France MPs' report backs Muslim face veil ban

[Rhinox]

Wait wait wait... I'm the only person that caught the irony in someone saying "shitting up a country = practicing a different religion than you" facetiously on a forum where there are countless comments constantly coming about Christianity (fuck yeah alliteration) ruining America and how not being atheist is ruining the world?

I think you're the only one that cared enough to point it out.


Congratulations

[Ksandra]

Wait wait wait... I'm the only person that caught the irony in someone saying "shitting up a country = practicing a different religion than you" facetiously on a forum where there are countless comments constantly coming about Christianity (fuck yeah alliteration) ruining America and how not being atheist is ruining the world?

IT WAS SARCASM. Sheesh...

[Plow]

yeah man, who cares about non-Muslim religious people, all they do is shit up countries

[Demosthenes11]

Wait wait wait... I'm the only person that caught the irony in someone saying "shitting up a country = practicing a different religion than you" facetiously on a forum where there are countless comments constantly coming about Christianity (fuck yeah alliteration) ruining America and how not being atheist is ruining the world?

irony would be neo saying this, not me.

[Plow]

IT WAS SARCASM. Sheesh...

that'sthejoke.jpg


point being people around here have no problem saying being a different religion than them just shits up countries when it refers to Christianity

[Kuya]

Some people hate how religions like Christianity are demonized, while Islam is given a free pass.

[Rhinox]

yeah man, who cares about non-Muslim religious people, all they do is shit up countries

Are you seriously crying about how Christians get treated on this board? Considering how pretty much every religion has been trashed on here this is news to you?


Are you new here?

Boofuckinghoo

[Plow]

Some people hate how religions like Christianity are demonized, while Islam is given a free pass.

Some people just laugh at how even when people think they're being witty and providing an intellectually superior commentary, they're blatantly applying the exact kind of false equivalencies and aggrandizement they accuse others of.

[Demosthenes11]

Some people just laugh at how even when people think they're being witty and providing an intellectually superior commentary, they're blatantly applying the exact kind of false equivalencies and aggrandizement they accuse others of.

why did you bring this up again? i hate christians?

[Kuya]

Some people just laugh at how even when people think they're being witty and providing an intellectually superior commentary, they're blatantly applying the exact kind of false equivalencies and aggrandizement they accuse others of.

Whatever do you mean?

[Ksandra]

why did you bring this up again? i hate christians?

you represent bg Congratulations!

[Demosthenes11]

you represent bg Congratulations!

http://cdn.gameist.com/static/conten...kimak/neo1.jpg

[Plow]

http://rystarr.files.wordpress.com/2...illclinton.jpg

Spoiler: show

meh

[aduidarnenye]

I get banning female genital mutilation, i sort of get banning polygamy if women can't do it too, the argument, however, for banning this garment however is far too abstract and reaching. Some people keep insisting that it's a symbol that oppreses women. Okay, so are high heel shoes, make up, and the traditional family, according to some women. No one, except maybe Iceland, is going to ban those three things. What's missing here is a consideration for intensity or proportionality. Female genital mutilation robs women of their sexuality in a very concrete sense and thus it requires concrete action. Wearing a burka? The argument for it is just not convincing.

The difference is, of course, that Western women are not required to wear high heels and make up to retain their honour and morality.

While some women do choose to wear these garments, most are forced to by their families, cultures, or countries because of religious reasons, i.e. protecting morality and saving their sexual honour.

[Cesaria]

I can see the logic in it both ways - it can be a lot harder to communicate with someone wearing particularly a burqa (it's not quite as hard when they've got the other type with eyes open but face and head covered - think it's a niqab but I doubt I've spelt that right). I've got slightly impaired hearing - so losing that ability to see a face makes it much harder for me to hear, especially when you're speaking to someone generally with highly accented English anyway. It used to really really un-nerve me - but I do so much work in the very predominantly Asian parts of town these days that you do just tend to screen it out after a while.

