People and their gearscore

[Onorgul]

Yeah, I see that nonsense a lot. I suppose I can understand the methodology, as I simply do not pull as fast on my 3700 Warrior (don't feel like figuring out what that is in WoW-Heroes, probably around 1700) as I could if I was pushing 5000 (ICC entry level). What kills me are the people who shout and put together those groups are themselves usually well behind.

Come to that, why is it so often that the weakest link is the one who tends to take up the mantle of leadership? I hate the yellow dot (FFXI terms, but point stands) in spite of generally being at least as knowledgeable and competent as anyone I'm likely to run across.

[Kaylia]

Yeah, I see that nonsense a lot. I suppose I can understand the methodology, as I simply do not pull as fast on my 3700 Warrior (don't feel like figuring out what that is in WoW-Heroes, probably around 1700) as I could if I was pushing 5000 (ICC entry level). What kills me are the people who shout and put together those groups are themselves usually well behind.

Come to that, why is it so often that the weakest link is the one who tends to take up the mantle of leadership? I hate the yellow dot (FFXI terms, but point stands) in spite of generally being at least as knowledgeable and competent as anyone I'm likely to run across.

I rarely had that problem in PUG. Not every leader are smart in the way they handle it, but it wasnt common to join a group where the leader had no experience or gears. It's maybe amount for 10-20% of my PUG.

People who completely ignore and bash GS are normally just as retarded as the people who take it as the bible.

Something like that.

[Moosey]

I use gearscore. It's a decent gauge usually of how well a particular person is probably going to do in any given instance though as we all know, player skill is a big part of that. Usually after talking to someone you're going to invite, you can kinda get an idea if they're an idiot or not. Usually.

Still though, I take the gearscore rating with a grain of salt. a 3500-4k GS is probably the minimum i'd take someone to any sort of raid content, depending on the raid and the class.

While I find GS pretty useful and use it often, it really is annoying as fuck when you're on the other side of the table, the one with the lower gearscore.

I consider myself a pretty good player, but how do you convey your skill to someone you A. Don't know and B. When you're on an alt?

I got kicked from not one, not two, but THREE SEPARATE Onyxia fucking 25 runs in the same day because my gearscore was only 3700 on my holy pally. I've played a Prot and Holy pally since mid-BC, healed through 3 tiers of content, and just that morning I healed a VoA25 with 4 other healers, and the only one that beat me on healing was the priest with a LEGENDARY MACE.

It's frustrating to say the least.

[Onorgul]

Healing meters are just as broken a metric as GearScore.

If you're playing a healer or tank, though, there's really no reason not to have at least ~4500 GS. It might take a whole week, but it really isn't hard at all to collect 4-5 pieces of T9 and a handful of other badge gear and/or stuff from H ToC and the Frozen Halls. If I was running a raid and saw someone trying to get in with a score under 4k, I'd reject them simply because it says, "I'm not really committed to getting myself prepared." Do you need 4500 GS for Ony or Naxx or Obsidian Scrotum? Hardly, but when they're giving away iLevel 232 items as prizes in cereal boxes, it's hard not to look askance.

That said, though, there are plenty of players who really don't pay much attention. I've had other players ask me to tell them their score because they're the weird ones who refuse to use addons (why? I really don't get the addon "purists"), and this is on Mal'ganis, where you can get bumped from Heroics for having a lousy GS. I've had people look sideways at my Warrior as I've been getting him geared up but I simply get moving long before they have time to try to vote-kick and we're nearly done the instance before it becomes an issue, which tends to silence the objections.

For raiding, though, spend the time and get the current tier of gear, please. Once you start edging close to 5k, then some argument can be started. I was benched for not having enough GS (by a rather lackluster and moronic raid leader who wiped repeatedly to Marrowgar) simply because I was using a 200 cloak was that substantially better than pretty much anything else I had run across prior and because I'd not been graced with decent trinkets yet. The trinkets and cloak I have now have boosted my DPS, to be sure (damned near BiS, so...), but there was no reason to bench me except for a failure to understand the limitations. So I sympathize once you hit a certain wall and simply cannot guarantee an improvement in a given slot. It took me a solid month to get a 232 necklace and I keep losing lots to replace it with a 245+.

