselves to live the way feminist say they should be living. In addition, for such a "fair" world men really have no choices, our role is almost always the same as it has been. Because men and women alike expect men to be breadwinners and work/career oriented. Men who are stay-at-home dads, socially speaking, are not treated anything like a woman stay-at-home moms.

I actually feel that Ksandra(and other women you listed in your last post) are making better use of the rights feminist won for themselves then alot of those big business women who only took on those positions because of feministic coercion.

sorry for the double post, but missed this. I think Vail hit the nail on the head 100%

[Kuya]

the problem with feminism is: if you don't do the stuff they "won" you the right to do and if you make the choice to do the "old" then you're not living to your potential and you're pissing on the work feminist did for you.

It's pretty retarded, let women have their choice, but don't criticize them for deciding they'd rather be a home maker.

Feminism has done alot of social damage. The gender "war" is worse off now then it was years ago. While some women here have brought up the freedom of their choices, they rarely comment on the pressure on them themselves to live the way feminist say they should be living. In addition, for such a "fair" world men really have no choices, our role is almost always the same as it has been. Because men and women alike expect men to be breadwinners and work/career oriented. Men who are stay-at-home dads, socially speaking, are not treated anything like a woman stay-at-home moms.

I actually feel that Ksandra(and other women you listed in your last post) are making better use of the rights feminist won for themselves then alot of those big business women who only took on those positions because of feministic coercion.

If you're so concerned about men not getting a fairshare then why don't you start as social movement for it? Do you see any popular male movement for any form of liberation? Then why complain when most men don't seem to give a shit? Men don't bother because men think they have it better than women and they don't feel there is anything that needs liberating, even if they have some gripes about being men, they usually just ignore it.

Men shouldn't complain that things are unfair if they don't do anything about it.

[aduidarnenye]

As I stated the biggest issue I have is not so much as women in the workplace, but it being double breadmakers. I said before I don't care if the man stayed at home and the woman worked, I just feel one should stay at home. And the problem is that that is becoming a harder and harder choice to make because society now views both parents working, therefore don't need to pay an employee under the idea they are providing for the whole family.

This is really quite silly. Only a very small precentage of married women have ever been able to be stay-at-home wives without jobs. This was heavily touted to be the ideal in the 50s and 60s, and eventually seen to be the only normal and good route.

Before the postwar generation women often worked outside the home - as streamstresses, laundresses, or domestic servants for lower class women or nurses and teachers for middle/upper clas women. The choice was limited but most women did work.

When the US had the economic boom of the 50s the sign of success was to have a house in the suburbs and a housewife in a dress and a string of pearls in the kitchen. It was not normal, it was a completely new thing.

Even in the older frontier days of America women had to do a lot of work to maintain their families. They had to produce things like food, clothing, and other sundries by hand. The 50s and the modern technology took that away from women, giving them less to do and more boredom.

I've actually read that by the time feminism became big news all those middle-management men who lived in the suburbs were getting tired of supporting "unproductive" wives in their big houses and second cars.

On top of that, it's really silly to say that wages are reduced because there are two earners in a home. That's as silly as saying the reason women were paid less because it's just "pin money" for themselves while their husbands are the big breadwinners. There are a lot more economic reasons behind wages than that.

[Kuya]

I guess my viewpoint is this: if someone doesn't like nuclear weapons, that doesn't make them a hypocrite for owning a gun. I like what feminism has done in some areas but not in others, and in some respects gone too far.

What?

[Tristam]

the problem with feminism is: if you don't do the stuff they "won" you the right to do and if you make the choice to do the "old" then you're not living to your potential and you're pissing on the work feminist did for you.

It's pretty retarded, let women have their choice, but don't criticize them for deciding they'd rather be a home maker.

Feminism has done alot of social damage. The gender "war" is worse off now then it was years ago. While some women here have brought up the freedom of their choices, they rarely comment on the pressure on them themselves to live the way feminist say they should be living. In addition, for such a "fair" world men really have no choices, our role is almost always the same as it has been. Because men and women alike expect men to be breadwinners and work/career oriented. Men who are stay-at-home dads, socially speaking, are not treated anything like a woman stay-at-home moms.

I actually feel that Ksandra(and other women you listed in your last post) are making better use of the rights feminist won for themselves then alot of those big business women who only took on those positions because of feministic coercion.

I've never heard of a feminist criticizing a woman for being a stay-at-home mom, I have heard feminists criticize stay-at-home moms who do not develop interests or experiences outside of the home. There's a difference between being a stay-at-home mom and being entirely self indulgent and using being a homemaker as an excuse. Either way, the idea is they have the choice to work and contribute (or not) to society as they see fit. They are not being forced into a certain role due to the fact that they have two X chromosomes.

I also think you're making shit up as regards men. I've known two men who were the primary caregivers for children early in their lives. I do not judge them for it and know absolutely zero people who would. You do what you can and do the best you can do with whatever options you have. I've known other couples who have been more egalitarian with the raising of childeren and alternately taking leaves of absence from work. The options are there for men, if you don't want to take them, hey it's your choice.