Generally though I don't give a shit - apart from when you see women driving fucking cars with a full burqa on - that's more than bloody dangerous - it's bordering on fucking suicidal (for everyone else on the road at the time)!

Like most people though, it's the inconsistency and double standards that DO annoy. I'm in the middle of renewing my passport at the moment - and they'll return mine if I've got any hair falling over my face at all as an unclear photo - yet if I was a member of an ethnic minority - I could send my photo in in a full face veil and it would be completely acceptable (when you can't tell who the hell is under there). I can't speak for France - but I can understand the people in the UK who get sick of the double-standards sometimes.

Yes, personally I don't like how Islam views and treats women, but I also hate idiot fucking parents in Western society who dress four year old girls up in heels, miniskirts, little bikini tops with provocative comments on - had one kid show up for the class Christmas party one year aged 4 and a half wearing pink high heels, pink furry handbag and a feather boa - tell me that THAT'S not a fucked up way of viewing women that kids are being indoctrinated into either?! Basically brainwashing them from the get-go into being skimpily pink-clad little slappers who have no ambition in life other than to grab a rich man, please them and be a nice little WAG (if you haven't met the WAGs yet - they're the vacuuous blonde bimbos usually surgically attached to a footballer... and said footballer's credit card).

[Kuya]

The difference is, of course, that Western women are not required to wear high heels and make up to retain their honour and morality.

While some women do choose to wear these garments, most are forced to by their families, cultures, or countries because of religious reasons, i.e. protecting morality and saving their sexual honour.

How many Muslim women live in France who aren't required to wear the burqua?

edit: or niqab

[aduidarnenye]

How many Muslim women live in France who aren't required to wear the burqua?

edit: or niqab

While I must assume that not all, perhaps not even many, women are required to wear burkas/niqabs, I do not think that is an easy number to declare. I do think that a lot of families and communities put pressure on women to wear these garments for my above stated reasons. I think that many women resist the pressure. I think that many women capitulate or believe they are choosing to wear them of their own free will. I also think that an amount of violence is done against women, especially daughters used to Western society, who wish to not wear them.

I don't believe that comparing scanty clothing of females in Western society to the strict volumnous clothing of Islam is ideal. Yes, some girls wear scanty, inappropriate clothing. But they are not required to by any moral precepts of their society and community. In fact, most communities look down morally on women dressed so. I think that women (and men) should be able to choose whatever clothing they wish to wear without fearing the wrath, censure, commendation, or even praise of their community or family.

I have no problem with religious garments used in religious ceremony. It is only when these garments are required to be worn at all times and the sole purpose of the garment is to erase the identity and protect the morality of the wearer.

[Kuya]

Let's use belgium as an example. According to the BBC, only about 30 out of half a million muslim women even use the veil.

edit: what i would want you to do, as well as anyone else who supports this, is find some muslim women who chooses to wear the niqab because it represents her cultural identity as a middle eastener, and tell her that you won't allow her to wear it because it oppresses her. I feel that the irony of the situation should be apparant to anyone.

[Elvis]

[aduidarnenye]

Let's use belgium as an example. According to the BBC, only about 30 out of half a million muslim women even use the veil.

I've read a lot of stories about how only a few women in Canada wear the veil. However, my work is near a language school and apparently one full quarter of the women who wear the veil in Canada attend this school.

edit: what i would want you to do, as well as anyone else who supports this, is find some muslim women who chooses to wear the niqab because it represents her cultural identity as a middle eastener, and tell her that you won't allow her to wear it because it oppresses her. I feel that the irony of the situation should be apparant to anyone.

This is a common argument. If presented with an ideal opprotunity to discuss the matter with a woman who was wearing the veil because she was making a conscious choice without absolutely any outside pressure including family, I would happily take it. Presenting the case of using clothing as a tool of oppression does not also make you an oppressor. The choice to wear such clothing is still there, however, the requirement to wear them at all times should not be.

Also, I do agree with the fact that photo identification, government buildings and tasks such as driving should not have people wearing concealing clothing present.