[Plow]

Gearscore is useful for 2 things:

Disconnecting raid members.


Seeing people's gear without looking at armory.


If you're worrying about the actual score, yeah, silly.

[Lordender]

Gearscore is so stupid, I got told 5100 wasent good enough for ToC25 normal the other day even when i've completed the damn place in uld gear.

[Eaglestrike]

I'm not sure I posted it in this thread, my take on Gearscore:

Only useful in 5-mans. If you want to know how good someone is going to be for a raid you need to check their gems and enchants. Sure, someone can go online and find how to gem/enchant correctly, but you know what that means? That person actually did some research and put in some effort. I've seen people with over 5k gs without gems and without things like shoulder/helm enchants. That person is going to do dick for my raid.

I've been the one forming my ICC10's the past few weeks and I often have to "settle" for someone who do not match the gemming/enchanting I believe to be best. We then get stuck only going 6/9 and having to carry 2 of our 3 pugs through Festergut and Rotface because they're pretty bad.

I joined an ICC10 on my DK the other day, just under a 5k GS, the entire raid is 5.2-5.6k GS. It's a caster stacked raid, my DK's only buff is Blessing of Kings. I was 2nd in damage on Marrowgar and LDW, lead damage on Saurfang/Festergut and we did not even have the dps to down Festergut. These really high GS people were incapable of Festergut. They were terrible. Oh and did I mention we were 3-healing Festergut and tanks died? Yeah.

[Norellicus]

Gearscore is useful for 2 things:

Disconnecting raid members.


Seeing people's gear without looking at armory.


If you're worrying about the actual score, yeah, silly.

This is why the piece of shit needs to cease to exist and if I ever meet the author I will knock out his teeth.

You want to play with your stupid fucking addons, great. But when they start fucking with my gametime, gtfo.

[Onorgul]

I've been the one forming my ICC10's the past few weeks and I often have to "settle" for someone who do not match the gemming/enchanting I believe to be best.

Just out of curiosity, do you scrupulously research all the various different specs? I had someone question my use of SP/Spirit gems as a Shadow Priest. They at least understood once I explained that it was actually a (minute) gain over pure SP in the places I was using them, but it's one of those little wrinkles that people used to, say, Paladin or Mage gemming might not immediately know. I personally don't know squat about melee gemming and couldn't tell you if the guy wearing Expertise/Crit gems is doing it wrong or not.

[Eaglestrike]

Just out of curiosity, do you scrupulously research all the various different specs? I had someone question my use of SP/Spirit gems as a Shadow Priest. They at least understood once I explained that it was actually a (minute) gain over pure SP in the places I was using them, but it's one of those little wrinkles that people used to, say, Paladin or Mage gemming might not immediately know. I personally don't know squat about melee gemming and couldn't tell you if the guy wearing Expertise/Crit gems is doing it wrong or not.

Not "research" so to say, but I have 5 80's, almost 6 and I can play them all well and know most of the focus.

To note, I use SP/spirit gems on my priest. My issue is with druids who gem for int, plate dps who gem AP, mages with pure spirit gems etc.

[Kaylia]

Not "research" so to say, but I have 5 80's, almost 6 and I can play them all well and know most of the focus.

To note, I use SP/spirit gems on my priest. My issue is with druids who gem for int, plate dps who gem AP, mages with pure spirit gems etc.

When gemming is wrong, there is probably many more wrong in his gameplay.

[Onorgul]

No, I totally understand that someone who gems something that is radically wrong (like Intellect on anything other than Paladin or maybe an undergeared Disc Priest) is actually a better metric than GearScore for measuring someone's competence. It's just a question of knowing what is and isn't appropriate for all the various and surprisingly disparate specs out there.

[Eaglestrike]

When gemming is wrong, there is probably many more wrong in his gameplay.

Exactly my point. And that's why gemming and enchanting show a lot more of how good someone is than a simple Gearscore can. Which is why I only use GS to give me a general idea of someones capability in a 5-man, for raids it means nothing as if I want a good raid member I'm going to armory them.

Edit for Onorgul: I'm a bit of an encyclopedia on things. Been this way for many years, I pick up on a lot of things and understand a lot of the general mechanics. People here probably know attack tables and exact workings of things better than I, but I probably have a better understanding of each class/spec than most. I play a million alts and wish to play them well, not exact cookie cutter, but to great efficiency, so I learn a lot about how everything plays and works. I have an excellent memory when it comes to this stuff, so it works for me.

[Kaylia]

Exactly my point. And that's why gemming and enchanting show a lot more of how good someone is than a simple Gearscore can. Which is why I only use GS to give me a general idea of someones capability in a 5-man, for raids it means nothing as if I want a good raid member I'm going to armory them.

His capability in 5-man are pretty much on par with his capability in raid, it's just that it's easier to carry him. Personally, I think 5-man is everyone training ground, so I don't really care if someone isnt perforning. If there is serious issue, I'm going to bring up the topic in a nice way if I can.


Back to gearscore, I don't know many raid leader who look at the GS only. I've seen a lot of people getting kicked 5 minutes after the invite, when the leader inspected them.

Shitty leader and leeches existed the same before, and they get the same treatment. Shitty leader would invite anyone not in green, now they invite anyone above a certain gearscore..it's essentially the same. Good leader understand gearscore, and use the tool like it's suposed to be used.

[seph32]

you see alot people buying 2 245 Hit trinks and to think they know what they are doing "Look I has high GearScore!" sporting in 500 hit rating. GearScore can be misleading! Trinkets are probably the lowest iLevel most of the time.

[Thuronn]

Exactly my point. And that's why gemming and enchanting show a lot more of how good someone is than a simple Gearscore can.

I think this happened on Sunday night. I was looking at one of the new hunters we recruited, decent stuff (232/245 mix mostly).

Then I began to look at his gems, all of them were Red +attack or Yellow+crit.

He's a Survival hunter, so I asked "Why don't you gem agi?"

His reply, and I'm not even joking here, "What does agi do?"



His name is Stupidhunter, so it made the situation even greater for me.

[The Blackrose]

Healing meters are just as broken a metric as GearScore.

As a Disc Priest, goddamn do I have to agree. People bitch at me about not healing as often and then I have to remind them that most, if not all trackers fail to track damage mitigation. Which is what Disc Priest is all about.

[Onorgul]

They can't track mitigation. They can estimate absorption, but how do you track that the raid is taking 3% less damage at all times? It's like Arms Warriors with Trauma: their personal DPS may be lower than Fury, but they're boosting the entire raid's DPS. People don't know how to use metrics. I got into an argument with someone saying that everyone in the raid had to do X DPS for Festergut and Rotface and anyone below that point would be kicked. It took a while to explain that some specs do less DPS but bring other things with them (e.g., my Shadow Priest is a mobile, scaleable Healing Stream totem) AND all that matters is the raid's sum total DPS, not an individual's contribution. When a Mage has to run around a lot, their DPS blows, but that's where the Rogue or Death Knight gets to pick up their DPS because (like usual) they're standing still or at least constantly in melee range.

[Thuronn]

you see alot people buying 2 245 Hit trinks and to think they know what they are doing "Look I has high GearScore!" sporting in 500 hit rating. GearScore can be misleading! Trinkets are probably the lowest iLevel most of the time.

This, I know my Greatness card is best that I can get right now but I just hate having that one 200ilvl item. It just doesn't match well.

All the other options, Death's Choice/25man saurfang, can be used by all melee classes.

Need more decent trinkets please.

[seph32]

NES/Banner of Victory are also pretty good.